Riker's actions in "Up the Long Ladder"

[flandry84]

I'm Irish,so I watch this episode through my fingers anyway.

Put yourself in Riker's position.In the unlikely event of meeting your own clone,would you kill it out of hand?

This episode always bothered me as I think it makes Riker and Pulaski as murderers.
And the oirish accents too.......

 

[KyleCHaight]

It is true that Riker was wholly responsible for Remmick's death in "Conspiracy." If you watch the scene, it's is clearly Riker's phaser that blasts Remmick in the head, causing it to explode. However, I believe that would fall under justifiable homicide, given an investigation into the matter; Riker and Picard clearly saw at least one parasite enter Remmick's body and it had been proven at that point that the parasites were a threat.

However, the clone-killing is really a gray area. Since it was Riker's DNA, even though the clone wasn't growing inside of him, I think upon further deliberation that it was not unlike a modern-day abortion. Since there was no partner involved in the creation of the Riker-clone; it was all purely his DNA, I really think that it was Riker's decision whether or not the unmatured clone lived or died. And since he got Pulaski's permission before blasting hers, again, same deal.

I think there's a deleted scene from "Star Trek: Nemesis" where Picard is discussing his own clone, Shinzon, and says "it's as if part of me had been stolen." I'm sure Riker and Pulaski felt the same way about their clones and believed the only way to reclaim their identity was to kill (or murder, if you will) their dopplegangers.

 

[David cgc]

Timo said:
Picard shot his "Time Squared" clone in cold blood, too.

That was some awful writing. It seems like Picard just walked in and gunned future-Picard down for the hell of it. They have a "stun" setting, asshole!

 

[Vulcanian]

Timo said:
Shouldn't they be punished, then?

I mean, if self defense is illegal, you go to jail for it (or pay fines, or die, or get a wedgie, depending on the law), whether it is necessary or not.

Yet Riker didn't receive any punishment from what he did, at least not as long as the cameras were rolling. So either it was legal for anybody in the Federation to do what Riker did, or it was legal for Riker specifically to do this, or the entire crew of the Enterprise are a bunch of criminals...

Timo Saloniemi

Ahh... I see what you're saying. Here's what I think now: The clones should have never been created in the first place

Riker should have never killed the clones. Clones created would be taken to a facility and never allowed to reproduce. The people responsible for cloning them should stand trial.

 

[Sec31Mike]

If someone is illegally cloned I believe it is well within their rights to destroy the clone.

If that clone were to commit a crime, who would they come after after gathering the forensic evidence?

 

[flandry84]

/\
Using that logic ,my twin brother and I should have a death-match ASAP.

 

[Timo]

Were the Trek universe created by Heinlein instead of Roddenberry, yes, this would follow.

However, I think we could cut our Roddenberrian heroes some slack with having one or two philosophical-religious hang-ups we might not recognize or easily associate with. They need not be rigorously logical about everything: they can still have a nudity taboo, or a deep hatred of cloning, while otherwise practicing the equality, goodwill and righteousness they preach.

It's sort of interesting that the clone-hating sentiment carries through so many episodes, with "A Man Alone" basically the only bit where the society protects the clone. Perhaps the law against killing one's own clone is a recent one, and very necessary because 78% of UFP citizens polled in 2365 were in favor of clone-killing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Charlie Kelly]

I never liked the ending to this episode. There is no justification; they murdered two human beings in cold blood. They had no more right to kill their clones than an identical twin has to kill his or her twin.

Charlie