Right wing cultures in Star Trek

[Peg Org]

I was just reading a thread from 2008 about why right wingers, but esp. neo-cons, like or
can even stomach the Star Trek universe but no one mentioned the cultures with strong
right wing, or ultra right wing ideologies. It seems every culture the Federation has a war,
or skirmishes with, have some element of that way of thinking. The Ferengi represent
the right's ideas on money being all-important, and ignoring rights in the persuit of it.
The Klingons are a militaristic, hunter-oriented people that see weakness or mercy as
intolerable.The Cardassians a military-run people with a strict, ruthless justice system
(see the connections?), the Romulans an insular, xenophobic militaristic people... I think
I made my point. Sure, the shows have some members of these people go against the
traditional ways of their people, but that only makes them more Federation-like, ie,
more compassionate, more understanding, inclusive and peace loving.

So, am I not understanding the shows at all? Are these cultures actually left leaning and
my bleeding heart is making me see it incorrectly? Sure, I get fiscal conservatism, and I
even agree with it in some ways, but social or religious conservatism and esp. the neo-con
movement that put Trump in office seems to be on the side of these cultures waging war on
the weak, compassion-obsessed Federation.

 

[publiusr]

Voyager seemed to bump into them a lot.

 

[Awesome Possum]

There was that Nazi planet too. Sorry, Alt-Right planet.

 

[Tesophius]

You're making some odd conclusions, I'm a neo-con and I'm vehemently opposed to Trump and everything he stands for. I love the Star Trek universe and its ideals. Where's the conflict?

 

[GabyBee]

I'm a neo-con

I love the Star Trek universe and its ideals. Where's the conflict?

Uhhhh.... you know, the whole notion that capitalism is flawed, and it was discarded as an economic principle once humanity had moved past its metaphorical adolescence?

 

[Spot261]

You mean there's no money in the federation?

 

[Relayer1]

Yeah, I've always seen the Federation as a kind of democratic socialist utopia (from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs) and the 'other' major races as being reflections of the less attractive traits of humanity.

Can it really be read otherwise ?

 

[ichab]

Not everyone watches T.V or movies to see their political beliefs confirmed. Many just want to be simply entertained. As William Shatner once said "It's just a T.V show."

 

[Tesophius]

Uhhhh.... you know, the whole notion that capitalism is flawed, and it was discarded as an economic principle once humanity had moved past its metaphorical adolescence?

It's never been closely established what kind of an economy flourishes in the Federation. It's conceivable that it is unique on different planets or even regions. In any case, I don't purport to know what the best economic model in the distant future is going to be.

I favor regulated capitalism, or status-quo, if you will, because it creates conditions for an incredible rate of technologic development, which, in turn, had been the single most important factor in improving the quality of life and eliminating poverty en masse globally. Once we get through the technological Singularity, a superior model might be discovered. It's hard to begin to imagine economy of say 100 years from now, let alone that of the 23rd century.

 

[suarezguy]

It seems every culture the Federation has a war,
or skirmishes with, have some element of that way of thinking. The Ferengi represent
the right's ideas on money being all-important, and ignoring rights in the persuit of it.
The Klingons are a militaristic, hunter-oriented people that see weakness or mercy as
intolerable.The Cardassians a military-run people with a strict, ruthless justice system

Well, modern Trek and especially DS9 tried to make the Ferengi and Klingons pretty likeable and respectable and DS9 even tried to make the Cardassians understandable if not likeable (I think it went a bit too far in that).

the Romulans an insular, xenophobic militaristic people...

You could argue that the Vulcans (in practice) are somewhat xenophobia or at least absolutely are pretty insular too and they're very popular in the fandom and influential in the Federation.

Uhhhh.... you know, the whole notion that capitalism is flawed, and it was discarded as an economic principle once humanity had moved past its metaphorical adolescence?

I would hope a lot of conservatives would be willing to admit capitalism and democracy were flawed in the sense of not perfect or utopian and yet still maintain they were better than the alternative economic and governmental systems. Trek remains pretty supportive of liberalism and liberal democracy and rarely outright hostile to capitalism. It generally admits that its characters and society are in the privileged position of being at least pretty much post-scarcity and so feeling disconnected from modern economic systems and the competition between them.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

You mean there's no money in the federation?

*whispers* You mean they don't get paid??

It's never been closely established what kind of an economy flourishes in the Federation. It's conceivable that it is unique on different planets or even regions. In any case, I don't purport to know what the best economic model in the distant future is going to be.

Well, you sure never see anyone in the Federation worrying about paychecks, basic living expenses, medical expenses, etc. Grandpa Sisko runs a Creole restaurant in New Orleans and there is never anything mentioned about money, balance sheets, or any evidence at all that he has to turn a profit or break even to keep the place running.

We also can't pretend the writers overlooked it, because the Ferengi sure talk about profits and balance sheets all the time, and evidently the Klingons still run something like a capitalist system, too. (Mostly basing that on "The House of Quark.")

I favor regulated capitalism, or status-quo, if you will, because it creates conditions for an incredible rate of technologic development, which, in turn, had been the single most important factor in improving the quality of life and eliminating poverty en masse globally. Once we get through the technological Singularity, a superior model might be discovered. It's hard to begin to imagine economy of say 100 years from now, let alone that of the 23rd century.

I think the mistake people make is in thinking capitalism itself is humane or naturally leads to any kind of humane outcome. It doesn't. This is why strict regulation is necessary if one is going to have a capitalist system at all. After all, we don't have the working standards we do today because it was good for capitalism--we have them because people fought and died for them, because people wanted to be treated humanely or they would not do the work at all.

The Federation appears to operate on different principles altogether: virtually unlimited energy and resources mean that scarcity is a thing of the past, so no one is "required" to work for a living. The best and brightest seem to join Starfleet, while everyone else does a little or as much as they want with regard to their own passions.

Also, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that Singularity.

 

[suarezguy]

Yeah, I've always seen the Federation as a kind of democratic socialist utopia (from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs) and the 'other' major races as being reflections of the less attractive traits of humanity.

Can it really be read otherwise ?

Well there's at least some diversity of attitudes and probably policies among the Federation, particularly the Vulcans. Additionally, the Ferengi seemed to be fairly vibrant despite some deep flaws (particularly exploitation and sexism-discrimination, though they were making big reforms and improvements by the end). The Bajorans also seemed to be presented as having flaws and yet as people that probably shouldn't assimilate into the Federation at least not too quickly.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Star Trek Socialism: Made possible largely by the efforts of a capitalist who was trying to get rich and retire to an island full of naked women.

Kind of like those rich nutballs trying to mine the asteroids and put power stations in space and drop colonies on Mars?

 

[GabyBee]

 

[Tesophius]

I do agree with the libertarian society image, but here's a more accurate portrayal of a socialist society in the 23rd century:

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I do agree with the libertarian society image, but here's a more accurate portrayal of a socialist society in the 23rd century:

No bread line if infinite bread, friendo.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

As Robert Maxwell mentioned above, because the Federation seems to have a post-scarcity economy, with super-efficient replicators and limitless energy, it really bears about as much resemblance to "modern-day" Socialism as Batman does to me.

 

[chappaai]

Painting an entire group of people as predatory, militaristic, and xenophobic is extremely unfair and completely incorrect. You're completely missing the point of conservatism if that's what you think of all of us. I'm a conservative and classical liberal, and the 2 ideologies are completely compatible. There's so much complexity to Star Trek, and that's part of what I love about it.

Star Trek was always an aspirational universe. "Look where we could be in the future". To me, the 24th century is what it is because of technological innovation that transformed society. And that transformation made socialism actually sustainable. Replicators can make anything you need. Transporters can move you anywhere you need to go. The only way to actually develop those technologies is in a capitalist economy, since innovation is more highly valued and rewarded. In some ways, I like element of socialism as an ideology, but its economically unsustainable without a balance of capitalism.

The problem with socialism in the modern world is that its fundamentally immoral. The government gets to take the money I've worked hard for and gives it to someone else. In any other context, someone taking money/property from one person is called stealing. Charitable giving is completely different, since its my choice to give. And IMO, everyone has a moral and ethical obligation to engage in charitable giving.

Star Trek has always had a bit of an anti-communist streak to it, whether its "The Omega Glory" or the 24th Century fight against the Borg. They all look the same. They're all driven by the same goal. They must wipe out all individuality in service to the Collective. Star Trek is about individuality in so many ways, and how that must be preserved. And that is a very conservative POV. This article goes into this in more detail.

On the topic of the Cardassians. They were meant as representations of the Nazis. Contrary to common belief, Nazi philosophy was one of socialism. Germans has to submit any personal interests in service to the common good. It was pro-worker and lower class and subscribed to the idea of class struggle. Social policies included a national labor service, national healthcare, & guaranteed pensions. Farmers couldn't sell their land and marketing boards controlled prices & production. Private property ownership was only ok if it was in service to the national good. Hitler himself said "every activity and every need of every individual will be regulated by the collectivity represented by the party" and that "there are no longer any free realms in which the individual belongs to himself".

The races you mention, Cardassians, Klingons, Ferengi and Romulans all represent facets of humanity. Cardassians represent the dangers of National Socialism. Klingons, in many ways, represent feudalism and militarism, both the good and bad of those philosophies. Ferengi represent the dangers of pure capitalism, unchecked by compassion. Pure capitalism is bad. Pure socialism is as well. Successful economies must have a balance of both capitalism and socialism. Romulans were modeled on the Ancient Romans.

 

[Tesophius]

Well, you sure never see anyone in the Federation worrying about paychecks, basic living expenses, medical expenses, etc. Grandpa Sisko runs a Creole restaurant in New Orleans and there is never anything mentioned about money, balance sheets, or any evidence at all that he has to turn a profit or break even to keep the place running.

We also can't pretend the writers overlooked it, because the Ferengi sure talk about profits and balance sheets all the time, and evidently the Klingons still run something like a capitalist system, too. (Mostly basing that on "The House of Quark.")

I wouldn't expect anyone worrying about paychecks, basic living expenses, medical expenses, etc. in a technologically advanced society. The age of abundance is only decades away, so that's actually the likeliest of projections that far in into the future.

I think the mistake people make is in thinking capitalism itself is humane or naturally leads to any kind of humane outcome. It doesn't. This is why strict regulation is necessary if one is going to have a capitalist system at all. After all, we don't have the working standards we do today because it was good for capitalism--we have them because people fought and died for them, because people wanted to be treated humanely or they would not do the work at all.

Capitalism is efficient and regulated capitalism is humane. Ever since we, as a civilization, found the right balance, we've been on a velocious path of development as a species and of the consequent eradication of poverty. The goal now is to maintain and preserve this status quo and we will reach this (see below) before this century is over.

The Federation appears to operate on different principles altogether: virtually unlimited energy and resources mean that scarcity is a thing of the past, so no one is "required" to work for a living. The best and brightest seem to join Starfleet, while everyone else does a little or as much as they want with regard to their own passions.

Also, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that Singularity.

That's a sound decision, the human record for holding breath is 22 minutes and 22 seconds. You might succeed with artificial ventilation though, but that's cheating!

 

[GabyBee]

Capitalism is efficient and regulated capitalism is humane. Ever since we, as a civilization, found the right balance, we've been on a velocious path of development as a species and of the consequent eradication of poverty. The goal now is to maintain and preserve this status quo and we will reach this (see below) before this century is over.