Richard Hoagland's book DARK MISSION

[GodThingFormerly]

voggmo said:
Sagan knew him, worked with him, this ( rather obviously), means Hoagland was involved with science.

Sagan also knew Richard Nixon. That doesn't mean that Richard Nixon was himself a scientist.

Now the fact the Sagan didn't like him has nothing to do with whether or not Hoagland was a scientist.

You claimed upthread that Sagan and Hoagland "did science together". What was the result of their collaboration? A journal paper? A NASA report? A doodle on an Arby's napkin?

My apologies for not being able to present a more simplistic, say 3rd grader level presentation for you.

TerriO, I shall let you do the honors.

More on Sagan...

http://www.amazon.ca/Demon-Haunted-World-Carl-Sagan/dp/0345409469

Sagan comes across as a "killjoy", who is bitter about the seemingly innocuous pleasures that many Americans indulge themselves in (Star Trek,

...and that has what do to with the subject of this thread, exactly?

TGT

 

[voggmo]

Sagan also knew Richard Nixon. That doesn't mean that Richard Nixon was himself a scientist.

Um, he didn't do scientific work with Nixon. Boy, do I "really" have to cover that with you? Amazing.


Let's be clear, the negative innuendo & personal attack started with you TGT. Terrio, I'll let you do the honors.



"your posts in this thread are becoming even more incoherent than usual. On the one hand you invoke Sagan's supposed relationship with Hoagland in an attempt to give the latter an aura of scientific legitimacy. However, after I pointed out Sagan's obvious contempt for Hoagland - in an interview you linked to - you shift gears and accuse Sagan of being not only an "ass", but also a brain-damaged"


Brain damaged. Clear demonstration of false claim, never said it.

 

[TerriO]

voggmo said:
Well sorry for your poor ability to absorb the simple & obvious.
...
My apologies for not being able to present a more simplistic, say 3rd grader level presentation for you.

Warning for flaming. Comments to PM.

TGT, you've come dangerously close to the line, too. Topic drift is one thing, what appears to be happening here is something else entirely.

Let's get back to the subject of the thread, please. And no, it's not Carl Sagan. Thank you.

 

[voggmo]

Par for the course, warn the victim, not the perp.

I do believe Hoagland was the subject at hand, & his credentials have been the current direction of the thread. Particularly denigrating them or even attempts to forward the idea he has none.

Well, it is amusing to see that some feel he is fair game, but not Sagan. That is known as double standard. Sagan's has plenty of admirers, I don't happen to be one of em. He ridicules things he has no experience with.

 

[aridas sofia]

Hoagland is to scientific inquiry as Mark Lane is to political inquiry. That is, he stirs the pot of public opinion with extraordinary claims, leaving it to other, more informed and now-motivated persons to clear up his mess with solid research.

 

[Mysterion]

Just received my copy of Dark Mission in this morning's mail, and have taken a cursory glance during my lunch break. There is some Mars/Cydonia stuff, but mostly, it seems to be just a refresher and some updating since "Monuments of Mars" was published (if you want to go further in-depth, you'll still need to read his earlier book).

am intrigued by some of the photos, especially the "Data's Head" object on the moon's surface (color fig. 28, fig. 12-17), and the "martian skull" (figs 12-15 and 12-16). Also of interest are is fig. 4-26 which Hoagland/Bara say shows a domed enclosure on the moon. I don't see that, but to me it looks like some sort of outgassing from the lunar surface, which in of itself would be a pretty interesting development!

Looking forward to sitting down with this book for a few hours tonight after work.

OT Brainstorm: what if the lunar artifacts and the Cydonia (Mars) structures did indeed exist in the ST continuity? Leftovers from the Preservers maybe? Gotta be a couple good stories there.

We now return to the regularly scheduled acrimony....

 

[Lieut. Arex]

What would it cost Hoagland and his supporters to finance a simple lunar orbiter in an effort to prove their contentions? It'd be "their" data, not filtered by the NASA Freemasons or whoever is supposed to be running things. Surely the Russians or Chinese would cash his check to launch the probe. If the Planetary Society can try it with their solar sails, why not Hoagland?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Lieut. Arex said:
What would it cost Hoagland and his supporters to finance a simple lunar orbiter in an effort to prove their contentions?

It depends. The shoestring 1998 NASA Lunar Prospector mission cost $63 million. The 2003 ESA SMART-1 mission cost €110 million. The vastly more ambitious 2007 JAXA Kaguya (Selene) mission, on the other hand, appears to have been budgeted at $570 million.

TGT

 

[Lieut. Arex]

So he'd best sell t-shirts too at the bake sale. Or find a suitably sympatico multimillionaire.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Lieut. Arex said:
So he'd best sell t-shirts too at the bake sale. Or find a suitably sympatico multimillionaire.

...or he could hire Tim Brazeal of TrekUnited.com infamy to organize an online fund-raising campaign.

TGT

 

[voggmo]

"Hoagland is to scientific inquiry as Mark Lane is to political inquiry. That is, he stirs the pot of public opinion with extraordinary claims, leaving it to other, more informed and now-motivated persons to clear up his mess with solid research."


Europa excepted that is. & many of his ideas are beyond the capacity of current technology & ability level of the "more informed" to clear up at this stage of the game. Speculative stuff etc. & at least he has the scientific curiosity to investigate Mars-Cydonia, as opposed to the lethargic apathy of NASA.

& exactly WHY would NASA have him lecture their scientists if he were either a non scientist, or a kook? Makes not sense as the Hulk would say.