Rewatched 2.9 The Measure of a Man

[Zaminhon]

I had forgotten what a condescending douchebag Picard was to the JAG officer in that episode. I don't think there was enough backstory to justify his attitude toward her, but man, does he hold a grudge. I thought that it was totally out of character and unprofessional of him to keep berating her of her legal duties, and I'm surprised she took it.

Other than that, it was a pretty good episode. The court scenes were pretty well thought out. I particularly liked Riker going to the jugular and switching Data off in a dramatic way.

 

[Forbin]

And I love how Frakes acted that. His anguish at having to do it was heartbreaking.

 

[Scotchy]

Then again, Phillipa did call Data a toaster and arbitrarily say he should go in for the experimental refit. Maybe she was as nasty indicting him for the Stargazer. Picard could be laboring in a dilithium mine instead of polishing his noggin on the bridge of a galaxy class starship if she'd had her way.

 

[Karzak]

I thought Picard made it pretty clear why he still held that grudge. He and Phillipa Luvois were lovers at the time of the Stargazer court martial, and even though it was her duty to go after him, his belief was that she actually enjoyed destroying his reputation during those proceedings, which she clarifies, but which he calls her out on with razor-sharp accuracy:

PICARD:
My God. Phillipa Louvois. And back in uniform. It's been ten years, but seeing you again like this makes it seem like fifty. If we weren't around all these people, do you know what I would like to do?

PHILLIPA:
Bust a chair across my teeth?

PICARD:
After that.

PHILLIPA:
Ain't love wonderful.

PICARD:
So, what are you doing out here?

PHILLIPA:
I am in charge of the Twenty third Sector JAG office. We're brand new. I have no staff but one terrified little Ensign. Hopefully we can make some good law out here.

PICARD:
Anything is possible. So you came back to Starfleet.

PHILLIPA:
Still the most exciting and worthwhile place to be.

PICARD:
You had no reason to leave.

PHILLIPA:
They forced me out.

PICARD: No. That was your own damn stubborn pride.

PHILLIPA:
When I prosecuted you in the Stargazer court martial, I was doing my job.

PICARD:
Oh, you did more than your job. You enjoyed it.

PHILLIPA:
Not true! A court martial is standard procedure when a ship is lost. I was doing my duty as an officer of the Judge Advocate General.

PICARD:
You always enjoyed the adversarial process more than arriving at the truth. Well, I hope you've learned a little wisdom along the way.

PHILLIPA: You know, I never thought I would say this, but it's good to see you again. It brings a sense of order and stability to my universe to know that you're still a pompous ass. And a damn sexy man.

...that whole bit about "enjoyed the adversarial process more than arriving at the truth" is the central arc for her story in the episode while they again find themselves in a courtroom, this time trying to decide if Data is a person with rights. Picard and Riker believe so and Luvois doesn't seem to have any compunction about setting Picard and his Number One against each other, further proving Picard's point.

 

[Zaminhon]

The part that comes next, "Well, I hope you've learned a little wisdom along the way", and that sentiment repeated in different words at least twice more, sounds overly pompous and condescending to my ears, particularly after 10 years.

 

[Kor]

Well, I've always seen Picard as an overly pompous and condescending kind of guy in general.

Another thing about this episode: Is there any precedent in real-world navies for the practice of using officers with no specialization in jurisprudence as legal counsel? I know the story necessitated it, but that had me scratching my head a little the last time I watched the episode.

Kor

 

[Karzak]

I don't know about any real life examples, but it sure seemed ok to use in "The Menagerie."

 

[Ghrakh]

I don't think there was enough backstory to justify his attitude toward her,

Maybe? I had no problem with it. Use your imagination. Not every "backstory" needs to be shown.

 

[Kor]

I don't know about any real life examples, but it sure seemed ok to use in "The Menagerie."

Um, nobody served as a representing attorney in "The Menagerie."

Kor

 

[Zaminhon]

I don't think there was enough backstory to justify his attitude toward her,

Maybe? I had no problem with it. Use your imagination. Not every "backstory" needs to be shown.

No, but actions need to be justified within a story. Anyway, I thought he went overboard in his condemnation of her abilities.

 

[Marsden]

Why would a "Court Martial" be standard procedure when a ship is lost? A hearing, sure, but a court martial every time?

No wonder Matt Decker flew into the planet killer!

 

[Terok Nor]

Picard and Luvois being lovers gives a certain duality to the title of this episode...

 

[Karzak]

I don't know about any real life examples, but it sure seemed ok to use in "The Menagerie."

Um, nobody served as a representing attorney in "The Menagerie."

Kor

No, but Kirk was utilized to be one of the two required senior officers as prosecutors against Spock because there was no one else available, just as Riker was utlized against Data because no one else was available.

 

[RAMA]

I thought Picard made it pretty clear why he still held that grudge. He and Phillipa Luvois were lovers at the time of the Stargazer court martial, and even though it was her duty to go after him, his belief was that she actually enjoyed destroying his reputation during those proceedings, which she clarifies, but which he calls her out on with razor-sharp accuracy:

PICARD:
My God. Phillipa Louvois. And back in uniform. It's been ten years, but seeing you again like this makes it seem like fifty. If we weren't around all these people, do you know what I would like to do?

PHILLIPA:
Bust a chair across my teeth?

PICARD:
After that.

PHILLIPA:
Ain't love wonderful.

PICARD:
So, what are you doing out here?

PHILLIPA:
I am in charge of the Twenty third Sector JAG office. We're brand new. I have no staff but one terrified little Ensign. Hopefully we can make some good law out here.

PICARD:
Anything is possible. So you came back to Starfleet.

PHILLIPA:
Still the most exciting and worthwhile place to be.

PICARD:
You had no reason to leave.

PHILLIPA:
They forced me out.

PICARD: No. That was your own damn stubborn pride.

PHILLIPA:
When I prosecuted you in the Stargazer court martial, I was doing my job.

PICARD:
Oh, you did more than your job. You enjoyed it.

PHILLIPA:
Not true! A court martial is standard procedure when a ship is lost. I was doing my duty as an officer of the Judge Advocate General.

PICARD:
You always enjoyed the adversarial process more than arriving at the truth. Well, I hope you've learned a little wisdom along the way.

PHILLIPA: You know, I never thought I would say this, but it's good to see you again. It brings a sense of order and stability to my universe to know that you're still a pompous ass. And a damn sexy man.

...that whole bit about "enjoyed the adversarial process more than arriving at the truth" is the central arc for her story in the episode while they again find themselves in a courtroom, this time trying to decide if Data is a person with rights. Picard and Riker believe so and Luvois doesn't seem to have any compunction about setting Picard and his Number One against each other, further proving Picard's point.

Yes indeed, there was the small matter of her perceived overzealous nature with the Stargazer hearing.

 

[Amaraen]

I think that since Phillipa was "forced out", then it wasn't just a subjective view of Jean-Luc. She obviously must have taken things too far, probably similar to Admiral Satie from "The Drumhead" (though not that crazy, but rather she probably stepped over some lines).

I believe that Jean-Luc was being sincere when he said "I hope you've learned a little wisdom along the way". Above he shows that he respects her, and this was a comment about learning from what caused her to be forced out of Starfleet.

 

[Paradise City]

Now I haven't seen this episode in awhile so I maybe misremembering it. But I thought that aspect was done well. It was clear to me watching it, Picard was condescending in an effort to compensate from being surprised and on the backfoot. I see that with reasonably proud people who are caught off guard or if you get under their skin.

Louvois, in her turn, assumed he'd be cool in that he was exonerated and didn't realise how deep she cut into him and seemed a bit shocked at his hurtful reaction in her own right.

It was well written in this part in the sense that Picard can be thrown in certain circumstances. He's not invulnerable in respect to his personal life. I suppose that first season time episode with Janice showed that as well.

I enjoyed this episode overall and Frakes acted well too.

 

[at Quark's]

Philippa: It brings a sense of order and stability to my universe to know that you're still a pompous ass.

As a long-time viewer that rewatches TNG every now and then, I have the same sentiment (without the 'damn sexy man' addendum, though)

 

[2takesfrakes]

Sir Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and Jonathan Frakes all seem very interested in the material and their performances are solid. The script is lean and even Bruce Maddox has just enough complexity, so that we can at least understand his viewpoint and not feel that he need to be ripped to shreds, or have his life destroyed. When he and Data have their words together, after the trial, we're allowed, even encouraged, to hope to see him on the show, again.

I like how Guinan is put to task, here, as the one spelling out what's really at stake. It seems like it's going to get preachy, or something, but it doesn't and I'm glad about that. And what Riker is put through and that incredible show of friendship at the end ... I always break out in my big ol' Tom Sawyer grin, I can't help myself, about it. I LOVE this series and "Measure of a Man" is just one of a million reasons why.

 

[woodstock]

This episode has a lot of great moments, as far as Riker, the moment he realizes how to craft his argument (the 'I've got it!' moment) and then the faltering smile (his "big ol' Tom Sawyer grin", thanks 2takesfrakes) when he realizes its implications is one of the best subtle moments of the whole series. It's more impactful than expressing his anguish directly to Data at the end.

 

[Seven of Five]

This is one of my favourite episodes. I watched it a week ago and even though I've lost track of how many times I've seen it, I still get goosepimples.