Revisiting the Breen

[Orphalesion]

and as multiple people have already pointed out, it was laughable to state that no one's ever seen the Breen when Kira, Dukat, etc. ran around in Breen suits. Were the suits just sitting on a shelf somewhere?

So we agree it was laughable? Then I don't understand what you want from me?

All I said that if the Breen ever show up, then i want them to show us what they look like. I didn't say I particularly wanted them back, I just said, I found the whole "oooooo nobody as ever seen what they look liek under the helmet" stupid.

 

[Dukhat]

So we agree it was laughable? Then I don't understand what you want from me?

Who's saying I want something from you? I'm just pointing out that I feel that it would be a pointless endeavor to develop them further because they had nothing going for them in the first place, other than the mystery of what they look like. And 20+ years after the last time was saw the Breen, if someone new wanted to show what they looked like, it's simply not going to have the same effect as it would have 20 years ago, and it definitely wouldn't be something jaw-dropping or head-exploding. Like with the TOS Klingons to TNG Klingons, you'd basically be creating a new race from scratch and ignoring what was there before.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps Breen suits have some kind of failsafe device that vaporizes the wearer upon death, so nobody who opens one of their suits can ever see who's inside.

 

[XCV330]

I only want to see them again if we get to see what's under those helmets.
I never liked that whole "it's a myteriez, we'll never tell hurhurhur" trope, no matter what fandom.

The Breen are a species of Carrie Fisher clones but made of camphor. They sublime into vapor as soon the the seal is broken on their helmets.

Honestly never showing the Breen was interesting for about an episode and after that it just came off as a cheap trick to avoid having to develop even more forehead prostheses for yet another species. I qould have loved for them to have been six legged or related to those flying-flapjack things from TOS, anything but the princess leia disguise.

Any anyone who says that DOESN'T resemble the ROTJ costume are really trying hard to see five lights. The custome designer Robert Blackman apparently said (I don't have the reference any longer) that it was a homage to the Boushh costume.

 

[somebuddyX]

Perhaps Breen suits have some kind of failsafe device that vaporizes the wearer upon death, so nobody who opens one of their suits can ever see who's inside.

 

[YouAreDooomed]

All we learned about the Breen in every episode they were featured in was that they were just generic cardboard villains used as a plot device to make the Dominion more powerful. They had no personality to speak of, nothing about their culture was stated beyond tidbits of hearsay, and the only thing that made them even marginally interesting was that we didn't know what they looked like, which they played up to death.

Nah, there is a wee bit more. The Breen are warlike, interested in expanding their territory, some small hints indicate they got an unpleasant history with the Romulans, there is the mystery/ running gag concerning their home planet usually described as a frozen rock until Weyoun states it is actually not, and they don't tell anyone why refrigeration suits are worn anyway. "Full of surprises."

I definitely understand where you're coming from but expecting explanations for all that is the ultimate pipe dream.

I'm pretty sure those comments are supposed to be ironic, this part alone...

I need it to include an explanation [...] why the Enterprise bridge in SNW is not built out of cardboard

gives it away, no?

They came up with different-looking Klingons for Discovery. Why? Damned if I know. Just because? Seems so arbitrary to me but that's the kind of stuff that they do.

They probably just wanted the Klingons to look more alien.

They came up with the spore drive. Something that wasn't mentioned in any later Trek. huh?

Because everyone and their mother in the ST universe can barely open their mouths without mentioning the Excelsior's transwarp drive, the soliton wave propulsion, the *Genesis Device, and a ton of other technologies or events (from the 23rd century).
Why would you expect mentions of a classified, failed experiment (from the Federation's point of view)?

*Well, Genesis gets a single, very brief reference in VOY, but in hundreds of episodes before (and after) there was nothing, not even when a scientist revives a dead star with protomatter in DS9.

Good storytelling would make it all fit together.

No, it would only make it contrived and silly like the Klingon Augments. Sometimes reality simply retcons stuff like outdated computers, cheap sets, no female captains (TOS), limited budget for make-up etc., and it's just better to accept the outside-of-universe reasons.

the info about their ships being organic wasn't true (although that was probably due to an oversight on the writer's part)

Since when? Tuvok says they have "organic-based vessels" - and we don't even know what exactly this means - so not necessarily EVERY Breen ship is organic, while only one ship class is known that actually may be (partially) organic, it's not like they all have to look like giant squids or something. Perhaps only the inner structure is made of o. material, perhaps the outer hull is but appears to be metallic, perhaps their military doesn't even use them in the first place...

 

[Dukhat]

Nah, there is a wee bit more. The Breen are warlike, interested in expanding their territory, some small hints indicate they got an unpleasant history with the Romulans, there is the mystery/ running gag concerning their home planet usually described as a frozen rock until Weyoun states it is actually not, and they don't tell anyone why refrigeration suits are worn anyway. "Full of surprises."

That was the problem. Any tidbit you learned about them, such as their planet actually being a paradise, or why they wanted to occupy Romulus after the war, was never expanded upon. They instead just came up with more rumors to say about them, but never had any intention of actually developing the things they mentioned. After a while, you realize that it's all BS: The writers aren't going to give you any kind of payoff because it's all being done to give the Breen a false sense of importance, when the reality is that they're nothing more than a plot device to move the story along.

Tuvok says they have "organic-based vessels" - and we don't even know what exactly this means - so not necessarily EVERY Breen ship is organic, while only one ship class is known that actually may be (partially) organic, it's not like they all have to look like giant squids or something. Perhaps only the inner structure is made of o. material, perhaps the outer hull is but appears to be metallic, perhaps their military doesn't even use them in the first place...

Yes, we do know what it means. It means that their ships are organic, like Vorlon vessels or Gomtuu. But that's not what we saw. We saw ships made out of metal. And we saw a ton of them. And they all looked exactly the same. And not a single person in DS9 pointed out that the ships were organic. Because they weren't organic.

 

[Vger23]

The Breen:

I think future iterations of Star Trek have more important things to dive into.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Breen are the Jenny Piccolo of Star Trek aliens.

 

[YouAreDooomed]

That was the problem. Any tidbit you learned about them, such as their planet actually being a paradise, or why they wanted to occupy Romulus after the war, was never expanded upon. They instead just came up with more rumors to say about them, but never had any intention of actually developing the things they mentioned. After a while, you realize that it's all BS: The writers aren't going to give you any kind of payoff because it's all being done to give the Breen a false sense of importance, when the reality is that they're nothing more than a plot device to move the story along.

Yeah, wouldn't claim there were any real developments or payoffs, but at least a few more attributes than unknown faces. If the Breen return, writers may build upon them.

Yes, we do know what it means.

No, we don't. let's just skip the "my headcanon is true because I say so" game.

It means that their ships are organic, like Vorlon vessels or Gomtuu. But that's not what we saw. We saw ships made out of metal. And we saw a ton of them. And they all looked exactly the same.

For the record, full quote from VOY:

TUVOK: Starfleet has encountered species that use organic-based vessels. The Breen, for example.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/321.htm

It means they have ships - no one says ALL their ships - that are completely or partially organic. "Organic-based" may or may not imply giant, living, Gomtuu-like living organisms, it could refer to the inner structure possibly including the computer and power distribution systems or something else.
Again, we saw a ton of ships of ONE class, and the apparent (or ostensible) metal could in fact be some kind of organic armour. The more or less organic Breen vessels might also be exclusively civilian. Hell, it's even possible those vessels Tuvok mentions get withdrawn from service by the outbreak of the Dominion War.

And not a single person in DS9 pointed out that the ships were organic.

Proves nothing.

 

[Dukhat]

This is a fictional tv show. The universe is completely at the whims of the writers. When that Voyager writer wrote that Breen vessels are organic, they were organic. When we saw the ships in DS9, they weren’t. So either the DS9 producers forgot about that line from Voyager, or they just didn’t care. The bottom line is that Breen ships are not organic. It’s not head canon, it’s what we saw on screen. It’s your head canon to say that ‘maybe not all Breen ships are organic.’ I’m only going by what was seen on screen, which is the only evidence we have. Anything else is just speculation.

 

[YouAreDooomed]

It's like you didn't even really bother to read what I posted.

It’s your head canon to say that ‘maybe not all Breen ships are organic.’

Lol, actually, it's a perfectly logical possibility which Tuvok's very vague statement entails. Your specific interpretation is obvious fan fiction, sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

[Dukhat]

I indeed read what you posted. I found its logic to be flawed. Tuvok knew what he was talking about, because that’s what the writers wanted. If they wanted something different, they would have made him say something else. He didn’t say ‘some Breen ships are organic and some aren’t,’ he said ‘Breen ships are organic.’ Any other interpretation of his line is head canon. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Weren't Breen helmets just painted Star Wars ones? So if they bring them back it means they'll change them... which means another tedious fanwank explosion about changing alien designs on Star Trek.

Joy.

The design of the Breen was so lazy, when I heard about the Breen on TNG I had the image in my head the species would be more "Mr. Freeze" than something aped from "Star Wars". Not surprising DS9 was running out of ideas by the time that boring war was going on.

 

[Dukhat]

The design of the Breen was so lazy, when I heard about the Breen on TNG I had the image in my head the species would be more "Mr. Freeze" than something aped from "Star Wars". Not surprising DS9 was running out of ideas by the time that boring war was going on.

TNG hadn’t yet established that the Breen wore suits because their planet was cold. That didn’t happen until the 4th season of Deep Space Nine.

 

[Tuskin38]

I liked the Novel'verse explanation. But I'd rather have a unique one for canon.

 

[Nerroth]

Personally, I would lean towards having the organic component of Breen starship technology evolve over different design generations.

Say, if the Breen were a star-faring power back in the 23rd Century, I would have that era of ships use little to no organic components. Perhaps a more primitive equivalent of USS Voyager's bio-neural gel packs, at best.

For the ships we see in DS9, I'd go with a hybrid approach: the exterior of the ship still looks "metallic", but much larger portion of the "innards" of the ship would use organic technology.

Future eras of Breen starship design might see them progress further along this path, though whether or not they ever go quite as far as Species 8472 - or as the White Stars seen in another franchise - is another matter.

 

[Dukhat]

I liked the Novel'verse explanation. But I'd rather have a unique one for canon.

What was the novelverse explanation?

 

[XCV330]

organic just means it has carbon in it. doesn't mean the ships are living things. hell by that token the Space Shuttle was organic.

 

[Tuskin38]

What was the novelverse explanation?

The Breen are made up of multiple species, but to stop discrimination, they all wear identical suits to hide their species.

There's a species with a snout, so the helmet has a snout, there's a gaseous species that lives on a cold planet, so the suit has the option to be refrigerated etc.

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Breen#Subsidiary_species