That's true, even though who was the actor and what episode was it?
Revisiting the 6th Season
- Thread starter tomalak301
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That's true, even though who was the actor and what episode was it?
Memorial
When Voyager got good this season, it got really good, and I'm thinking it maybe has to do with that good one week, bad the next pattern that has plauged it so far. Memorial is another episode that ranks up there with the best of voyager, and I think I would even go as far as calling it Voyager's Inner Light. I mean Living Witness was great but it wasn't really our crew. Pathfinder was great but it really dealt with life in the Alpha Quadrent. This episode, however deals with trauma in a realistic way and asks tough questions at the end with how to deal with that Trauma. Maybe Janeway was too arbitrary in deciding for everyone, but she was convincing enough where I understood her reasons greatly. Watching the battle unfold was great, but I think the important thing to take away from this episode was the emotion and guilt that by witnessing a massacre, you're more able to remember it.
I think it's like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. There are years when it's December 7th and I sometimes forget it was Pearl Harbor day. I wasn't there so maybe that is my excuse. Each year for 9/11, I remember what I was doing, where I was, the atmosphere of that Tuesday, and everything about it. Being witness to it has just sledgehammered the day into me and it's something I won't forget. It's like this episode. The crew is witnessed to something they weren't even involved in, and the emotional impact was so strong and so deep that it was just an emotional ride the whole way through. I don't know if this is my favorite episode of the season, but it's damn close.
When Voyager got good this season, it got really good, and I'm thinking it maybe has to do with that good one week, bad the next pattern that has plauged it so far. Memorial is another episode that ranks up there with the best of voyager, and I think I would even go as far as calling it Voyager's Inner Light. I mean Living Witness was great but it wasn't really our crew. Pathfinder was great but it really dealt with life in the Alpha Quadrent. This episode, however deals with trauma in a realistic way and asks tough questions at the end with how to deal with that Trauma. Maybe Janeway was too arbitrary in deciding for everyone, but she was convincing enough where I understood her reasons greatly. Watching the battle unfold was great, but I think the important thing to take away from this episode was the emotion and guilt that by witnessing a massacre, you're more able to remember it.
I think it's like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. There are years when it's December 7th and I sometimes forget it was Pearl Harbor day. I wasn't there so maybe that is my excuse. Each year for 9/11, I remember what I was doing, where I was, the atmosphere of that Tuesday, and everything about it. Being witness to it has just sledgehammered the day into me and it's something I won't forget. It's like this episode. The crew is witnessed to something they weren't even involved in, and the emotional impact was so strong and so deep that it was just an emotional ride the whole way through. I don't know if this is my favorite episode of the season, but it's damn close.
I worked my way through the sixth season a couple of weeks ago, and I'd say I enjoyed most of it. I only watched about 10 mins or so of 'Fair Haven' and 'Spirit Folk' - I just couldn't take the Irish stereotyping. It was too much to take, and I seem to recall that when I first watched them years ago they were pretty silly episodes. I also fell asleep halfway through 'Tsunkatse' and never bothered catching up.
'Memorial' was a good one, yes. My favourites from the season were 'Barge of the Dead,' 'Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy,' 'Pathfinder,' 'Life Line,' and 'Muse.' 'One Small Step' surprised me on rewatch, I remember hating it I think because Seven kinda took over Chakotay's story. Watching it again though, it just came across as a much more sentimental piece.
'Memorial' was a good one, yes. My favourites from the season were 'Barge of the Dead,' 'Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy,' 'Pathfinder,' 'Life Line,' and 'Muse.' 'One Small Step' surprised me on rewatch, I remember hating it I think because Seven kinda took over Chakotay's story. Watching it again though, it just came across as a much more sentimental piece.
It would be interesting to know which scene it was.
And it would also be interesting to know if there were any other edited scenes with other actors invoved as well.
What's the best way to avoid spoilers for Olympics because of Bad TV coverage and poor decision making? Watch Star Trek Voyager. 
Anyway:
Tsunkatse
There is a lot to like about this one but overall it came across as WWE Smackdown meets The Running Man. We only got to see The Rock (I still can't believe he got his acting career started with Voyager but oh well) once, and it just seemed like a way to Cross Promote on UPN at the time. However, this episode is saved because of Combs and Hertzler. I think J.G. Hertzler is one of Trek's best, most underappreciated actors ever, and it was his Herogin character that made this episode work. Oh, and Jeri Ryan in the Tsunkatse uniform was dang hot.
Collective
Voyager is often accused of over exposing the borg. A lot of those accusations are true, but what about those episodes that dig deeper into Borg culture but they don't necessarily feature the all out action of a Scorpion or Dark Frontier. I'm talking about episodes like "The Omega Directive" and I'd also include this one. This was a big episode for Seven. We get to see the pupil become the teacher and I think that is outstanding character development. The borg kids were good too, even though for once I wish there wasn't a character who bites the dust in Trek because of stupidity. The first dude was an idiot and I could see why the Borg didn't want to take them back. This was the first episode we see Icheb and it's a great intro.
I still say the "good one episode bad the next" pattern is still in effect and I think the next episode is Spirit Folk. Oh, joy, back to Fair Haven.
Anyway:
Tsunkatse
There is a lot to like about this one but overall it came across as WWE Smackdown meets The Running Man. We only got to see The Rock (I still can't believe he got his acting career started with Voyager but oh well) once, and it just seemed like a way to Cross Promote on UPN at the time. However, this episode is saved because of Combs and Hertzler. I think J.G. Hertzler is one of Trek's best, most underappreciated actors ever, and it was his Herogin character that made this episode work. Oh, and Jeri Ryan in the Tsunkatse uniform was dang hot.
Collective
Voyager is often accused of over exposing the borg. A lot of those accusations are true, but what about those episodes that dig deeper into Borg culture but they don't necessarily feature the all out action of a Scorpion or Dark Frontier. I'm talking about episodes like "The Omega Directive" and I'd also include this one. This was a big episode for Seven. We get to see the pupil become the teacher and I think that is outstanding character development. The borg kids were good too, even though for once I wish there wasn't a character who bites the dust in Trek because of stupidity. The first dude was an idiot and I could see why the Borg didn't want to take them back. This was the first episode we see Icheb and it's a great intro.
I still say the "good one episode bad the next" pattern is still in effect and I think the next episode is Spirit Folk. Oh, joy, back to Fair Haven.
Well, let's see, saw part II of Equinox last night, so it's Survival Instinct tonight.
I'm skipping the duds though (The Fight and others from S-5) and Barge of the Dead tomorrow.
Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy is pretty funny, so I'll go with that.
My favorite scene is when Janeway gets momentarily mesmerized by the doctor's fantasy.
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I'm skipping the duds though (The Fight and others from S-5) and Barge of the Dead tomorrow.
Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy is pretty funny, so I'll go with that.
My favorite scene is when Janeway gets momentarily mesmerized by the doctor's fantasy.
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Spirit Folk
I watched it, wasn't impressed, let's move on. I will say one thing about it though. Through this episode, I was reminded of Moriarty from TNG, and how TNG was able to do a story like this (or should I say themes like this) in a much more adult and cool way than Voyager ever could dream. Elementary, Dear Data was a wonderful journey into the question of what if the Holograms knew who they were. Ship in the Bottle continued that theme and had Moriarty want to leave the holodeck. This episode took those questions, through 'em out the window and gave us 45 minutes of immature not funny stuff. I did like Sullivan though, but he and Janeway together were this episodes only good bits.
Ashes to Ashes
This episode suffers for one reason and one reason alone. Man I wish this was the episode that brought back Jennifer Lien as Kes. This show ignores all continuity, gives Kim a new romance (I forgot this was a Kim show) and like Tom says, Kim is always going after the unique girlfriends. In terms of Lindsey, there were some good scenes and on it's own it's not too bad. Still, I can't help but think about this series as a whole and the fact that we've never seen her before as this episodes downfall. I loved the B-plot with the Children though. Seven: "Fun will now commence"
Great Line.
I watched it, wasn't impressed, let's move on. I will say one thing about it though. Through this episode, I was reminded of Moriarty from TNG, and how TNG was able to do a story like this (or should I say themes like this) in a much more adult and cool way than Voyager ever could dream. Elementary, Dear Data was a wonderful journey into the question of what if the Holograms knew who they were. Ship in the Bottle continued that theme and had Moriarty want to leave the holodeck. This episode took those questions, through 'em out the window and gave us 45 minutes of immature not funny stuff. I did like Sullivan though, but he and Janeway together were this episodes only good bits.
Ashes to Ashes
This episode suffers for one reason and one reason alone. Man I wish this was the episode that brought back Jennifer Lien as Kes. This show ignores all continuity, gives Kim a new romance (I forgot this was a Kim show) and like Tom says, Kim is always going after the unique girlfriends. In terms of Lindsey, there were some good scenes and on it's own it's not too bad. Still, I can't help but think about this series as a whole and the fact that we've never seen her before as this episodes downfall. I loved the B-plot with the Children though. Seven: "Fun will now commence"
Great Line.
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Yeah, Ashes to Ashes is one of those episodes I never know how I feel about. The B-plot is good, fun filler for sure. The main plot though...I thought it's one of the best Harry-centred pieces in seven years, I loved the actress who played Lyndsey, and I thought the story played out well. It didn't take the course I expected knowing VOY (I was expecting it to be revealed as an alien conspiracy in the 4th act) and did a really good job with a lot of the human drama.
But like you said, it suffers solely because this character, who was supposed to have had such a close relationship with Harry for three years, comes out of nowhere and we've never heard of her before. I don't know how it would have worked with Kes because of the way she left, and obviously the Kim connection wouldn't be there, but it still felt cheap. Although in the episode's favour, it left me wishing that Lyndsey had been a recurring character years before, rather than wishing the episode just hadn't happened at all.
But like you said, it suffers solely because this character, who was supposed to have had such a close relationship with Harry for three years, comes out of nowhere and we've never heard of her before. I don't know how it would have worked with Kes because of the way she left, and obviously the Kim connection wouldn't be there, but it still felt cheap. Although in the episode's favour, it left me wishing that Lyndsey had been a recurring character years before, rather than wishing the episode just hadn't happened at all.
^
I too wish Lindsey was a recurring character becuase unlike other guest actors and actresses who have been on Voyager, I liked her energy and she was attractive. It would have been nice to see a real relationship form between Kim and Her. As for saying how Kes could have been in the show, the title could have been the same but it would have been an entirely different story and maybe not a Kim story at all. It's just one of those things where they bring back a former member of the crew, and it could have been someone we actually knew, and at the time of this episode airing, I think we all knew that Kes was coming back.
Child's Play
Going through these episodes again, I'm finding myself really liking the borg children, especially Mzati and Icheb. Given this is an Icheb story, I might as well just focus on that. I liked it. I didn't know Romo Lampkin appeared on Voyager and it was great to see him (Sheppard) here. I kind of wish the Parents had not come across as decieving though and this could have been a real emotional story but I liked the revelations, such as Icheb being used to fight the borg, and explaining what happened to the Borg Cube from "Collective". Not earth shattering, but I did enjoy it.
Good Shepherd
In rewatching this season, I was hoping there would be an episode that I might have had a change of opinion on, specifically for the better. I think this episode qualifies in that it might be my one of my favorite Janeway episodes of the Series. Here finally we see Kathryn, and not Captain, Janeway, the mother figure from the early seasons and just a starfleet officer. I'm reminded of Lower Decks from TNG with this one and it does seem like whenever Trek does a lower perspective episode featuring crewmen, they get it right. It's a shame we didn't see these people again, because the Bajoran Girl (I already forgot her name) and Tilfer had good potential to actually move forward. Also, it deals with how the crew was affected by Janeway's decision. Great stuff and probably one of the bigger surprises of the season so far.
I too wish Lindsey was a recurring character becuase unlike other guest actors and actresses who have been on Voyager, I liked her energy and she was attractive. It would have been nice to see a real relationship form between Kim and Her. As for saying how Kes could have been in the show, the title could have been the same but it would have been an entirely different story and maybe not a Kim story at all. It's just one of those things where they bring back a former member of the crew, and it could have been someone we actually knew, and at the time of this episode airing, I think we all knew that Kes was coming back.
Child's Play
Going through these episodes again, I'm finding myself really liking the borg children, especially Mzati and Icheb. Given this is an Icheb story, I might as well just focus on that. I liked it. I didn't know Romo Lampkin appeared on Voyager and it was great to see him (Sheppard) here. I kind of wish the Parents had not come across as decieving though and this could have been a real emotional story but I liked the revelations, such as Icheb being used to fight the borg, and explaining what happened to the Borg Cube from "Collective". Not earth shattering, but I did enjoy it.
Good Shepherd
In rewatching this season, I was hoping there would be an episode that I might have had a change of opinion on, specifically for the better. I think this episode qualifies in that it might be my one of my favorite Janeway episodes of the Series. Here finally we see Kathryn, and not Captain, Janeway, the mother figure from the early seasons and just a starfleet officer. I'm reminded of Lower Decks from TNG with this one and it does seem like whenever Trek does a lower perspective episode featuring crewmen, they get it right. It's a shame we didn't see these people again, because the Bajoran Girl (I already forgot her name) and Tilfer had good potential to actually move forward. Also, it deals with how the crew was affected by Janeway's decision. Great stuff and probably one of the bigger surprises of the season so far.
The Bajoran briefly reappears in (I think) "The Haunting of Deck Twelve."
Live Fast and Prosper
It's not good when everyone in this episode is as gullible as the next. Really, what was the point? What was the point of Neelix being nice but only tricking Dala that he was Nice. What was the point of the whole imposter thing or whatnot. I found myself rolling my eyes at the gullibility of everyone, except for maybe the real captain Janeway. At least the brig scene was great but was this episode really necessary?
Muse
Now this one was a pleasent surprise. We have a play within a play, and everything about it worked, especially that cool ending. There really isn't much to say about this one other than it's a great Torres episode but I really liked this alien culture. We see so many alien cultures in trek that are just boring, but so far, I count two this season (Blink of an Eye being the lats) that I actually was interested in. I liked Kallis as a character, and I didn't know Ensign Cutler (RIP Kellie) was in this episode. That was kind of cool.
It's not good when everyone in this episode is as gullible as the next. Really, what was the point? What was the point of Neelix being nice but only tricking Dala that he was Nice. What was the point of the whole imposter thing or whatnot. I found myself rolling my eyes at the gullibility of everyone, except for maybe the real captain Janeway. At least the brig scene was great but was this episode really necessary?
Muse
Now this one was a pleasent surprise. We have a play within a play, and everything about it worked, especially that cool ending. There really isn't much to say about this one other than it's a great Torres episode but I really liked this alien culture. We see so many alien cultures in trek that are just boring, but so far, I count two this season (Blink of an Eye being the lats) that I actually was interested in. I liked Kallis as a character, and I didn't know Ensign Cutler (RIP Kellie) was in this episode. That was kind of cool.
Well, it had to come eventually, and like every other episode this season, I had to watch it and give it a fair chance. Hopefully we get more dialogue going with this one since it has always been a hot topic around these parts of the BBS.
Fury
I'll preface this by saying I'm a Kes fan. One of my favorite episodes was a Kes episode (Before and After) and I think there are 2 episodes in my personal top 5 because of Jennifer Lien (The other being probably Warlord). I remember watching this episode when it aired and being absolutely angry at the writers for pretty much saying "you wanted Kes back? Because of your incessent complaining, you're getting Kes back, douchebag." Seriously, it was almost as if the writers wrote this episode as a response to all those who were a little frustrated with Lien left (including Mulgrew if I understand it right) and they said screw you. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during the episode meeting for this one.
Well, in watching it tonight, I was prepared for it. The anger has sunk in and I watched this episode with pretty much that in mind of what to expect. I still think this was a big "screw you" from the writers but I think it was also a bit of sadness in this one too. I mean there was some good stuff in this episode, ranging from Tuvok's premonitions to the ending with the holo Kes reminding the older Kes of who she was, and we even got a Mulgrew/Lien gentle moment that I always love.
It's just that the writers brought Lien back (why she wanted to do this I have no idea) and there could have been something here, just with a different plot in which Kes didn't have a personal vendetta with the crew. I mean how great would it have been for Kes and Seven to hook up for something. Both Lien and Ryan are strong actresses, and I always hate the comparison between who I like better.
Is Fury one of the worst episodes of the season, yes. It's not as bad as the episode I really didn't like this season, Virtuoso, but it still is at the bottom of the berral. Is it one of the worst episodes of the series? Probably, but there have been some pretty awful episodes that I say are worse than Fury. I can't ignore this episodes ending, which actually was a really good ending. I will say though it was still character assassination 101.
Fury
I'll preface this by saying I'm a Kes fan. One of my favorite episodes was a Kes episode (Before and After) and I think there are 2 episodes in my personal top 5 because of Jennifer Lien (The other being probably Warlord). I remember watching this episode when it aired and being absolutely angry at the writers for pretty much saying "you wanted Kes back? Because of your incessent complaining, you're getting Kes back, douchebag." Seriously, it was almost as if the writers wrote this episode as a response to all those who were a little frustrated with Lien left (including Mulgrew if I understand it right) and they said screw you. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during the episode meeting for this one.
Well, in watching it tonight, I was prepared for it. The anger has sunk in and I watched this episode with pretty much that in mind of what to expect. I still think this was a big "screw you" from the writers but I think it was also a bit of sadness in this one too. I mean there was some good stuff in this episode, ranging from Tuvok's premonitions to the ending with the holo Kes reminding the older Kes of who she was, and we even got a Mulgrew/Lien gentle moment that I always love.
It's just that the writers brought Lien back (why she wanted to do this I have no idea) and there could have been something here, just with a different plot in which Kes didn't have a personal vendetta with the crew. I mean how great would it have been for Kes and Seven to hook up for something. Both Lien and Ryan are strong actresses, and I always hate the comparison between who I like better.
Is Fury one of the worst episodes of the season, yes. It's not as bad as the episode I really didn't like this season, Virtuoso, but it still is at the bottom of the berral. Is it one of the worst episodes of the series? Probably, but there have been some pretty awful episodes that I say are worse than Fury. I can't ignore this episodes ending, which actually was a really good ending. I will say though it was still character assassination 101.
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The writers weren't saying any such thing. If you read the interview by Bryan Fuller you'd understand that the episode was meant to do something different and unexpected with Kes by showing that the powers she was so curious about overwhelmed her. Unfortunately, due to time constraints and the episode being written over Christmas break it didn't come off as they had intended.
Personally I liked the idea and I'll never quite understand fans being so rigid and overly protective of a character that they get mad if the writers do something other than what they want or expect as was the case here.
The episode isn't great but I've never felt it was the abomination many see it as. It was pretty average. I enjoyed seeing the early years recreated(Janeway's bun, Carey, talk of neural gelpacks, the Doctor confined to sickbay etc), I enjoyed seeing Kes again and the Vidiians. I liked the visuals and the tinge of sadness permeating the episode of what Kes had become ultimately.
I will say the timeline mechanics was a bit odd and it was a little convenient that the second Old Kes at the end forgot about the recording she made a few years earlier.
No. not character assassination. People change because of events they go through. I went to a high school reunion and a lot of the folks are nothing like they were back in our school days.
Kes went through some traumatic accelerated evolution so who's to say she wouldn't be different or angrier.
Well, the what I quoted was pretty much just a feeling (Like "it felt like the writers were saying...") and of course it was an over exaggeration.
It's not necessary if you're going to take it seriously but as a comic episode/self-parody it does work. While not my favorite episode it's certainly entertaining.
I agree. I really didn't think I would enjoy Live Fast and Prosper based on the trailer and it looked to be another fluff episode in a season of what I felt were too many fluff pieces but I was surprised when I found it to be so entertaining. I thought it was an effective fluff piece compared to say a weak boring one like Fair Haven or Virtuoso.
I loved it whenever the show did this, which was quite a few times. We saw it in "Relativity," "Fury," and "Shattered." And to a lesser extent there was the holoprogram in "Worst Case Scenario" which Tuvok had presumably written prior to "State of Flux" (judging by the Bajoran Seska) and "Pathfinder," in which Barclay's holo-recreation of Voyager was based off dated information (very nice touch.)
Kelis the Poet is played by Joseph Will, who was also a secondary character on ENT, Crewman Michael Rostov.
I'm a fan of Waymire and Will, and I would have loved to see more of Joseph (and yes, Kellie
). There used to be a poster with the screen name "Rostov's Butt" in the ENT forum; he has a following. 
"Muse" is also my favorite VOY episode. Joseph Will
In comparison to the more popular Seasons Four and Five, Season Six is certainly a Curate's Egg but it was better to Season Seven.
