Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...
- Thread starter Warped9
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Five stars for me. Terrible dilemma and a solution no one is happy with in the end.
So what's your better alternative? Cede the planet to the Klingons outright and allow them to brutalize the population and strip the planet of its' natural resources?
At the end of the day, you hope cooler heads prevail when two things happen:
1) The Klingons see you're willing to up the ante on the technology front. A willingness to make sure the two sides remain on even footing may make the Klingons think twice about introducing any more advances.
2) The villagers realize that their advantage seems to quickly evaporate. If the hill people show they have the weapons and the will to use them, the villagers may think twice about a prolonged conflict.
If Kirk had bugged out and just reported back to Starfleet then what happens? A lot of tsk-tsk and "for shame" by diplomats? Oh, yeah, that'll make the Klingons think twice and pull out.
Problem is the damage was already done and it was only going to get worse. The Klingons had no interest in natural development of the native population. They were looking simply for a way to get their hands on the planet.
The next question is: are the Federation and the Klingons willing to go to war again over this planet? That's a real possibility if the Feds try to force them out, and that could be just as damaging if not more so to the native population.
This is a story with a solution to a dilemma that is far from being a good one. The question isn't what is better (if there is a better solution), but what is the least worst solution?
Of course what isn't mentioned here is if the Klingons are indeed in violation of the treaty then what would happen if the Federation snitched on them to the Organians?
Problem is the damage was already done and it was only going to get worse. The Klingons had no interest in natural development of the native population. They were looking simply for a way to get their hands on the planet.
The next question is: are the Federation and the Klingons willing to go to war again over this planet? That's a real possibility if the Feds try to force them out, and that could be just as damaging if not more so to the native population.
This is a story with a solution to a dilemma that is far from being a good one. The question isn't what is better (if there is a better solution), but what is the least worst solution?
Of course what isn't mentioned here is if the Klingons are indeed in violation of the treaty then what would happen if the Federation snitched on them to the Organians?
Eh the episode isn't really worth discussing much so I hesitate to add anything to it...but...the plot device that allowed the show to tell stories of Klingons without having all-out war, also was to the detriment of the stories like this...if they are competing to see who develops planets efficiently and so on, and there are rules in place set by the Organians, then there has to be some accountability...but no, the Organians disappear when it's convenient. In all reality, this incident should never have happened...Klingons get sneaky...the UFP protests...the Organians react. The alternative is some sort of plea bargaining and/or a UFP blockade of any planets in conflict. If the Klingons protest, and there may/may not be escalation, the Organians would be forced again to intervene. In fact, this jockeying for position would have been way more interesting than the episode, which came complete with the Wicked Witch's horned monkeys.
RAMA
RAMA
How do you blockade a planet that the treaty says both sides have a right to develop?
Problem is that your automatically expecting the Organians to to believe in the Prime Directive. The Klingons training and arming a group of natives could be seen as developing them.
It's erroneous to equate Organian values with Federation values.
Actually no one should be developing this planet. What do you think "hands off" means?
The thing is I suspect the Feds aren't much happier than the Klingons that the Organians stopped them from fighting. As Kirk said people have a right to manage their own affairs. BUT they did bring their argument to Organia and so the Organians got involved and slapped them both.
I suspect it's the threat of Organian intervention that is supposed to keep both sides in check until they learn to live together on their own. Because no where again in TOS or any subsequent film or series are the Organians ever mentioned again. I think the Organians made a lot of noise just to be left alone and have no real intention in interfering with Federation/Klingon relations unless they brought them again to their world.
The thing is I suspect the Feds aren't much happier than the Klingons that the Organians stopped them from fighting. As Kirk said people have a right to manage their own affairs. BUT they did bring their argument to Organia and so the Organians got involved and slapped them both.
I suspect it's the threat of Organian intervention that is supposed to keep both sides in check until they learn to live together on their own. Because no where again in TOS or any subsequent film or series are the Organians ever mentioned again. I think the Organians made a lot of noise just to be left alone and have no real intention in interfering with Federation/Klingon relations unless they brought them again to their world.
I guess the Organians have a loose definition of "research".
"We were doing research on the effect flintlocks would have on this civilization."
Except in Enterprise, where they do in fact have a non-interference type directive...which they don't quite follow, keeping with events of "Errand of Mercy". In their different state of thinking, its not light speed that qualifies a species for contact, its a species' response to an unknown virus that serves as a standardised test of intelligence. Possibly this event caused their withdrawal from observation/intervention with the rest of the universe until "Errand..", and is the cause of their reluctance to mediate afterwards.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Observer_Effect_(episode)
Well I never claimed this, I was talking about in general with Sherman's Planet and so on, presumably SOMEONE talked to the Organians and there was a treaty of some kind. So there are at least TWO interventions here....why not a third?? Like I said...Klingons get sneaky, UFP blockades, ifthey protest it means war, and the Organians must react or their first effort meant nothing.
RAMA
Well I don't consider ENT a valid source for anything TOS related so I couldn't care less what they fucked up in continuity yet again.
Well I don't consider you a valid source of canon, so the episode stands...not only that, its a ***** star ep way better than the one we are discussing.
RAMA
I don't care. You can trot all sorts of stuff from "that show" in here and it won't phase me one iota. It wasn't there when TOS was conceived and so I couldn't care less. And the only ***** thing ENT ever did was to get cancelled.
THANK YOU, Les Moonves!
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I'm with Warped 9 on this matter...what Enterprise retconned has no bearing on what was supposed to be happening in TOS episodes. It's fun to see how they might be construed as being consistent in some fashion, but TOS was first and the rules it sets are the rules it plays by.
As to the Organian Peace Treaty, everyone refers to it as something imposed by the Organians and enforced or not by them. Maybe someone mentioned this before, but I think it's more likely that the Treaty is something the Feds and Klingons banged out after the Organians smacked them down, in hopes of not incurring the Organian wrath and being rendered militarily impotent. This would explain why the Organians don't actually seem to enforce the treaty, because they had nothing to do with the Treaty, but their interference is what triggered its implementation.
As to the Organian Peace Treaty, everyone refers to it as something imposed by the Organians and enforced or not by them. Maybe someone mentioned this before, but I think it's more likely that the Treaty is something the Feds and Klingons banged out after the Organians smacked them down, in hopes of not incurring the Organian wrath and being rendered militarily impotent. This would explain why the Organians don't actually seem to enforce the treaty, because they had nothing to do with the Treaty, but their interference is what triggered its implementation.
A good point and I was actually pondering this. Maybe the Organians simply said, "We're not going to let you fight. Now go away and hammer out something you can both live with...and don't bother us again."
This is a really good idea. By my reading of The Trouble with Tribbles dialog, your idea is completely consistent with that episode. Perhaps the Organians really were never heard from again after Errand of Mercy. I like it.
DS9Sega's suggestion is the only one supportable by the subsequent episodes featuring the Klingons. Combat occurs ("Elaan of Troyius"), the threat of war remains ("Day of the Dove"), and the Organians don't lift a non-corporeal finger. It's strictly an agreement between the UFP and KE, inspired by and named for the Organians, but not imposed or enforced by them.
Yes, it is a good idea. I like it as well.
Actually they don't break with the timeline too much in the episode, and even if its an alternate timeline, its one where much stays the same I expect. I consider the entire ST universe one whole, so I can't ignore one whole huge source of info on the Organians especially when its pretty consistent...and a fascinating story. ST seems to be that rare bird that adding, changing info in the context of the rest of the show isnt accepted by that small minority, as opposed to many other popular franchises, whether it be superheroes or James Bond.
RAMA
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