Revenge of the Cybermen

[Mr. Sin]

Any thoughts on this classic Who story? It was the first color Cybermen story, but it's generally considered one of the weaker ones. Apparentally the original concept was for a Cybermen origin story, but Robert Holmes changed it to what we have.

It's worth noting for a few reasons:

1) The first appearence of a Cyberleader, although his 'earmuffs' are black as is his 'handlebars'.

2)Final appearence of the Cybermats in the classic series.

3) Introduced the Cybermen's weakness to gold, which got more ridicoulous with almost every following story, especially Silver Nemesis.


4)Earthshock later used footage from this, which opened a continuity error akin to the UNIT problem, although not quite as bad.

5) These Cybermen are interesting as they have built in head weapons. Built-in Cyberstuff wouldn't be reintroduced until the new series.


6) It was this Cybermen design which showed up in "Dalek" as the head.

7) The Time Lord seal also appears for the first time here, but it's the Vogan's symbol(!)

8)Like Long Game/Bad Wolf/The Parting of the ways, this shares the same sets as Ark In Space, as the Doctor had visitied the space station at a different point in time.

Revenge of the Cybermen was also historically notable for being the very first Doctor Who released on video, way back in the mid 80s. It was chosen because the Cybermen were extremely popular at the time.

 

[diankra]

Revenge of the Cybermen was also historically notable for being the very first Doctor Who released on video, way back in the mid 80s. It was chosen because the Cybermen were extremely popular at the time.

I believe the detail on this is that the BBC asked attendees at the Longleat convention of Easter 1983 to nominate the story they wanted released.
Tomb of the Cybermen won overwhelmingly, as a lot of people weren't aware it was missing. So the BBC went for Revenge as the closest thing available...

Dunno if it's online, but Gerry Davis's original script for Revenge has been printed (in DWB in 1990, and in the DWB compendium). The transmitted script is a heavy rewrite by Robert Holmes.

 

[OmahaStar]

I know it's coming out on dvd later this year (finally!) and I'll own it. Even bad Cybermen are still Cybermen. They're my favorite classic series baddies. Bring it on!

Sad about the Cybermats, though. They're sooo cute!

 

[All-Seeing I]

Definitely my favourite Cyberman design, if nothing else - they just look so solid and chunky, and the headguns are great (but if the ammo is stored in their heads, where do they they keep their electronic brains?). The Cyberleader's performance was...eccentric, but I liked it; no more eccentric than David Banks' fist-clenching "Excellent!", which I liked as well. Looking forward to the DVD with alt-CGI, to replace the crappy revolving Voga tube.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Love this story and have been waiting for ages to get it on DVD, my old VHS copy is almost dead, its also got some great Harry and Sarah moments in it.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Not only is this my least favorite Cybermen story, it introduces my least favorite Cybermen design. I much prefer the Hartnell and Troughton designs.

 

[Captain Pike]

As far as cyberman design - weren't the ones used in Revenge.. essentially the same design as The Invasion, but with the addition of the head gun?

BTW -

Apparentally the original concept was for a Cybermen origin story, but Robert Holmes changed it to what we have.

Well he had to really - either that or reschedule for another slot, as we had just had the Dalek origin story.

 

[davejames]

Sad about the Cybermats, though. They're sooo cute!

Lol. I have a hard time believing those things were frightening even to children in the 60s.

 

[Captain Pike]

Uhh sorry but the cybermats in Revenge.. (which struck like a cobra and gave you that nasty looking phosphorescent plague) terrified me when I first saw them aged 6.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

The Cyberleader's performance was...eccentric, but I liked it; no more eccentric than David Banks' fist-clenching "Excellent!", which I liked as well.

Yeah. There's a special skill to playing a Cyberman on Doctor Who, or indeed playing any monster with a lot of dialog but no visible facial features. The one that's talking has to move just slightly more than the ones that aren't, so you know who is talking when.

 

[Marc]

The Cyberleader's performance was...eccentric, but I liked it; no more eccentric than David Banks' fist-clenching "Excellent!", which I liked as well.

Yeah. There's a special skill to playing a Cyberman on Doctor Who, or indeed playing any monster with a lot of dialog but no visible facial features. The one that's talking has to move just slightly more than the ones that aren't, so you know who is talking when.

Well at least the second time around they let Michael Kilgarrif speak his own lines as another Cyberleader- though his "cyberspread" (as my brother) called it detracted a bit.

and what's the story behind the changes Holmes made?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

As far as cyberman design - weren't the ones used in Revenge.. essentially the same design as The Invasion, but with the addition of the head gun?

Yes, that's true. To clarify, I mean the design prior to The Invasion, although (hypocritically in way) I don't mind it in that serial.

 

[Cutter John]

It's kinda hard to tell from the scant collection of pics online. Parts of the Invasion costumes may have been recycled, but with bits added. It certainly can't be that hard to paint rubber diving suits silver though.

i always kinda liked the cybermats, even the cute ones. They'd have been a lot creepier without the big cute eyes though. Still, I could see them working in the new series. Make then like little chrome trilobites for surveillance, sabotage, assassinations, etc. Kinda like the robotic spiders in 'The End of the World'.

 

[Rarewolf]

If you know your who history Revenge is also amusing in that the late great Kevin Stoney plays the leader of the Vogans, who are fighting in a bitter war against the Cybermen.

 

[Captain Pike]

Hey I never realised that was Kevin Stoney behind the makeup.

The whole weakness to gold thing was a really bad idea imo.

 

[Candlelight]

This was apparently going to be Pertwee's first Cyberman story, had he not regenerated at the end of the previous season.

 

[diankra]

It's kinda hard to tell from the scant collection of pics online. Parts of the Invasion costumes may have been recycled, but with bits added. It certainly can't be that hard to paint rubber diving suits silver though.

The heads are the Invasion helmets (or possibly new pulls from the same mould), with different corrugated 'handle-bars'.
The chest units are the Moonbase/Tomb/Wheel in Space models.
The body suits were probably new.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I had two odd theories generated from my last viewing of this serial.

1. Mondas is a Gallifreyan outpost. You did notice the seal of Rassilon everywhere in the underground city?

2. The head guns made me think that these were cyberconverted Silurians. Which doesn't track easily since the Silurians claim to have been hiding from a rouge moon we would one day call luna but the ELE meteor which killed the dinosaurs was a time travelling frieghter loaded with cybermen and cybertechnology... But they could have "met" any old time.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I have to watch this episode again.

The Cyber-model here is my favorite; I like it better than the current version. Although, the current version is still menacing in its own way....

The Cyber-model from The Tenth Planet becomes chilling because we see what they can do, in later episodes such as Attack of the Cybermen, that 6th Doctor flash episode I forget the name of, and the 10th Doctor episodes...

As for the Cybermats: I know if they were upgraded in the episodes with the current 'Dawctaa,' they would be a little less cute, and more...uh...chilling, and menacing....

 

[Steve67]

The whole weakness to gold thing was a really bad idea imo.

Yeah, especially since humans already have that weakness.

I haven't seen this one in thirty years, though I have the novelization. It may be time to give it another read. I liked the story as a kid, so that probably means It'll be cringe-inducing now.

And someone mentioned that Revenge is due out on DVD this year; is there a US release scheduled?