Reveal: New transporter design!

[Psion]

If you want to see an example of a failed pilot from that era, I suggest you look into "Alexander the Great" starring William Shatner and Adam West. "The Cage" was directly responsible for Star Trek, and if it had been a failed pilot, we'd all be Lost in Space fans.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

If you want to see an example of a failed pilot from that era, I suggest you look into "Alexander the Great" starring William Shatner and Adam West. "The Cage" was directly responsible for Star Trek, and if it had been a failed pilot, we'd all be Lost in Space fans.

But it did fail. It was not green lit. What happened was it got some interest, but failed. So they reworked it and made a Pilot that worked, which was "where No man has gone before" that was the pilot of Star trek. The cage was a failed pilot of what Trek would have been if the cage had not failed.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

"The Cage" was directly responsible for Star Trek, and if it had been a failed pilot, we'd all be Lost in Space fans.

Perhaps in an alternate universe this is Captain Pike and his green Orion slave girl.

 

[Jesse1066]

But it did fail. It was not green lit. What happened was it got some interest, but failed. So they reworked it and made a Pilot that worked, which was "where No man has gone before" that was the pilot of Star trek. The cage was a failed pilot of what Trek would have been if the cage had not failed.

It was not, strictly speaking, a successful pilot. I take issue with calling it a failed pilot because I think that belies its importance. To be honest, it doesn't make a bit of difference if The Cage was a failed pilot or not. It's canon either way.

 

[Mudd]

If "Where No Man Has Gone Before" had failed we'd be "Lost In Space" fans - because NBC didn't want "The Cage," they bounced it.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

It was not, strictly speaking, a successful pilot. I take issue with calling it a failed pilot because I think that belies its importance. To be honest, it doesn't make a bit of difference if The Cage was a failed pilot or not. It's canon either way.

But it did fail. It did not lead to the show be created. What happened was it got near totally reworked, new customs, prop changes, major recasting to the point only a single actor and his character remained at all. It failed, it dd not lead to a TV show, this is why its a failed pilot. That is what you call one that does not get made into a TV show. Trying to sugar coat it does not change the fact it failed.

Trill where canon as well, and DS9 rewrote that whole race. Trek retcons cannon when ever it dang well feels like it. How the cage looks is irrelevant, You can keep the events and have it look like discovery with zero impact at all. Who cares they use TOS style phasers and not lasers, who cares they use the delta and not the goofy mission patches no one really likes. None of that has any impact on the events or stories at all.

 

[Jesse1066]

But it did fail. It did not lead to the show be created. What happened was it got near totally reworked, new customs, prop changes, major recasting to the point only a single actor and his character remained at all. It failed, it dd not lead to a TV show, this is why its a failed pilot. That is what you call one that does not get made into a TV show. Trying to sugar coat it does not change the fact it failed.

Trill where canon as well, and DS9 rewrote that whole race. Trek retcons cannon when ever it dang well feels like it. How the cage looks is irrelevant, You can keep the events and have it look like discovery with zero impact at all. Who cares they use TOS style phasers and not lasers, who cares they use the delta and not the goofy mission patches no one really likes. None of that has any impact on the events or stories at all.

We've been over all this before. I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

We all know that despite the numerous nitpicks NBC had with "The Cage", they made the extraordinary and, at the time, rare move to order a second pilot. That shows clearly if "they bounced it" or not.

 

[Racer_X]

Man oh man, I just do not understand this one-man crusade against the original Enterprise. Sure, one or two posts on the subject I can respect. But my god, how many posts can one man make? And make again? And again? And with no cogent argument except that "It was designed in the 60s, so it looks like it's from the 60s"? Talk about circular logic. Ugh. Dude, we get it, your point has been made ad nauseam, you don't like the original Enterprise, but you know what? You really need to let it go.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Man oh man, I just do not understand this one-man crusade against the original Enterprise. Sure, one or two posts on the subject I can respect. But my god, how many posts can one man make? And make again? And again? And with no cogent argument except that "It was designed in the 60s, so it looks like it's from the 60s"? Talk about circular logic. Ugh. Dude, we get it, your point has been made ad nauseam, you don't like the original Enterprise, but you know what? You really need to let it go.

Exactly this. No logical argumentation whatsoever. Just the same repetitive "lame duck" talking point and personal preference expressed as "fact".

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Exactly this. No logical argumentation whatsoever. Just the same repetitive "lame duck" talking point and personal preference expressed as "fact".

I actually broke it down a few times, I went into detail about why it did not fit. You and others have no arguments except "its TOS!" Just because you lack a counter argument, don't try to act like I did not lay out the points as to why it no longer fits.

 

[Prax]

Not sure if it's relevant but the pilot that "sold" Trek to audiences I think was called "Da Man Trap."

 

[Michael]

I have a hard time seeing “The Cage” as a “failed pilot”, to be honest. It did sell the idea of the series to the studio. They saw the potential of it making a good show, so they invested in another presentation that was even more to their liking. It may not have led directly to the production to the series, but it was a key factor. People talk about the things that were changed from pilot to pilot, but look at the things they didn't change. Almost all the elements were already present in “The Cage”. So no, “The Cage” didn't fail.

 

[Noname Given]

I have a hard time seeing “The Cage” as a “failed pilot”, to be honest. It did sell the idea of the series to the studio. They saw the potential of it making a good show, so they invested in another presentation that was even more to their liking. It may not have led directly to the production to the series, but it was a key factor. People talk about the things that were changed from pilot to pilot, but look at the things they didn't change. Almost all the elements were already present in “The Cage”. So no, “The Cage” didn't fail.

No - it DIDN'T really 'sell' the idea of the series to the studio:

- A main issue the studio had WAS with the (at the time for TV) high production values and cost. Another reason they passed was the studio heads didn't believe the series could be produced weekly on the budget it would have to have. (IE they didn't think the production team could maintain the high production values of the pilot week to week - and would loose viewers as a result.)

- They also saw major casting problems (IE it WASN'T that the second in Command was a woman - it was that the lead actress cast was SLEEPING with the shows Executive Producer, who BTW was still married to someone else <--- And what happened IF this high production cost show did become a hit; but the lead actress and Executive Producer broke up? (Yes, a valid concern in Hollywood or any era - bit again, this was PART of the series as originally pitched.)

- They also were leery that the special effect visuals needed could be done fast enough to make episodes deliverable in time on a weekly basis.

They got a break (and a second pilot) because Herb Solow (who was instrumental in getting GR the deal with Desilu, and help him refine the initial and subsequent pitch) went to bat and said "Hey we CAN still do good episodes on the actual budget - give me the per episode figure - and a hard delivery date consistent with what we'd have in production and we'll prove we can still deliver a good show.

But yeah, again, "The Cage" didn't sell the series; and it was actually Herb Solo (and his connections with Desilu) and not GR that got them a second go - and made a pilot that DID sell the series.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Not to mention Lucille Ball, who fought to do what was needed to get the series going. She wanted this and Mission: Impossible to be on TV, and was successful in doing so.

From Solow's recollections, like you said Noname: Roddenberry had no real way of working the network brass, so Solow was really the one who did all the talking and the schmoozing to convince NBC to commission a second pilot.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

No - it DIDN'T really 'sell' the idea of the series to the studio:

- A main issue the studio had WAS with the (at the time for TV) high production values and cost. Another reason they passed was the studio heads didn't believe the series could be produced weekly on the budget it would have to have. (IE they didn't think the production team could maintain the high production values of the pilot week to week - and would loose viewers as a result.)

- They also saw major casting problems (IE it WASN'T that the second in Command was a woman - it was that the lead actress cast was SLEEPING with the shows Executive Producer, who BTW was still married to someone else <--- And what happened IF this high production cost show did become a hit; but the lead actress and Executive Producer broke up? (Yes, a valid concern in Hollywood or any era - bit again, this was PART of the series as originally pitched.)

- They also were leery that the special effect visuals needed could be done fast enough to make episodes deliverable in time on a weekly basis.

All this proves that the studio asked for changes before greenlighting the show. If you watch the Lost In Space pilot it is totally different to the Lost In Space series. It is so different, that unlike The Cage, it not even considered canon/in continuity. By your reasoning that's also a failed pilot.

They got a break (and a second pilot) because Herb Solow (who was instrumental in getting GR the deal with Desilu, and help him refine the initial and subsequent pitch) went to bat and said "Hey we CAN still do good episodes on the actual budget - give me the per episode figure - and a hard delivery date consistent with what we'd have in production and we'll prove we can still deliver a good show.

But yeah, again, "The Cage" didn't sell the series; and it was actually Herb Solo (and his connections with Desilu) and not GR that got them a second go - and made a pilot that DID sell the series.

In other words they got got a break (and a second pilot) because someone sold them the show. Pretty much what we're saying then.

 

[Noname Given]

In other words they got got a break (and a second pilot) because someone sold them the show. Pretty much what we're saying then.

^^^
Um, there was never any doubt 'someone' sold them the show. The point was the FIRST PILOT (aka "The Cage") FAILED to sell the show. Again, they thought the series would be TOO EXPENSIVE and that it further failed to prove they could do effects shots in the timeframe required for a weekly show (based on how long the effects took for the pilot) - so yeah, the pilot itself FAILED.

Herb Solo talked them into a second pilot with production constraints to show their production timeline and budget concerns could in fact be met.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

One of my favorite books to read is Inside Star Trek, in that you get the viewpoints of Herb Solow, Bob Justman, etc. on the beginning of the series, including the whole process that went into that first pilot, NBC having concerns enough to them not wanting it for practical concerns, and Solow pushing it enough to give the series another chance.

And frankly, NBC's concerns were very real in the realm of budget and scheduling to make airdates.

 

[Noname Given]

One of my favorite books to read is Inside Star Trek, in that you get the viewpoints of Herb Solow, Bob Justman, etc. on the beginning of the series, including the whole process that went into that first pilot, NBC having concerns enough to them not wanting it for practical concerns, and Solow pushing it enough to give the series another chance.

And frankly, NBC's concerns were very real in the realm of budget and scheduling to make airdates.

And the point is: In Hollywood over the decades since TV became a mass medium there have been plenty of pilots for various shows that Network Execs did like - BUT, which were passed on for what were considered practical reasons (budget required, etc.)

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

^^^
Um, there was never any doubt 'someone' sold them the show. The point was the FIRST PILOT (aka "The Cage") FAILED to sell the show. Again, they thought the series would be TOO EXPENSIVE and that it further failed to prove they could do effects shots in the timeframe required for a weekly show (based on how long the effects took for the pilot) - so yeah, the pilot itself FAILED.

Herb Solo talked them into a second pilot with production constraints to show their production timeline and budget concerns could in fact be met.

Fespite the numerous nitpicks NBC had with The Cage, they made the extraordinary and extremely rare move to order a second pilot. That doesn't happen with failed pilots. If a pilot fails then that's the end of that. There's NO second pilot and NO subsequent series.