Resupplying Voyager...

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Have been reading about how Voyager can keep on firing Photon Torpedoes without running out of them. I am under the impression that most Federation mid-sized to Galaxy size starships would have the ability to make photons on a as-needed basis. Remembering how Tuvok and Harry were making a huge yield torpedoe in "Omega Directive" After all bad things can happen in deep space and one would think that the ability to generate needed supplies food, medical, weapons systems....ect just makes sense...

 

[Plecostomus]

Within limits. Story gets boring if you can do everything with handwavum or push a button to solve every problem. That's why some things cant be replicated, thats why things break down, consoles explode and other bad things happen.

 

[Timo]

We should note that the ship only had a shortage of things during the first season or so. At that time, she also was said to suffer from limitations on what could be replicated, in terms of quantity and perhaps also quality.

Perhaps the torpedo-making machines were knocked out by the Caretaker originally, and took a while to repair. Not the easiest task when the Kazon were at their tail and few local ports would have the required technology to facilitate those repairs. And if they did, they'd not necessarily share it with Janeway, as seen in "Prime Factors".

In general, Voyager was a rather big ship and could probably have constructed additional torps, shuttles and redshirts on her own - after having been repaired to the usual specs.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[exodus]

As long as the ship can land or the replicators work, nothing they have the design scimatics for is impossable to build. Everything but anti-matter can be replicated. Replicating is nothing but recycling stuff you already have, even debris.

Come on, nobody thinks they actually left such dangerous technology like "Dreadnaut" floating in space for anyone to find. They beamed it onboard and broke it down for spare replicating parts and used the warhead to make more torpedos.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always assumed Voyager's crew traded with friendly alien races for various things needed, such as food, torpedoes and shuttlecraft parts. Or, more precisely, energy required for use of the replicators to make those things.

 

[foxmulder710]

This is why I like
Battlestar Galactica much better. By episode two of season one there were serious concerns about replenishing supplies like WATER.

 

[Dream]

Voyager's infinite shuttles...

 

[Timo]

This is why I like Battlestar Galactica much better. By episode two of season one there were serious concerns about replenishing supplies like WATER.

...Of course, after episode two of season one, there never were concerns about replenishing supplies like water again.

Which is a good thing, because if we had to believe in a non-self-sufficient ragtag fleet or starship, then our protagonists would have no hope of ever reaching their goal.

Nu-BSG never quite did get a grip of the resources situation. There were episodes about the existence of a black market, and one where it was the main storyline and it was revealed that the ragtag fleet could not operate without the goods provided by this market. What the fuck? Everything this market would have access to would be produced aboard the fleet! It should have been a trivial matter for Adama to gather up the most prominent ringleaders, pump them full of lead, and then have his military run the very same production facilities in place of the nasty villain characters. Instant socialization of assets is something that militaries are very good at when the playing field is finite. And instant socialization of assets plus a showy execution of a few villain characters is what the populance there would have wanted, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jgdst]

As I understood it, the reason torpedoes couldn't be relpicated was because of the antimatter component in the warhead. If antimatter was easily replicated, then there never would have been a problem in Deadlock.

Though, if you go by the Infinite Shuttle Theory, they can manufacture entire warp cores out of thin air...

I've learned to take a lot of the science and technical aspects on Voyager with a pinch of salt. Trying to work out where all the extra equipment and ever-spawning crew are coming from is enough to give you a breakdown

 

[Timo]

I see no sound reason why antimatter couldn't be replicated, and indeed no Trek episode or movie makes the allusion that it cannot. It just happens that the replicators are powered by antimatter... So in order to replicate a kilogram of the stuff, you probably have to burn two.

However, shortage of antimatter cannot have been the reason for the torpedo shortage. After all, as said, pretty much everything on the ship runs on antimatter. If they can maintain warp for a week, they can also choose to maintain warp for six days, 23 hours and 59 minutes and load one torpedo. Or 6 days, 23 hours and 50 minutes for ten torpedoes. There is no reason why the ship should have, say, exactly 32 torps in storage if antimatter were the limiting thing.

In DS9 "Tribunal", we learned that antimatter warheads (presumably unloaded ones) are a rare commodity that the Maquis could plausibly be interested in stealing, even though they are known to possess at least some replicators. Makes sense, if torpedo warheads indeed are like the Tech Manuals describe them: extremely intricate forcefield matrix structures that can precisely combine the small specks of antimatter with matter so that everything reacts with everything before the explosion scatters the materials.

So perhaps in her damaged state, Voyager was unable to replicate torpedo warheads to the level of precision needed?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I see no sound reason why antimatter couldn't be replicated, and indeed no Trek episode or movie makes the allusion that it cannot.

"Peak Performance".

 

[exodus]

As I understood it, the reason torpedoes couldn't be relpicated was because of the antimatter component in the warhead. If antimatter was easily replicated, then there never would have been a problem in Deadlock.

Though, if you go by the Infinite Shuttle Theory, they can manufacture entire warp cores out of thin air...

I've learned to take a lot of the science and technical aspects on Voyager with a pinch of salt. Trying to work out where all the extra equipment and ever-spawning crew are coming from is enough to give you a breakdown

Storage.

Most of Voyager is cargo bays for storage, such as replacement warp cores for shuttles. Seriously, how big could a shuttle warp core be? At least that's what the bonus DVD's that came with the season sets from Best Buy say.

Plus, as explained in "Inncence", Voyager's warp core consentrates the anti-matter so it last longer, couldn't anti-matter be syphoned from it into cores for the shuttles?

 

[Timo]

"Peak Performance".

Huh? That episode shows us that antimatter can be transported without special precautions (as long as it it inside one of Wesley's experimental setups anyway), but it doesn't establish anything about whether it can be replicated. The Hathaway was unable to obtain antimatter simply because she didn't have antimatter; had she been properly fueled with antimatter, her replicators might quite well have produced antimatter. Although it would have made no sense to do so.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jgdst]

Okay, going with the replicated anitmatter theory... I have a question or two.

If replicators work on the theory of matter-energy conversion (á la the transporters and holodecks), then how are the appropriate anti-particles synthesised? You can get antimatter particles through various particle interactions, but there's a certain amount of "wastage" with this process - electron/positron pairs, high-energy gamma rays, etc, so the yield isn't going to be 100% of the replicator material converted (as mentioned by Timo previously), though I will concede, there's nothing to say there isn't some from of wastage with normal matter replication, but I doubt it would be on the same scale. But I'm not convinced you could synthesise enough "pure" antimatter through this method.

[Just an aside, to be überpicky (sorry!): I don't think it's right to say a ship or its systems are run on antimatter, rather the energy produced by the matter/antimatter reaction. Running anything on antimatter alone would probably destroy the ship and a good deal of the surrounding space too ]

Assuming that you do get a decent amount of antimatter, in most (I'll take a leap of faith here and say all) instances of seeing the replicator in action, the object has always appeared on the replicator "pad". Now, given the nature of anitmatter, if it is replicated and comes into contact with the replicator, surely the whole thing is going to annihilate itself in your face, or at the very least give you a lethal dose of gamma radiation.

Or could a possible solution be to set up said replicator behind a forcefield using some carefully manipulated magnetic fields?

If that's the case, I'm not convinced that replicating the antimatter is the best way to keep energy expenditure at a minimum, as would be the case on Voyager at least some of the time... Which could bring us back to the initial comment that maybe replicating torpedoes was not impossible, but was too energy expensive.

Just my two pennies

Regarding warp cores for shuttles: True, they are quite small (if the Delta Flyer's core is anything to go by), but to have them sitting in storage? Would it be possible to have a shelf of matter/antimatter reactors without their reactions becoming a problem? Would it even be considered safe enough? In any case, considering the amount of punishment Voyager seems to have inflicted on it, I wouldn't like to be the guy assigned to keeping an eye on it

 

[bintak]

Okay, going with the replicated anitmatter theory... I have a question or two.

If replicators work on the theory of matter-energy conversion (á la the transporters and holodecks), then how are the appropriate anti-particles synthesised? You can get antimatter particles through various particle interactions, but there's a certain amount of "wastage" with this process - electron/positron pairs, high-energy gamma rays, etc, so the yield isn't going to be 100% of the replicator material converted (as mentioned by Timo previously), though I will concede, there's nothing to say there isn't some from of wastage with normal matter replication, but I doubt it would be on the same scale. But I'm not convinced you could synthesise enough "pure" antimatter through this method.

[Just an aside, to be überpicky (sorry!): I don't think it's right to say a ship or its systems are run on antimatter, rather the energy produced by the matter/antimatter reaction. Running anything on antimatter alone would probably destroy the ship and a good deal of the surrounding space too ]

Assuming that you do get a decent amount of antimatter, in most (I'll take a leap of faith here and say all) instances of seeing the replicator in action, the object has always appeared on the replicator "pad". Now, given the nature of anitmatter, if it is replicated and comes into contact with the replicator, surely the whole thing is going to annihilate itself in your face, or at the very least give you a lethal dose of gamma radiation.

Or could a possible solution be to set up said replicator behind a forcefield using some carefully manipulated magnetic fields?

If that's the case, I'm not convinced that replicating the antimatter is the best way to keep energy expenditure at a minimum, as would be the case on Voyager at least some of the time... Which could bring us back to the initial comment that maybe replicating torpedoes was not impossible, but was too energy expensive.

Just my two pennies

Regarding warp cores for shuttles: True, they are quite small (if the Delta Flyer's core is anything to go by), but to have them sitting in storage? Would it be possible to have a shelf of matter/antimatter reactors without their reactions becoming a problem? Would it even be considered safe enough? In any case, considering the amount of punishment Voyager seems to have inflicted on it, I wouldn't like to be the guy assigned to keeping an eye on it

Very short string theory answer, you change the dimensional curl's direction 60 degrees.

Standard model theory answer, you take your quark building blocks and assemble them to create anti-particles.

My answer, not possible in sizable bulk, since the creation of the instant KABOOM you generated negates the whole exercise.

 

[jgdst]

Very short string theory answer, you change the dimensional curl's direction 60 degrees.

Standard model theory answer, you take your quark building blocks and assemble them to create anti-particles.

My answer, not possible in sizable bulk, since the creation of the instant KABOOM you generated negates the whole exercise.

Lol the kaboom would be a deciding influence on the whole thing.

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling there's a Feynman diagram somwhere wanting in on this discussion?

 

[Timo]

Since transporting of antimatter doesn't involve kabooms, I guess UFP technology has the situation under control somehow. Probably containment arrangements can be materialized apace with the antimatter, so that there never is a moment when the antimatter is in direct contact with matter.

Still, I gotta admit that we've never seen antimatter replicated on screen.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[bintak]

Since transporting of antimatter doesn't involve kabooms, I guess UFP technology has the situation under control somehow. Probably containment arrangements can be materialized apace with the antimatter, so that there never is a moment when the antimatter is in direct contact with matter.

Still, I gotta admit that we've never seen antimatter replicated on screen.

Timo Saloniemi

First, scientists "create" and "store" anti-matter in small amounts in what is called the anti-proton capture ring at Fermi Lab.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_/ai_18947093

Second, there are no known anti-influences to handle conservation of information anti-matter issues. We are stuck with gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear influences.

Electromagnetism is the only modulation we have that can influence anti-matter. Just keeping a few dozen million anti-protons from burning out that Fermilab capture ring takes enough yearly electricity to power a small city.

KABOOM otherwise .

That is no joke.

 

[exodus]

Since transporting of antimatter doesn't involve kabooms, I guess UFP technology has the situation under control somehow. Probably containment arrangements can be materialized apace with the antimatter, so that there never is a moment when the antimatter is in direct contact with matter.

Still, I gotta admit that we've never seen antimatter replicated on screen.

Timo Saloniemi

First, scientists "create" and "store" anti-matter in small amounts in what is called the anti-proton capture ring at Fermi Lab.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_/ai_18947093

Second, there are no known anti-influences to handle conservation of information anti-matter issues. We are stuck with gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear influences.

Electromagnetism is the only modulation we have that can influence anti-matter. Just keeping a few dozen million anti-protons from burning out that Fermilab capture ring takes enough yearly electricity to power a small city.

KABOOM otherwise .

That is no joke.

Can we assume due to our first parntership with the Vulcans that they would have the knowledge of a better way?

I mean while science applies, we are also talking fiction here too.

 

[bintak]

Can we assume due to our first parntership with the Vulcans that they would have the knowledge of a better way?

I mean while science applies, we are also talking fiction here too.

Shrug; I don't know. We are stuck with the universe we have. It has to have some boundary to it in order for it to have information to exist. Some things should just be impossible. I suspect that transporters, and creating anti-matter out of thin air, are just two of the limits.