we know she spent three years at the trill academy thing and apparently did not leave much, and she was reaccepted. sounds like she was stuck on Trill. It seems given her past experience Starfleet academy was not needed.
I think the implication is that McCoy is already a doctor, so does not have to go through medical training just Starfleet training, given he wears a cadet uniform he is still a cadet though, still given cadets are apparently pursuing a degree of some sort, no reason why they would not get rank earlier ( which makes sense of Chekov at least) Its a combination of military academy and university.
Nope, there's no mention of Saavik being a cadet anywhere. Cadets are people who haven't graduated, and Spock's little pupils featured plenty of people who didn't wear the insignia of graduated and commissioned officers.
Kirk held rank at the Academy, but obviously only after graduation. We know he was an instructor there, teaching classes: that's rather more likely to happen after graduation than before it.
No, he says he wanted to get to DS9 straight away. We never learn if he was granted that wish.
This would all happen after she had graduated, assuming she enrolled at 18.
Yup, that much is clearly implied. But the thing I'm concerned about here is that this is the only verified case where training at the Academy is immediately followed by promotion to LtCmdr rank. With all the other hero doctors, medical studies could have come first, Starfleet studies then, or vice versa (or these could have been one and the same thing) - but with Starfleet studies in every example culminating in graduation at Ensign rank.
We don't really know the meaning of those uniforms - instructors also wearing them is a distinct possibility (Spock's uniform is color-coded differently, but that's just incomplete statistics
). Uhura was a (senior) Lieutenant, too, despite wearing that uniform and helping out at Kirk's final try at the no-win scenario. Then again, she was also explicitly a Cadet, unlike Saavik. Or then we're just witnessing the effects of the confusing activation of the cadet force in that emergency: the students may have received instant degrees (even Kirk is listed as a junior Lieutenant on computer screens), and even Spock is confused between calling Uhura by her former status or her current rank.We do klnow that Starfleet medical takes 8 years however and that he was 18 when he joined.
e don't really know the meaning of those uniforms - instructors also wearing them is a distinct possibility (Spock's uniform is color-coded differently, but that's just incomplete statistics
Never established. Scotty wore it in the previous movie, and the very much commissioned Lieutenant (Commander!) Valeris kept on wearing it in ST6.
No need to add "including". Or do you wish to imply that Spock, McCoy, Uhura and Sulu were also cadets, as they helped wreck the simulator as well?
No, we don't.
That would be the real-world take on it, certainly. There are plenty of postgraduate studies to a military career that aims high.
To be accurate, we don't know that his assignment aboard the Republic at Ensign rank was his first. But we have reason to think that it did not take him away from the Academy, because he later says that one Captain Garrovick, known for his command of the Farragut rather than the Republic, was his CO from the day he left the Academy - and we know he was at the Academy at Lieutenant rank, teaching classes.
Here it should be pointed out that Kirk in both universes was very much an undergraduate when taking the Kobayashi Maru test. In the nuMovies, this is explicitly shown; in ST2, it's explicitly said that "Cadet" Kirk defeated the no-win scenario.
This is far from obvious as the conversation proves and indeed the timelines available on the ST website and the Star Trek chronology ( and I realise they are not canon, however if it was THAT self evident that Kirk was not an ensign until graduation then they would not have him having that rank before.)
We know that Beverly took eight years to graduate from her Starfleet profile which was shown clearly on screen, and we know she was 18 when she entered the academy ( same document) - seems logical that she studied medicine at the academy and that the course took eight years not four. Julian's statements seem to back this up as well.
Again there is no basis for the assumption that Command school is a post graduate thing. As mentioned before the NuTrek universe certainly has cadets holding rank - FWIW the (again non canon to be fair) Starfleet Academy game has Command school as the last two years of curriculum for exceptional students ( though it is worth baring in mind that non canon does not automatically mean not true, just that future writers are not bound by it, its never been contradicted either).
FWIW, I don't think thats the same as command school, merely a way for non Line officers to become line officers. My guess would be that Beverly took the exam while she spent a year at Starfleet medical since she returns as a full commander and Deanna gains that rank upon completing the exam ( which always struck me as a little odd tbf) Clearly though that exam hardly requires intensive training since it seems to take Deanna a couple of weeks at most.
Well .... I suppose its possible he entered the academy at age 13... Or he could be an ensign while in the academy. Lets let common sense prevail as to whether a child would be allowed into a military academy. The movie does make it clear that the standard time for the academy is four years ( which is very much in line with the pre abramverse ). Kirk of course pretty much completes it in three.
Absolutely not, NOTHING suggests that Saavik is not a cadet and the incidental evidence implies that she is! Again there is nothing to suggest that Command school is not part of the basic curriculum and other sources suggest it is. the Starfleet academy game may not be canon but it has not been contradicted either - and even non canon stuff is checked for consistency.
No, its clear from what Mitchell said he was not familiar with Kirk before he met him as a Lt at the academy ( otherwise he would certainly of mentioned it).
Yep Lt Uhura is clearly a cadet. no question about it. so she was a cadet and a lt. thats fairly explicit. no need for anyone to be given a rank or such if they already had it.
Well either they the information was left alone and not meddled with, or the agent deliberately made everything up from scratch. again I will let common sense prevail. Of course there is no real reason why medical would take eight years instead of four, unless it was comparable to say, the fact it takes about that long to become an MD. and the fact that Bashirs statements and age in DS9 back it up.... could be a coincidence (after all he could be like Chekov and have enrolled at age 13e know that Beverly took eight years to graduate from her Starfleet profile which was shown clearly on screen, and we know she was 18 when she entered the academy ( same document) ...The one where false parentage information was given, as later proven in "Sub Rosa" et al.? Seems the Satarran agent made a mistake or three.
). No she left as a lt Commander, she says it was about 8 years ago she was THINKING about taking the exam, but thats not the same as taking it ( Doesn't she say she is not a line officer at one point in season one) makes sense she took it while she was away.
Stupid as is seems its fairly explicit that Deanna getting promoted to full commander is purely because she completed the exam.
Umm... Wesley Crusher?
Dialogue and visuals directly establish that Saavik is a Lieutenant. In the real world, that means she cannot be a Cadet. If one wants to evoke a fantasyland rule that Lieutenants can be Cadets, one may - but that's going against obvious evidence and requires some sort of proof.
I don't see any reason why he would have mentioned it. The fifteen-years-as-friends thing was already established. Also, nobody ever said anything requiring correcting, such as "Mitchell met Kirk as a Lt at the Academy" - all that was said was that some people warned Mitchell of Lieutenant Kirk.
That hinges on the "already". And the "already" only comes after the cadets are sent to defend the Federation aboard a fleet of starships. Uhura is never a Lieutenant until the moment of being assigned to the Farragut.
Totally false - go rewatch the first season of TNG.
Wesley took exams just before his sixteenth birthday, so he would have been sixteen at least when he entered the academy. that a big leap from 13 years old. We can safely assume since he had not applied before that sixteen is the minimum entry age ( also borne out by Picards statements).
Come on Timo, I think we both know thats not a valid argument its an appeal to absurdity....
Yet the statement implies that Mitchell met Kirk at the academy, not conclusive in itself but it adds to the weight of evidence that Kirk held rank at the academy. Its clear what the intent of the statement was.
There is no basis for that statement, nothing says any of the cadets were given rank after the crisis. Again a seventeen year old holding the rank of ensign indicates that cadets did have rank prior to that. So Uhura was almost certainly a lt prior to the crisis while she was a cadet.
This is fine and well, but not something that the evidence would actually require us to believe. Nobody called Cadet has worn commissioned officer's insignia outside the crisis in STXI, and no personal history requires us to believe that such a thing would have happened off screen.
Very much to the contrary, this argument is just as valid than yours, point by point. Saavik being a female is confirmed by her being addressed by the feminine pronoun multiple times - just like her being a commissioned officer is confirmed by her being addressed Lieutenant. This is English 101. Saavik is also addressed as "Mister", which is contrary to historical precedent; might be an acceptable "futuristic" element because women in naval service were still rare in the 1980s; but in the end is an outlier and an oddity that has very little evidence value. And yes, this is scifi, and a man could have boobs there, but that's really not something we'd wish to actively pursue.
We're not talking about intent here, though, but about reconciling between the writings of authors who didn't pay attention to what others were doing.
Nothing going against it, either. And that is the sort of thing even real-world militaries do in dire emergencies: students are rushed through graduation.
Why, if you wish to argue that Kirk should have held the rank of Lieutenant at that very same age? Why would a lower rank prove anything in such a case?
Commissioned officers also definitely attend the meetings and quite possibly wear the uniforms. ST2 had the same thing happening: seasoned veterans partook in the activities of cadets and trainees, in the same uniforms (if you believe Saavik was a cadet) or in separate, identifiable ones (if you believe Saavik was a commissioned Lieutenant).
Some time before TNG begins, apparently. We never see her wearing LtCmdr pins. Not even in the "Violations" flashback, because she's in civilian gear there.
