"Remastered"

[DonIago]

There's a thread already on this last updated less than a month ago.

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/do-you-think-tos-should-have-been-remastered.280649/

 

[The Lensman]

That's where I land as well: the new fx are great about 70 percent of the time. And that's good, because my DVD set is the TOS-R version. The quality of the Enterprise varies a lot, because CBS switched to a better CGI model of the ship after the first few episodes they worked. That's why some shots in "Balance of Terror," an early effort, are not sufficiently photo-real:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd349.jpg

Some things, like Stratos in "The Cloud Minders," are a giant leap beyond what we had before. Some are almost as good as the original, like the space-going amoeba in "The Immunity Syndrome." And some are an unfortunate step down, like the Hangar Deck or the Klingon battle cruiser. But on balance, I enjoy the new fx.

I also like the original fx, often for their unmatched beauty and realism...

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x18hd/theimmunitysyndromehd0001.jpg

and sometimes more for their nostalgia value and geek historicity...

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0029.jpg

Well said on all points and pretty much my feelings as well. I'm another who feels that it had a 70/30 hit and miss ratio. One of the things I did like was that the world felt more "realized", especially in eps like "The Menagerie" when you see the better quality Starbase 11 in the window behind Pike at the beginning. Or the shuttle silhouette moving across the twilight sky of Starbase 11 in "Court Martial". Or seeing the Intrepid in orbit with the Enterprise in the same episode, as well as the close up to the pod area. Some of the expanded landscapes made those worlds feel a lot less like sound stages.

I also definitely do not miss the reuse of certain ships like the DY-100 for the Woden, K-7, Tholian ship flipped for the space hippies, etc.

Having said that, things like the new hangar deck are always jarring as it just doesn't even remotely match the rest of the ships interiors. The lack of some of the gorgeous and graceful ship shots and movements is also missed. Also, I would've preferred that a "remastered" Trek match the quality of FX in season 3. Whatever problems that season had, the FX weren't one of them. The screenshot you linked to is one of my all time favorite shots.

Some time ago I picked up all the classic Trek blu-rays, and even though I lean towards the newer FX, I still have a soft spot for the originals as they are very nostalgic for me and take me back to the old days of watching Trek on a crappy UHF channel. Imagine how utterly disappointed I was to see just how bad the original exterior FX were in HD. I'm sure someone can and already has explained why they couldn't be sharper, but the quality was so bad it took me out of the story more than the worst of the new FX.

Never liked them to begin with. I forget who it was, but there was a fan artist who did closer-to-the-original remastered versions of some shots that I thought were far better. The new effects just neither looked real nor in keeping with stylization of the original series.

I thought it would be amazing to see the ship in higher def be all the different colors it appeared in the series.

Was it this guy?

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Because he worked on the TMP Directors cut and IIRC, offered to do new FX for Paramount, but they declined his offer and decided to do the project with an in-house team. But yeah, he nails the look much better than the CBS team, and his hangar bay is so spot on it's amazing. This is what I wanted a "remastered" Trek to look like in the decade before it was actually done. I seem to recall him talking about being able to utilize a wider variety of shots and angles to more full realize the episodes.....but then years later it seemed like he was advocating nothing more than exact re-creations of the existing shots 'ala the TNG approach. It's possible I'm remembering wrong.

 

[Warped9]

The always looked terrible.

Agreed.

 

[UnknownSample]

70/30 for me too. Planets from space, amazing. Even the ship, which did look video game -ish to me on a small screen, looks great on a big screen. I no longer mind that the ship's no longer white... it's always in dim light, makes sense.

When I object to a thing though, when they made mistakes, I REALLY object. The mistakes are creative ones. They'll sometimes ditch compelling and inspired space visuals and replace them with dull functional ones, sometimes because they disagree with what they thought the script said about this or that space phenomenon.

 

[RAMA]

Five years out, y'all willing to admit how terrible the "new" effects look now?

Well pardner, as I've acquired each successive new technology that allows me to see and hear it better since 2006: bluray, 4K , larger screens, 3D, new surround sound. I've come to appreciate it more when I watch it. I posted my reaction to the opening scene of immunity Syndrome which was breathtaking in CGI and had forgotten (and possibly had only seen it on a smaller TV in SD when the TOS-R was first shown in syndication).

I see the same reaction online when I see people talking about it on Netflix and my un-scientific online poll suggested 80% who showed a preference preferred the CGI. 10% showed no preference. 10% preferred the old. I'd say the CGI is the clear preference 10 years after the first episode premiered.

Giddyup

RAMA

 

[kkt]

Was it this guy?

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Because he worked on the TMP Directors cut and IIRC, offered to do new FX for Paramount, but they declined his offer and decided to do the project with an in-house team. But yeah, he nails the look much better than the CBS team, and his hangar bay is so spot on it's amazing. This is what I wanted a "remastered" Trek to look like in the decade before it was actually done. I seem to recall him talking about being able to utilize a wider variety of shots and angles to more full realize the episodes.....but then years later it seemed like he was advocating nothing more than exact re-creations of the existing shots 'ala the TNG approach. It's possible I'm remembering wrong.

Those clips look a lot better to me than the CBS version. Thanks for posting the link. He didn't feel free to compose the scenes completely differently and the starships don't make me cringe.

From the CBS version, I like the planets... but very little else. To me, it's more like 25% of the changes are improvements, 25% don't make much difference either way, and 50% are worse.

70/30 for me too. Planets from space, amazing. Even the ship, which did look video game -ish to me on a small screen, looks great on a big screen. I no longer mind that the ship's no longer white... it's always in dim light, makes sense.

If you want it to be strictly realistic, lots of the time when we see ships they're in a solar system, so they should be very brightly lit where they are in sunlight, and so black they're invisible where they are in shadow. Unless they're getting reflected light from a planet. No atmosphere to scatter the light and provide indirect lighting. However, I'm not sure that much realism would really serve the story and could confuse the audience.

I'm sure the original series knew and planned that their Enterprise model would look bluish from the blue screen and how they lit it. They copied that look on the animated series, even the later Enterprises in the movies. Changing the ship to dark grey under all lighting conditions to me is violating the original series' intent. It's the bad guys' ships that are supposed to look dark gray.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Five years out, y'all willing to admit how terrible the "new" effects look now?

Congratulations on finding a topic that has never, ever, been discussed on the Trek BBS before now.

 

[Kemaiku]

The colour balance on the Enterprise in that video is much better than the dull grey of the CBS version, I love the maw of the Planet Killer, that's a nice effect as they move towards it.

 

[johnnybear]

For a moment there I thought I was watching the original version but in better quality! What a great piece of work!
JB

 

[Kemaiku]

Their version of the PK is actually intimidating, the crystal skin effect is great.

 

[Drob]

TOS-R is out on Netflix in Europe here, enjoying most of the new effects but the better film scans and color reproduction for the live action is the better aspect for me.

Do you think they will ever make a de-mastered version using the reconditioned Smithsonian model for reference?

A wishful approach would be to film the restored ship model under flat light to capture the albedo and then track a 3d model on top for digital re-lighting and effects in post. The result would be more authentic since it's the original ship and the matte edges & motion blur would look natural.

 

[ihno]

I like 90% of the new effects and I think they fit nicely with the rest of the show.

And I too would always choose the new effects.

 

[RAMA]

It'll never happen because almost everyone prefers the new FX except for a few older Trekkies, and so does CBS.

TOS-R is out on Netflix in Europe here, enjoying most of the new effects but the better film scans and color reproduction for the live action is the better aspect for me.

Do you think they will ever make a de-mastered version using the reconditioned Smithsonian model for reference?

A wishful approach would be to film the restored ship model under flat light to capture the albedo and then track a 3d model on top for digital re-lighting and effects in post. The result would be more authentic since it's the original ship and the matte edges & motion blur would look natural.

 

[Kor]

I'm a millenial, and I prefer the original effects.

When I had an SD CRT TV, I thought the new CG effects looked pretty spiffy. But on a larger HD TV, I find that they look like a Playstation 2 game and lack that filmic, substantive quality that I demand when watching a bigger TV. So I don't really enjoy them anymore.

Kor

 

[Warped9]

It'll never happen because almost everyone prefers the new FX except for a few older Trekkies, and so does CBS.

Never say never.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I swear, sometimes all Trek fans seem to do is be negative about the thing they supposedly love.

Fans love the original production--all of it, not poor, cartoony FX that is as out of place next to the live action work as a fly floating in a bowl of soup.

 

[RAMA]

Fans love the original production--all of it, not poor, cartoony FX that is as out of place next to the live action work as a fly floating in a bowl of soup.

Not supported by any sort of poll I've seen. There was another one on facebook recently and the number that were either fine with both FX or the new CGI far outnumbered those that only preferred the old FX.

RAMA

Never say never.

Never, ever

 

[RAMA]

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/remastered.283591/

I'm a millenial, and I prefer the original effects.

When I had an SD CRT TV, I thought the new CG effects looked pretty spiffy. But on a larger HD TV, I find that they look like a Playstation 2 game and lack that filmic, substantive quality that I demand when watching a bigger TV. So I don't really enjoy them anymore.

Kor

 

[Kemaiku]

You'll notice that the effects have had little to no impact on how people percieve the story of each episode. If they didn't like it, the effects didn't do much but make them watch it again. If they liked it, they just watched it more without altering their opinion of it.

Negativity is limited to the remastering work itself, and plenty of very specific criticisms have been made (with supplied comparisons) over certain episodes, scenes, changes and methods used.

If Parmaount miraculously found all of the original model film elements, nostalgia or not as a factor, you can bet they'd have a new boxset out to cash in on it, and plenty of collectors would buy it to make it work.

The model shots would show a more drastic improvement than the live action footage, with them able to keep the full detail of each element in a way they never could before. (They might replace the starfield.)

The flipside to that might be that they take all the criticism under consideration and cash in on 4K as well doing another "split" set with old and new effects. Just with both of them being significantly better.

And I don't see half as much arguing over TNG-R, which did change several things as well as having an entire season of poor work done to it. Paramount follows all this chatter.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I don't need any of this new-fangled Super-HD 4K mumbo jumbo. I prefer to watch TOS from my 17" Black and White Zenith TV, as originally viewed. If I can't quite make out what's going on, then I can just imagine it.