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Remake a Series

Which Trek television series would you remake?

  • TOS

    Votes: 10 10.1%
  • TAS

    Votes: 4 4.0%
  • TNG

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • DS9

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • VOY

    Votes: 20 20.2%
  • ENT

    Votes: 17 17.2%
  • I'd make a new series.

    Votes: 37 37.4%
  • None.

    Votes: 9 9.1%

  • Total voters
    99
Yes, they're taking EXISTING lines and mentions of the past and making stories from them. ENT on the other hand required having to invent necessary stuff in the past that was never mentioned in any of the other series, and that led to the canon-violations stuff the canon-nutters harp on about. And even things that WERE mentioned about the past in TOS+ (like "atomic" weapons), if kept, would have made the show so constrained that it wouldn't be worth making.

Take the Wars prequels for example, they worked because NOTHING had been stated about their past aside from one brief mention of the Clone Wars. Aside from that one mention within the first movie they were free to do whatever they wanted. Not so with ENT. ENT had to violate canon otherwise it would've been too constrained by what we knew of the past to tell a story. Therefore it's either stick with canon and have a worthless show, or toss canon aside and have a show hated for it's very existence no matter how well done it could've been. And this aside from the fundamental meaningless-ness of doing a "Birth of the Federation" story anyways since there'd be no real drama or tension.

We'd never have to feel bad if the good guys lost a battle because we'd know in the end the Feds would win anyways, we'd never have to fear a real loss or anything since we all know how it would end. You can say all you want about "but the characters would be fair game" but it's still meaningless when you know how it'll go for the good guys in terms of the big picture anyways.
 
Well, what would you have done? kept going forward? making Trek like Bond and his gadgets, getting more and more hi tech and ridiculous?
When I used to play X-Wing and Tie Fighter on PC, back in the mid 90s, it taught me a lesson that I apply to the way I regard Trek: I could have the thing on God mode - invulnerable, all weapons, etc. I could sit off the bow of a star destroyer and eventually blow it away. Ridiculous. But even with those advantages, there were some missions that were still damned hard to finish successfully - mostly escort missions.

You can have all the fancy toys in the world, but it won't help you if you can't control what your people are doing. Or what other people who have the same toys are doing. Or against other, less tangible problems. Like when the great power you control begins to corrupt some of you into something other than what you believe you stand for.

Written well, there's no problem with carrying Trek further into the future. Timefleet, galaxy-wide unity, humans augmenting themselves with tech or genetics - it's all good, so long as the stories continue to relate to the human experience.
 
Yes, they're taking EXISTING lines and mentions of the past and making stories from them. ENT on the other hand required having to invent necessary stuff in the past that was never mentioned in any of the other series, and that led to the canon-violations stuff the canon-nutters harp on about. And even things that WERE mentioned about the past in TOS+ (like "atomic" weapons), if kept, would have made the show so constrained that it wouldn't be worth making.

Take the Wars prequels for example, they worked because NOTHING had been stated about their past aside from one brief mention of the Clone Wars. Aside from that one mention within the first movie they were free to do whatever they wanted. Not so with ENT. ENT had to violate canon otherwise it would've been too constrained by what we knew of the past to tell a story. Therefore it's either stick with canon and have a worthless show, or toss canon aside and have a show hated for it's very existence no matter how well done it could've been. And this aside from the fundamental meaningless-ness of doing a "Birth of the Federation" story anyways since there'd be no real drama or tension.

We'd never have to feel bad if the good guys lost a battle because we'd know in the end the Feds would win anyways, we'd never have to fear a real loss or anything since we all know how it would end. You can say all you want about "but the characters would be fair game" but it's still meaningless when you know how it'll go for the good guys in terms of the big picture anyways.
How can you say that ENT violated canon when there was nothing to violate?
 
Not using "atomic" weapons, not having "primitive" ships, Vulcans being anything other than what they were in TOS+, having visual communications, etc.
 
The "primitive atomic weapons" line was a product of the 1960s, when nuclear weapons and power were still new and shiny. The average person at the time probably couldn't comprehend a source of energy more powerful or destructive than atomic.

Complaining about there being visual communications is just silly. We have that now. That line was just another product of a more primitive decade.
 
And yet, if they changed those things (for the sake of keeping up with tech we have TODAY) it would still make the entire series irredeemable to the audience in keeping with what TOS said.
 
Well, I would remake ENT, only because I know more about it than any other series, and I think the basic concept was really solid and could have made for a fantastic series. The problem was in the execution. I posted this a couple months ago in the ENT forum, but I haven't really changed my mind on any of it since then, so I might as well just repost it.

This list is more about the characters than the plot, but the plot is already pretty obvious--Earth is expanding, the Vulcans are wary, the Andorians and Tellarites are bickering, the Orions are scheming, the Klingons are marauding, and the Romulans are behind the scenes, plotting to destabilize them all so they can conquer the region.

  • Earth wouldn't be so helpless. The hero ship being Earth's newest and most advanced ship is fine, but it being the only exploratory vessel was beyond stupid. There would be human colonies in Alpha Centauri, Vega, and Sirius, and these four systems would have a "Home Fleet," a non-exploratory fleet used primarily for defense and policing.
  • The hero ship would not be called Enterprise. My personal choice is Endeavour, a classic ship name that hasn't really been used in Trek. Plus there's an historical quote by James Cook that would be perfect for its dedication plaque: "Ambition leads me not only farther than any other man has been before me, but as far as I think it possible for man to go."
  • Give the Endeavour a real mission from the start. I had no problem with them having to return Klaang, so that could remain the basis for the pilot. But the trip to Qo'noS would take much longer. After that, the Endeavour would venture out to A) seek out new worlds for Earth's booming population to colonize, B) secure diplomatic ties with other spacefaring races aside from the Vulcans, such as the Andorians and Tellarites, and C) watch out for any potential threats to Earth's safety.
  • No Temporal Cold War, and no Suliban. The Orion Syndicate would be the early villains.
  • The Romulans would be influencing events from the very beginning. Their attempts to weaken the Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites, so that they would have an easier time of conquering them, would be gradually revealed over the course of the first few seasons, leading up to the Romulan War in the later seasons.
  • The pulse cannons and non-photonic torpedoes we saw in the pilot and early episodes would remain the Endeavour's primary weapons throughout the majority of the series. Eventually they'd receive some upgrades during the war, mainly thanks to the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites sharing some of their weapons technology. There would be no phase pistols, either. The EM-33 would be Starfleet's standard sidearm, and it wouldn't have a stun setting.
  • There would be talk of scientists developing transporters, but they wouldn't be ready for use by anyone for some time. That means no transporters on the Endeavour.
  • Archer would still be played by Bakula. However, he wouldn't come across as an inconsistent, irritable jerk with zero charisma. This is supposed to be James T. Kirk's childhood hero, for God's sake.
  • Trip would be slightly older (but not outside of Trinneer's age range) to make his close friendship with the decade-plus older Archer a bit more believable. He would also be Archer's first officer.
  • T'Pol would remain as science officer, but would be outside of the Starfleet chain of command. Her presence was specifically requested by Starfleet, but only because there isn't a single human being alive as qualified as her. Unbeknownst to her, she has a Romulan father (one of those unused ideas that I really liked), and has always had problems suppressing her emotions. Eventually her relationship with Trip, and the fondness she develops for her fellow crewmates, would lead to her resigning from the Vulcan High Command and join Starfleet.
  • Travis would be older, and more jaded and cynical. Gone would be the wide-eyed "wow, neato!" naivete. Born and raised on an interstellar cargo ship, constantly in fear of pirate attacks, he knows how the universe operates. He's been with Starfleet for the better part of a decade, but is only a Lieutenant JG because of his attitude and a desire to remain a simple helmsman. His hands-on knowledge of the space lanes and various species out there would be one of Archer's most useful tools.
  • Major Malcolm Reed of the United Earth Marine Corps (no more MACOs) would be the weapons/security officer, commander of the Marine detachment assigned to the Endeavour (as both the security team and as extra muscle in case the ship gets into any trouble), and Archer's third-in-command. He would also still be a member of the proto-Section 31 (yeah, yeah, hindsight's 20/20--it was a good idea). He grew up in a rich and aristocratic English family and can trace his lineage all the way back to the Crusades. Bored with his life in England, he joins the Marines in search of excitement and is recruited into the Section at some point in his career. The Section already knows of the Romulans, and Reed's primary mission is to gather intel on them at every opportunity. He covertly sends back sensitive information, and even sabotages events on occasion if he finds them potentially harmful to Earth's security. Eventually Reed's growing respect for Archer, his friendship with Trip, and his budding relationship with Hoshi Sato (I know, I'm terrible) would lead to his leaving the Section (well, his trying to do so, anyway).
  • Phlox would not be a Denobulan, but a human by the name of Philip Knox (ain't I clever? :p). An older, spirited man, he's a former enlistee who served as a corpsman in the UEMC before leaving to go to medical school. After spending some time in the Interspecies Medical Exchange, Knox has learned quite a lot about both human and alien physiology, and is excited to meet new lifeforms and expand his medical knowledge.
  • Hoshi Sato would be descended from an Augment (an idea that, I think, JiNX also mentioned at some point in the ENT forum). Her intelligence and physicality are above human norms--she's not superhuman, thanks to 150 years of her Augment DNA being mixed with regular DNA, but she's not quite normal, either. She particularly excels in linguistics, and mastered every major human language before graduating high school. She can pick up the sounds and structure of a language far more quickly than most people, which makes her the perfect communications officer. A byproduct of her Augment heritage was a somewhat aggressive streak during her youth--this got her into trouble during her early days in Starfleet, after she broke her CO's arm, and since then she's done her best to suppress such behavior, hiding it under a nervous, quiet facade. Still, this repressed aggression draws her naturally to the Marines, particularly Reed, with whom she eventually starts a relationship.
But, honestly, at this point I think I'd be more interested in doing a series about a ship and crew set between ENT and the Kelvin era. That's one of the least explored eras in Trek, and one I've been the most interested in for some time, now.

Skywalker,

Love the ideas. This would've been great to watch. Though I have to admit I always wished they had kept the Klingons out of ENT. I think switching the Andorians for the Klingons in "Broken Bow" would've been neater.
 
Well, yes people do say that FP did have a lot to do with TOS and LiS did inspire VOY a lot.

Like I said, B5 had the same type of "building a joint-community" story with it's warring races and the like and as such it's the chief example ENT's own take on the Birth of the Federation would be. As such the core similarities would draw comparisons and inevitable negativity from the fanbase in the form of "they're just ripping off B5 with thei insterllar community stuff" no matter how well it could be done by the ENT team.

As for politics, ENT did try that even in it's first season and got nothing but negative reactions for it which would discourage any further attempts. Why bother doing it when our every attempt has been rejected by the fandom no matter what? At best they'd just get "this is nice and all but it's not what Trek is about because it's just about the humans".

Most fans just blathered on about "I don't care about Vulcans and Andorians being enemies, I don't care about how Humans and Vulcans weren't always okay with each other, I don't care that maybe there were other enemy races, I just want to see fights with the Romulans!".

Spock said they were primitive ships with primitive weapons, meaning even the effects would have to be even more dated from what we saw in TOS otherwise it's just inciting another "The tech and effects are too good looking! This is a slap in the face to everyone who worked on TOS!".

The war couldn't be done well, if canon was preserved, because this means that the opposing sides would never even meet or anything. They wouldn't even be able to use the Remans as soldiers the Allies could see because the fandom would be in an up-roar over the Remans being in the war even though it would make sense. Why? Because TOS never said the Remans were in the war.

The Coalition of Planets, Vulcan Reformation, Andor-Vulcan tensions, none of this stuff violated canon yet STILL got nothing but negativity from the fandom. It's all the proof needed to know that they'd never accept anything the staff could come up with no matter HOW well done or canon-friendly it was.

As mentioned by Myasishchev, the Xindi made the "fans" have a field day even though they don't violate canon either. If it had been the Klingons or the Romulans who did it, the fans would have howled their guts out over it too since no other show mentioned Florida getting zapped.

As for naming the ship Enterprise, they'd just incit further fan wrath by doing so because they'd go "TOS+ never mentioned a ship with that name, so it doesn't exist!" along with "TOS+ never said there were famous people back then, and if they HAD existed they would've been mentioned! The whole show is a slap in the face to everyone who made every episode of Trek before this series!".

Just because some fans might not like ideas doesn't mean these ideas aren't bad. Still, what does B5 have to do with Star Trek? And I don't think B5 would necessarily be the model for a community building interstellar storyline. There are a lot of sci-fi properties the writers could look at, but I'm assuming they would look at real events first. Such as the Coalition of Planets being something like the League of Nations, a failed forerunner to the United Nations, which could perhaps be a model for the early Federation.

True, I had my issues with naming the NX-01 Enterprise because it didn't seem to be a ship named that mentioned before, however someone-writers and/or fans got around that by pointing out that the NCC-1701 could be the first Federation starship with that name, which left it wide open for Earth ships to be named whatever. However, I think it was a lazy choice that invited comparisons between Kirk's ship and Archer's.

What's primitive to Spock in the 23rd century would still be advanced to us in the 21st century, so I don't see what the problem would be showing the Romulan War. If some fans thought it violated canon, so what? They would still watch the show more than likely.

Obviously you can get around the never seeing a Romulan thing somewhat by having the identity of the Romulans being a closely guarded secret, and/or by having every one that seen a Romulan draw their last breath. Also, showing that the Romulans don't take prisoners, except in a few instances, could do that. Or having them in full armor that perhaps disintegrates if compromised, sort of like the Chigs from SAAB. I mean, keeping them fully armored, like the Breen, could add some extra menace to them without violating canon. The Romulans could've also used automated ships, which was established in the Babel storyline on ENT.

Also using the Remans as shock troops, and even though Riker sort of messed that up in NEM by insinuating that the Feds don't know much about the Remans, the writers could just chalk it up that he forgot to mention the Romulan War, or that even though Earth fought the Remans, they learned little about them. The Remans fought to the death and were hard to capture so it stays somewhat true to what Riker said in NEM. There's always ways around stuff if you tweak it correctly.

And a few canon violations aren't such a big deal if the story is well done. TOS was written in the 60s and ENT in the 21st century so the writers had to accomodate for that. DS9 and ENT moved the date of the Eugenics Wars and I didn't see much of a firestorm about that because most fans understood that it wouldn't work leaving it in 1996. I think fans would understand the changes regarding visual communications in the Earth-Romulan War. But even with that, maybe the Romulans had the technology but didn't use it, maybe they only used vocal communication as another way to play mind games with the humans?

One other thing, I think you're assuming that every Trek fan is a TOS fan and that's not true. I like TOS but my favorite Trek shows are DS9 and TNG. And even though I am a TOS fan, I don't know every episode line by line, or care enough if minor things are tweaked to synch it in line with current technology or current events.
 
If they did use real life events for the ENT series it probably just would receive an even MORE negative reaction, they'd get a "They're just ripping off Babylon 5!" critique along with a "These guys are such lousy writers they have to use real history and set it in space because they aren't good enough to come up with anything new!" bashing as well. It just isn't worth it because the fans wouldn't accept ANYTHING they did.

Like I said, if they had given it a different name it would just be "TOS never said there was a ship named the Endeavor 100 years ago! Horrific canon violation!" and the fans would still be complaining. As for the ship's tech level if they had down-graded it to what Spock said it should be like the audience would just be "They ripped of Babylon 5 AGAIN in how the Earth ships are less advanced than Alien ships!"

If they did do the Romulan War they'd just invite comparisons to the Dominion War in DS9 except it would just be more negative reactions because they'd be all "This isn't as cool looking, the ships aren't as fast and the weapon effects all suck!" because they were being true to what TOS said. Or if they didn't go by TOS said they'd just get a "horrific canon violation!" no matter how well done it was. Heck, Spock said that the weaponry used back then was "atomic", meaning they couldn't even use nuclear weapons we have TODAY.

And the main sticking point of the war was that no one, including the audience, knew what the Romulans looked like. Since we already do that just makes the story meaningless to begin with because we already know everything about them and would have no investment in the characters' wondering about the Romulans themselves. As for using the Remans, TOS never explicitly said they were in the war meaning any use of them would just invite more "horrific canon violation!" canon-nutters to take a swipe at the show.

It's a lose-lose situation, either update Trek's past for modern sensibilities and alienate the fandom, or keep things as they were the way TOS said so and alienate everyone else. It's just not worth it.
 
Not using "atomic" weapons, not having "primitive" ships, Vulcans being anything other than what they were in TOS+, having visual communications, etc.
Firstly, atomic weapons don't have to have a large yield, and the photon torpedoes could easily be seen as atomic weapons. What the hell do you think a photon is anyway, it is an atom. Why couldn't the Vulcans have undergone a reformation. There's nothing in canon to say they did or didn't. And we didn't have visual communications with the Romulans, that's not to say we didn't have visual communication with anybody else.

Was there nothing about ENT that you liked?
 
Photon Torpedoes are Anti-Matter weapons, not atomic.

The Vulcans came off as mega-conservatives in TOS who hadn't changed their ways in centuries, not as a former galactic superpower who had recently scaled back on the military and left it all to the humans.

Spock said that no one had visual communications in Balance of Terror, not the Romulans or any of the allies.

Also it was called the "Earth-Romulan War", meaning that for some reason the humans were the only ones who did any real fighting meaning that the Coalition of Planets thing also made little sense otherwise it would've been called the "Coalition War" or something. So again what was said in TOS didn't match up with what we saw.

It's all the same conclusion: A prequel for Trek is just an inherently bad idea.

I had little problem with ENT as it was, I'm just saying there's no way to do a "proper" prequel to TOS the way everyone keeps saying it could be done.
 
Hoshi Sato would be descended from an Augment (an idea that, I think, JiNX also mentioned at some point in the ENT forum).
With regrets, that wasn't me. And I really do regret it because it's an awesome idea! :bolian:
 
  • Phlox would not be a Denobulan, but a human by the name of Philip Knox (ain't I clever? :p). An older, spirited man, he's a former enlistee who served as a corpsman in the UEMC before leaving to go to medical school. After spending some time in the Interspecies Medical Exchange, Knox has learned quite a lot about both human and alien physiology, and is excited to meet new lifeforms and expand his medical knowledge.

Ah, sorry mate, it looks like I accidentally plagiarised you! I've got a cantankerous doctor called 'Philip Locke' in my fan fiction, an alternate version of Enterprise. Plus 'my' Malcolm Reed is a Lt. in the United Earth Military Authority Marine Division.

I must have seen one of your earlier posts and been influenced by it. Sorry!

As to the difficulties as to making a prequel series, I agree with Anwar that there are a number of problems. I do not agree that it is inherently a bad idea. One problem I had with ENT was that, rather than face the challenges such an approach presented, the makers gave us another version of what we had seen before, with a few cosmetic differences (See, we don't have phasers. We have phase pistols instead! Completely different!).

If the makers were willing to shake up the format a bit, ENT could have been really special. Instead the biggest difference was that it had a theme song. Whoop de do.
 
Firstly, atomic weapons don't have to have a large yield, and the photon torpedoes could easily be seen as atomic weapons. What the hell do you think a photon is anyway, it is an atom.

Uh... it is not. Except in an mass-energy equivalence sort of way.

True, any weapon can be technically accurately described as "photonic," since all weapons that we know of derive their destructive power from electromagnetic effects, which photons are the intermediary for. Dynamite is strictly speaking a "photonic" device. I mean, heck, a fist is "photonic" in that regard. But that wouldn't be very specific.

So "photonic" as an adjective should probably be reserved for weapons which theoretically rely on a total mass conversion via a matter-antimatter annihilation reaction, or the term loses any meaning at all.
 
Firstly, atomic weapons don't have to have a large yield, and the photon torpedoes could easily be seen as atomic weapons. What the hell do you think a photon is anyway, it is an atom.

Uh... it is not. Except in an mass-energy equivalence sort of way.

True, any weapon can be technically accurately described as "photonic," since all weapons that we know of derive their destructive power from electromagnetic effects, which photons are the intermediary for. Dynamite is strictly speaking a "photonic" device. I mean, heck, a fist is "photonic" in that regard. But that wouldn't be very specific.

So "photonic" as an adjective should probably be reserved for weapons which theoretically rely on a total mass conversion via a matter-antimatter annihilation reaction, or the term loses any meaning at all.
I stand corrected on that point. Damn it, man! I'm a preacher, not a physicist!
 
  • Phlox would not be a Denobulan, but a human by the name of Philip Knox (ain't I clever? :p). An older, spirited man, he's a former enlistee who served as a corpsman in the UEMC before leaving to go to medical school. After spending some time in the Interspecies Medical Exchange, Knox has learned quite a lot about both human and alien physiology, and is excited to meet new lifeforms and expand his medical knowledge.
Ah, sorry mate, it looks like I accidentally plagiarised you! I've got a cantankerous doctor called 'Philip Locke' in my fan fiction, an alternate version of Enterprise. Plus 'my' Malcolm Reed is a Lt. in the United Earth Military Authority Marine Division.

I must have seen one of your earlier posts and been influenced by it. Sorry!
Meh, no worries. I'm probably never going to get around to actually putting my "revamped" ENT on paper, anyway. :lol:
 
^Ironically, of course, real world primitive atomic weapons are tremendously more destructive than "photonic" ones are ordinarily depicted. Then again, no one ever said that the antimatter charge could not be arbitrarily small--except the TNGTM, which if it has a 50% annihilation efficiency contains would output the energy of about one thousand Nagasakis (the plutonium device's fission reaction providing close to one gram's worth of mass-to-energy conversion). So despite what Anwar says, I think primitive atomic weapons would look perfectly cool and in line with what we've come to expect; done realistically, they'd look quite spectacular (brief flash of light in the vacuum, hulls of vessels blown apart glowing orange-white, a cloud of broken bodies spilling out into space... c'mon, that's fun stuff.).

Anwar, I think the canonistas would be fine with anything so long as it tried to avoid conflicts. Antimatter weapons, being dramatically identical to atomic weapons which would probably be equally inaccurately portrayed, weren't necessary to Enterprise, so people--including me--had a problem with them. The Xindi weren't necessary because the Klingons, Romulans, and Orions existed.

A whole arc could've been done around the Orions--I find them somewhat interesting, because they went from a mid-range power centered around green-skinned Orions to a very weak power in TOS to a governmentless, interspecies coalition of gangsters between ENT and DS9. I always wondered how that happened; my favorite explanation is that Earth completely demolished the Orions' predatory state, indeed that Orion was Earth's first victim on its way to the top, with Romulus next.
 
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