Refit Enterprise

[Computer Voice]

Watched TMP Directors Edition at the weekend, for the first time in a long time.

At one point, Decker tell Kirk that "this is almost a completely new Enterprise", something Kirk obviously already knew!

But, just how how much of the original Enterprise was still there in the refit. It's quite hard to reconcile the two ships, despite their obvious similarities.

The nacelles and pylons are obviously totally new. But what of the secondary hull, saucer and neck? Kirk not knowing the whereabouts of one of the turboshafts suggests the interior of the saucer is radically different.

If the refit is really almost entirely a new ship, then why isn't it actually new ship - why bother with a refit?

 

[Kevin Wolff]

I just posted about this in another thread. In the 50-year mission vol 1 book they stated that they were afraid to call it a completely new Enterprise at the time, that fans wouldn't accept a new ship, so they inserted the "refit" narrative so that it was technically the same ship, despite the design being sized differently and all the other changes.

 

[FormerLurker]

Some kid took it apart, and when they put it back together, they needed to add stuff because the kid ran off with some parts that they couldn't get the normal aftermarket replacements for.

 

[sbk1234]

In my mind, I figured they intended a lesser refit, looking something like the designs that had been made for Star Trek: Phase Two. Then the designs kept getting changed and advanced more and more until it was the same only in name and number. You know engineers. They love to change things.

 

[Lance]

^ Agree. My take was always that in the inner structure somewhere there is still some 'base' that existed pre-refit, but the team behind it kept bolting more and new things on top, totally reconfiguring it.

In the eighteenth century navies, it was enough for the wood from a vessel to be salvaged and used in the construction of a new one to be able to officially call it the same ship.

 

[Computer Voice]

All sounds suspiciously like trigger's broom to me...

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[F. King Daniel]

Perhaps some of the saucer superstructure could be the same? But otherwise, the refit's a hand wave to explain an entirely new look for Trek.

Somehow it was such a mighty Enterprise refit that it reached out through space and gave the Klingon D-7 battlecruisers a ton of details they never used to have, and mutated Klingon spines to go all the way up and over their heads and connect to their noses.

It's the Enterprise from TOS in the way Robin Curtis is the Saavik of Wrath of Khan.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

In my mind, I figured they intended a lesser refit, looking something like the designs that had been made for Star Trek: Phase Two. Then the designs kept getting changed and advanced more and more until it was the same only in name and number. You know engineers. They love to change things.

Exactly. They originally intended just a paint job and Lt. Commander McQuarrie's request for a radical new design was rejected. But the Core of engineers didn't give up that easily. They hired outside contractors and all of sudden they had a new ship and were over budget by some figure that only Spock could calculate.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

Perhaps some of the saucer superstructure could be the same? But otherwise, the refit's a hand wave to explain an entirely new look for Trek.

That's pretty much it.
Someone did some clever concept art of the refit under construction which suggests they were building the new saucer over the old and that you could still see the not as yet disassembled old panels underneath. Not very practical but it looked cool.

 

[jaime]

That's pretty much it.
Someone did some clever concept art of the refit under construction which suggests they were building the new saucer over the old and that you could still see the not as yet disassembled old panels underneath. Not very practical but it looked cool.

The same thing suggested it's the same engineering section...just moved back when they stuck the new neck on and built the new innards and nav deflector on. Engines, struts, innards neck and bridge all new. Decker really wasn't lying when he said it was almost totally new.

 

[jaime]

All sounds suspiciously like trigger's broom to me...

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Do you know how often I reference this talking about reboots? Thank you for posting it.

 

[UssGlenn]

I like the theory that part of the peace treaty with the Klingons specified limits on new ship building. So instead they do extensive refits, and it's technically not a newly built ship.

 

[jaime]

I like the theory that part of the peace treaty with the Klingons specified limits on new ship building. So instead they do extensive refits, and it's technically not a newly built ship.

The Prometheus was obviously a sneaky way to get 3 ships done. Sounds a bit bit like 'through deck cruisers'

 

[Kor]

It's hand-wavium to explain the big differences. We just have to accept what they say and move on, instead of getting bogged down with the futile exercise of trying to make in-universe sense of what we see depicted on screen.

Kor

 

[jaime]

It's hand-wavium to explain the big differences. We just have to accept what they say and move on, instead of getting bogged down with the futile exercise of trying to make in-universe sense of what we see depicted on screen.

Kor

A lot of people do that, and have fun theorising the in universe sense too.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

This kind of speculation is just for fun. It's like group writing fan faction. I think that's where most of the conflict is coming from. Those who like to imagine possibilities and tie together the "hand-wavium" in terms of story history are getting on the nerves of those think we are here to officially declare what is canon or predict the new show's premise, etc.

 

[Richard Baker]

^ Agree. My take was always that in the inner structure somewhere there is still some 'base' that existed pre-refit, but the team behind it kept bolting more and new things on top, totally reconfiguring it.

In the eighteenth century navies, it was enough for the wood from a vessel to be salvaged and used in the construction of a new one to be able to officially call it the same ship.

I recall reading somewhere that the original Enterprise materials were reused for the new configuration. The refit has every dimension altered so the original structures would be of little use except to maintain a connection to the original.

I guess it is like the Rock Bands have to keep at least one original member to be able to still use the name.

 

[arch101]

There are some little things that the Uber-Geek would notice. Like, that the Transporter Room is in exactly the same place off a main corridor as it was on TOS. Also, when Kirk is talking to Decker in the corridor, look over Kirk's shoulder. At the corridor intersection, you can clearly make out the rectangular shape of the corridor as it was in TOS.
Crews quarters are still on Deck 5. The railing on the Hanger Deck looks distinctly TOS in design. I assume all these nods were intended. Clearly the same ship with major upgrades.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Someone did some clever concept art of the refit under construction which suggests they were building the new saucer over the old and that you could still see the not as yet disassembled old panels underneath. Not very practical but it looked cool.

Something like this?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/constitution-refit.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/constitution/constitution-superimposed.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/constitution/connie-ani.gif

 

[Kevin Wolff]

Something like this?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/constitution-refit.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/constitution/constitution-superimposed.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/constitution/connie-ani.gif

No it was a concept painting looking down at the saucer with a space crew working if I remember correctly. Part of the refit hull is not skinned and you can see the original saucer hull beneath it. Again, unlikely they'd work that way, but it looked neat. I can't remember where I saw it.