Redemption: Was Non-Interference the Correct Path?

[Praxius]

Hindsight 20/20 and all that, in regards to getting involved in the civil war, I didn't see it much more different in interference as when the Klingons swarmed DS9 to "Help" patrol the area and scan for Changelings on passing ships. This was a cover for their real agenda of hitting Cardassia, but at the time when nobody knew what was going on, their argument was that they figured the Federation would be happy to have their "Help" against the Dominion..... despite the area being clearly Federation Space.

Picard merely setup a blockade along the Klingon/Romulan Border to stop any incoming ships from Romulan territory.... meanwhile the Klingons roamed all over the Bajoran sector and harassed every passing ship and people on DS9.

Now if the Klingons felt fine doing this in Federation Space, why would the legitimate government of the Klingon Empire not accept help from the Federation against clear enemies of the State?

DS9/Sisko didn't ask the Klingons for help in the Bajor Sector.... yet I do believe Gowron asked Picard for help and he refused.

Perhaps the difference is that the Federation has the Prime Directive, while the Klingons do not.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's all about the fact that if the Romulans weren't involved it would be by definition an internal conflict. There's a difference between helping a government suppress a rebellion and helping them fight off an enemy. If the wormhole to Gamma had been in Klingon space, the Federation would have helped.

Funny thing about the word 'Legitimate'. It can apply to the worst dictator in the world as long as said dictator currently possesses the largest guns.

 

[T'Girl]

... in his role as arbiter he was acting as a individual ...

Picard wasn't wearing civilian garb when he performed the arbiter ritual.

No he wasn't, and yes as arbiter he was acting as a individual.

South of where I live velour there is a large combined US Army and US Air Force Base. It very common to see military personnel going about their off-base personal business while attired in their uniforms.

That Picard would engage in a personal activity (being arbiter) while in uniform doesn't automatically mean he was acting on behalf of Starfleet or the Federation.

 

[BillJ]

That Picard would engage in a personal activity (being arbiter) while in uniform doesn't automatically mean he was acting on behalf of Starfleet or the Federation.

But in something so vital to Federation interests, he should've removed the uniform. To, at least, give the appearance of impartiality.

Honestly though, once K'mpec gave Picard the job, there was no way Duras was going to come away with leadership of the High Council. That was why Picard was chosen to begin with and why K'mpec made the threat of the Federation/Klingon alliance crumbling if he refused the job.

Duras could've made Picard's job more difficult by not trying to blow him up. But Duras wasn't the brightest bulb in the Empire.

 

[Timo]

...Yet had the investigation into this attack uncovered Gowron as the man who was poisoning K'Mpec, Duras might have benefited. Picard stopped short of investigating this, despite his promise to the dying leader; we don't know which of the upstarts really killed their predecessor.

Was Duras' bomb attack to blame for Picard stopping to investigate Gowron's role in the poisoning? The attack also revealed the Romulan connection - so it would seem logical that the bombing was actually Gowron's doing all along, intended to achieve three things beneficial to him: frame Duras, bring attention to Duras' Romulan sympathies, and throw the investigators off Gowron's own scent.

Wholly separately, Duras would have to kill K'Ehleyr to stop the other line of inquiry. But that killing was not an act demonstrating stupidity (as the bomb attack would have been, were it Duras' own doing), and only backfired because K'Ehleyr had time to utter some final words. Indeed, the deed appears rather cleverly conducted, as the Starfleet vessel allowed this homicide to take place inside her! Duras seems to have known a number of passwords and dirty tricks...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

Of course the bomb attack might have been meant to take Gowron out so Duras would win by default. Or as Timo points out an attempt by Gowron to deflect attention from his as a suspect in the assissination of K'mpec.

 

[SoM]

Moreover, there's one further point - while Gowron might have been happy for Fed help in the short term, it would do him no good to have outsiders openly do his dirty work for him in the longer term. If Duras & co were secretly Romulan puppets, he would appeared to be an outright Federation vassal.

Consequently, while he grew more hostile later on - trying to retroactively remove the Federation taint from his assession - he might have been "forced" into active hostility to the Federation much earlier and under shakier cause than happened in DS9.

 

[velour]

That Picard would engage in a personal activity (being arbiter) while in uniform doesn't automatically mean he was acting on behalf of Starfleet or the Federation.

But in something so vital to Federation interests, he should've removed the uniform. To, at least, give the appearance of impartiality.

You're right. It wasn't as though Picard was doing some shopping or going out on the town, or whatever it is that he does during his personal time.

Picard was performing a formal solemn ceremony. His wearing of his Starfleet uniform in such a setting gave his action the imprimatur of Starfleet.

As for the Klingons, I don't know why they didn't have Picard wear appropriate Klingon attire when he performed the ritual. At the very least, out of respect.

I got the impression that the Klingons had gotten so pathetic that they didn't bother. After all, why would a supposedly proud warrior race resort to asking a foreign alien to pick their leader in the first place? Just pathetic.

Honestly though, once K'mpec gave Picard the job, there was no way Duras was going to come away with leadership of the High Council. That was why Picard was chosen to begin with and why K'mpec made the threat of the Federation/Klingon alliance crumbling if he refused the job.

Duras could've made Picard's job more difficult by not trying to blow him up. But Duras wasn't the brightest bulb in the Empire.

You're right again. Picard came up with some slick explanation as to why he couldn't choose Toral over Gowran. Gowran was Picard's and the Fed's -- and I guess K'mpec's -- man all along. It was Gowran or bust.

From what I remember, Toral actually made a good case for why a foreigner shouldn't be making the pick. He said something to the effect that the Klingons should determine their own fate and not allow the Federation to so. He actually sounded like a proud Klingon, even though he might have had other ulterior motives for wanting to be Klingon leader.

I know it wasn't intended to be so by the writers, but I thought Toral displayed more honor than Gowran and the other Klingon fat cats.

 

[MacLeod]

^Well to be fair whilst Picard was Arbiter of Succession and decided who would be the next Klingon Chancellor. It was a Klingon that decided the outcome, Worf by killing Duras left no other choice for Picard than Gowron. And it was Worf who decided who would be his successor after becoming Chancellor by killing Gowron, Martok, it's seems as if Worf is a bit of a King maker.

 

[Anwar]

The TNG Prime Directive sucks ass.

What should they do, go around handing out Warp Cores to cavemen?

Not getting involved was probably the best choice, since it would've made Gowron look like a weak Federation Puppet. Having the Feds simply keep the Romulans from further interfering so the Klingons could resolve things on their own was the best choice.

 

[BillJ]

The TNG Prime Directive sucks ass.

What should they do, go around handing out Warp Cores to cavemen?

That is pretty much a non-starter since that wasn't a piece of the TOS Prime Directive.

 

[Anwar]

In TOS they had no problem going to primitive worlds and offering to advance their technological state.

 

[Marsden]

...In practice, not firing on Klingon ships was probably the smart move from the UFP point of view. In terms of the alliance, letting Gowron be killed by his rivals might well be a lesser evil than being caught in the act of fighting against Klingons.
Timo Saloniemi

Well, the Klingon culture is a pastiche of Samurai and Vikings, both of those groups fought wars against each other but as soon as an outside party invaded, all previous agrievances were suspended to repel the invaders. I think if the Enterprise fired on a Klingon, all Klingons, even the ones they were saving, would feel the need to retaliate in some way. In other words, Klingons can kill Klingons but anyone else and they don't like it.

Plus, how could Gowron go through history as a Federation puppet?

Why does it suprise anyone in the least in a culture all about fighting to the death about everything in life to have Uncle Jean put you on the throne?
Of course he's going to say he did it himself, probably he killed 100 warriors with both his arms tied behind his back with only a knife in his teeth, that's what Klingons would expect.
Otherwise, he would appear weak, why would the Klingons follow a weak leader? That was what was so damning for the Duras, the fact of their weakness was exposed by showing they needed help from Romulans.

 

[Kruezerman]

Gowron asked the Federation for help though.

 

[T'Girl]

^ So did the Duras sisters.

 

[Kruezerman]

The sisters asked Picard to not name Gowron Chancellor, Gowron asked Picard to help fight against the Duras.

 

[Anwar]

And at the time the Duras' had enough support to claim to be the rightful leaders of the Empire. So Picard going to Gowron's aid would've made him look weak and illegitimate.

Gowron himself realized this, which is why he later edited the Federation aid out of the history books.

 

[T'Girl]

The sisters asked Picard to not name Gowron Chancellor ...

In a way, the sisters asked Picard to name Toral Chancellor instead of Gowron. This would have given the house of Duras control of the council, there would have been no civil war.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

The TNG Prime Directive sucks ass.

What should they do, go around handing out Warp Cores to cavemen?

That's pretty much the issue with the TNG Prime Directive. Keeping your hands off of an undeveloped culture and allowing them to proceed normally instead of dropping off things they're centuries away from understanding is not a bad thing.

Applying those same standards of non-interference to a culture that has warp drive and all or many of the other hallmarks of a "developed" culture is pretty silly.

 

[Timo]

That was what was so damning for the Duras, the fact of their weakness was exposed by showing they needed help from Romulans.

This has nuances, though. Klingons seemed to appreciate it a lot when the Enterprise-C helped them at Narendra III. Accepting help is no problem for them; they can always argue they didn't really need it, but they don't have to spit on it, either.

Romulan "help" could be treated the same once the Duras dynasty gained highest power. "See how they do our bidding? Duras is a great leader, turning former enemies into vassals simply by growling at them, not even needing to kill anybody much!"...

Of course, Romulans would still be treacherous cowards, just as Feds are spineless weaklings. But the act of making vassals out of them would still be acceptable and even laudable.

Timo Saloniemi