Reconsidering Nemesis...

[Dukhat]

I believe, based on some of the conversations above, that the reason Shinzon used B4 as a lure for Picard and the Enterprise was because of Tasha's relationship with Data in the Naked Now, and what she told Sela about it before she was executed.

I sincerely doubt that the events in "The Naked Now" happened in the alternate war timeline.

And anyway, it's clear that Shinzon used B-4 as a lure because he knew Data was serving with Picard, and that Picard would go to Kolarus on Data's behalf to find another Soong-type android.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I've had mixed feelings about this film after seeing it in theaters, and my feelings have never gotten better over the years. Of all the films, it's the only one I never actually bought on home video, thus I've seen it a total of maybe three or four times. Once in theater, once when it hit Blockbuster Video, partially on TV at some point, and one last viewing in 2009 when counting down to the new film.

The only thing that would interest me is seeing a longer cut restoring a lot of the character stuff. From what I recall, Worf's "the Romulans fought with honor" didn't simply come out of no where like in the theatrical cut, in the script there was an earlier scene or two of Worf expressing his feelings when traveling to Romulus, about how they would never put themselves in front of the line to help us, ect. Beats like that might have gone a long way in helping the film.

That's all my opinion of course.

 

[BillJ]

The only thing that would interest me is seeing a longer cut restoring a lot of the character stuff. From what I recall, Worf's "the Romulans fought with honor" didn't simply come out of no where like in the theatrical cut, in the script there was an earlier scene or two of Worf expressing his feelings when traveling to Romulus, about how they would never put themselves in front of the line to help us, ect. Beats like that might have gone a long way in helping the film.

I think that's the tricky part with a property like Star Trek. How much exposition is needed? Because you're trying to serve two distinct audiences. For me, the Worf line works without any other exposition because I know the character and the universe. A person new to the franchise would be wondering what Worf was going on about.

I don't envy the people responsible for making these films.

 

[Lance]

^ It's a trick juggling act to be sure.

My understanding is that director Stuart Baird himself expressed his own reservations about having to work with characters that have so much 'history', which is why many of the character moments ended up getting totally "razor-bladed" in the editing room.

 

[eyeresist]

Also, although the earlier Worf line might have added to his arc in theory, the scene itself might have been boring or clunky.

There are Trek fans that know these characters far better than the writers do. Sure, Paramount can do what they want, but fans have rejected the movie quite a bit and that's kinda the real final decision.

Art is not a democracy.

 

[Jedman67]

I believe, based on some of the conversations above, that the reason Shinzon used B4 as a lure for Picard and the Enterprise was because of Tasha's relationship with Data in the Naked Now, and what she told Sela about it before she was executed.

We have no idea if the events from "The Naked Now" ever happened in the altered timeline.

I sincerely doubt that the events in "The Naked Now" happened in the alternate war timeline.

I was trying to be silly. Learn to not always take me seriously

 

[BillJ]

There are Trek fans that know these characters far better than the writers do. Sure, Paramount can do what they want, but fans have rejected the movie quite a bit and that's kinda the real final decision.

Art is not a democracy.

+1

I rejected when I first saw it. But as I've mellowed, I can see that they seemed to be trying to make a big movie instead of another TV episode. For all its flaws, I think there is some value in what they attempted in Star Trek: Nemesis.

 

[Dukhat]

I believe, based on some of the conversations above, that the reason Shinzon used B4 as a lure for Picard and the Enterprise was because of Tasha's relationship with Data in the Naked Now, and what she told Sela about it before she was executed.

We have no idea if the events from "The Naked Now" ever happened in the altered timeline.

I sincerely doubt that the events in "The Naked Now" happened in the alternate war timeline.

I was trying to be silly. Learn to not always take me seriously

Well, between not knowing you at all, and your post reading as if you were 100% serious (i.e. no winky-face emoticons or such), you'll forgive me if I was confused as to your motives.

 

[Jedman67]

Well, between not knowing you at all, and your post reading as if you were 100% serious (i.e. no winky-face emoticons or such), you'll forgive me if I was confused as to your motives.

I edited to add the
I"ll keep that in mind for the future.

 

[JediKnightButler]

I have such mixed feelings about Nemesis. It's not really that good of a movie overall and there are so many flaws in its execution and series continuity but there were still some great scenes in the movie, especially the final battle at the end- the Enterprise allying with the Romulans, the ramming of the Schmitar, and Data's sacrifice. Very disappointing send off for the TNG crew- and the addition of some of the deleted scenes would've improved upon it a bit- but still somewhat watchable once in awhile. Special FX were top notch.

 

[Lance]

For all my playful criticisms about Cap'n Dune Buggy, I have to admit that I do find the whole Argo sequence a well-realised and exciting action set piece within itself. I'll even admit that sometimes I do put it on and watch it in isolation from the rest of the movie...

 

[BillJ]

For all my playful criticisms about Cap'n Dune Buggy, I have to admit that I do find the whole Argo sequence a well-realised and exciting action set piece within itself. I'll even admit that sometimes I do put it on and watch it in isolation from the rest of the movie...

I don't have a problem with the dune buggy scene, either. I enjoy the way it was done.

 

[eyeresist]

For all my playful criticisms about Cap'n Dune Buggy, I have to admit that I do find the whole Argo sequence a well-realised and exciting action set piece within itself. I'll even admit that sometimes I do put it on and watch it in isolation from the rest of the movie...

You can pretend it's a beer commercial.

 

[iMike]

My feeling is I don't know that releasing the uncut version of the film theatrically would have helped. It's been discussed to death, but I think after 'Insurrection,' which while entertaining was basically a two-hour TV episode on the big screen, general audiences just lost faith in anymore Trek films. If 'Nemesis' had followed 'First Contact' I do think it would have fared a bit better with some tweaks to the story, but there was just too much Star Trek on TV (which is where it works best) for general audiences to care about a Trek film.

As for the lost pieces of the film ... yeah as a Trek fan I would have preferred to see them included. For a film that was billed as "a generation's final journey," fans were short-changed on character development. The characters of Beverly Crusher and Geordi La Forge were so barely present they add almost nothing to the plot. Overall though, and I've said this a million times, Star Trek as a concept works best on television. I'm overall lukewarm on JJ-Trek, but where it succeeds in spades is creating an enjoyable action film that will appeal to mass audiences.