Reconciling 2385?

[Damian]

I don't see that as a bad thing and I think part of the issue is that I am quite happy with maintaining multiple alternate universes with their own coherent and carefully detailed histories in my mental headspace without worrying about which is "real." I just want them to be consistent (and that's what I meant by canon)

Yeah, I am fine with that. The only thing that disappoints me is the litverse probably will not continue. I mean, I know there is a "plan" and all, but I can't imagine that will mean the continuation of TNG, DS9 & Voyager (and Enterprise for that matter).

Perhaps they might continue elements of TNG line, because it's still loosely tied to Picard in the sense that both are based originally on TNG TV series so they share some elements. Picard is more a sequel to TNG than to DS9 or Voyager for instance.

The thing is though I know people argue that Picard is not going to build off what the novels did to this point because they only are followed by a small percentage of fans. I get that. While I would have loved if Picard simply picked up where "Collateral Damage" left off basically, I realize that's totally unreasonable.

But is there enough of a novel fanbase to see the litverse continue as an alternate universe, enough to make it worth S&S's while to continue it? That'd be an interesting question. Are there enough of us that want to see it continue and are fine with treating the two as alternate universes? Honestly I don't know the answer to that.

I suppose maybe we'll see. Whatever this plan is, I'm guessing it involves continuing at least some segment of the existing litverse (I'd put money on the Data/Lal storyline but that's just a guess). We'll get to see if that sells enough to filling out the schedule with an occasional litverse story.

Logically one would think a book based on a currently run series would make more money for them. But who knows, maybe that's a false assumption. Maybe books are such a niche market that it really doesn't matter as long as "Star Trek" shows up at the top of the book.

 

[Damian]

Oh, in case I haven't brought it up I'd still love a DS9 finale . You know, since DS9 basically started the relaunch train to begin with and all.

 

[Enterprise1701]

This is where I feel compelled, once again, to point out that the Marvel Cinematic Universe isn't canon. Neither are the Arrowverse TV shows. Yet people still see those movies and watch those shows in great numbers.

I don't think that's really a good analogy for something like Trek novels/comics, because things like the MCU and the Arrowverse are not telling stories that pretend to take place within the comics continuity. Rather, they're adaptations inspired by the comics continuity but creating distinct, new universes of their own. And those universes can be said to have their own canons, especially if they have their own tie-in stories that may or may not be in continuity with the main series.

I agree. 616 and the MCU have always run in parallel. Same with DC's main comics versus the Arrowverse and the DCEU. But excepting the fragment of The Old Republic, Disney discontinued Legends when they revamped Star Wars. As has CBS to the post-Nemesis pre-Picard novels.

 

[Charles Phipps]

But is there enough of a novel fanbase to see the litverse continue as an alternate universe, enough to make it worth S&S's while to continue it? That'd be an interesting question. Are there enough of us that want to see it continue and are fine with treating the two as alternate universes? Honestly I don't know the answer to that.

Bob Salvatore sold 30 million Drizzt novels over the course of his career, which is more than the entirety of the Dungeons and Dragons tabletop games ever sold. The only rivals in genre would be both the Star Wars and Star Trek novels that have sold more. So yes, there's a huge audience for them. https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2020/06/leaving-money-on-table-why-is-there-no.html

But you'd need a name for the universe so people would know like "Legends" or "The Relaunch." Then again, I like that the New World of Darkness is still being published as "Chronicles of Darkness"

But I do think most of the major plotlines are resolved. If they were going to go out, it isn't a bad time to do so. Everyone's gotten more or less a happy ending. Even if sadly DS9 probably won't get a grand finale.

 

[Christopher]

One thing I've learned over the years, going back to when I used to frequent trekmovie.com even, is that fans don't have to worry about canon. The only ones for whom that is a concern is tie in writers because they generally have to stay consistent with it. And that's more a continuity issue anyway, but obviously someone involved with an official tie-in product have to be familiar with the canon so they know what they are doing.

It should never be about "worry." It's not a matter of obligation or concern. It's just a useful description, a way of classifying things' relationship to each other. They're all just stories. They're all equally unreal. How they do or don't connect to each other is therefore merely a matter of keeping track, not picking winners and losers.

I just want them to be consistent (and that's what I meant by canon).

No sizeable canon is truly consistent. It just pretends to be. The larger it gets, the longer it lasts, the more impossible it becomes to keep everything consistent.

I agree. 616 and the MCU have always run in parallel. Same with DC's main comics versus the Arrowverse and the DCEU. But excepting the fragment of The Old Republic, Disney discontinued Legends when they revamped Star Wars. As has CBS to the post-Nemesis pre-Picard novels.

Again, those are apples and oranges. Tie-in novels based on Star Trek or Star Wars are telling stories meant to fit into the existing continuity as it's known at the time, only being contradicted by it retroactively when it goes in a different direction. Screen adaptations of comics are entirely distinct, alternative continuities, not pretending or attempting to be consistent with the comics. Tie-ins start out consistent with the source and occasionally get left behind by it; adaptations start out distinct from the source and are never consistent with it, since they're putting its pieces together in a new and separate way. The closest thing in Star Trek to that kind of adaptation/reinvention is the Kelvin Timeline, although it maintains the pretense of being an alternate timeline within the same overall continuity.

 

[Damian]

But you'd need a name for the universe so people would know like "Legends" or "The Relaunch." Then again, I like that the New World of Darkness is still being published as "Chronicles of Darkness"

I'm not sure they would need new names. I'd probably just stick with the names the novels are based off of, The Next Generation, Deeps Space Nine, Voyager, etc. Since the Picard show has a different name any novels based on or tied to that show's timeline would simply be Picard novels.

For TNG and DS9 I'd simply use the book logos they've used for years (though "Collateral Damage" did potentially confuse things a bit by reverting to the TV series logo--causing some....wait for it....collateral damage ).

But I do think most of the major plotlines are resolved. If they were going to go out, it isn't a bad time to do so. Everyone's gotten more or less a happy ending. Even if sadly DS9 probably won't get a grand finale

"Collateral Damage" did tie up some major loose ends from TNG line--though there's always room for more. I imagine "To Lose the Earth" will tie up major loose ends left for Voyager. But again, I'm sure they're always possibilities open.

DS9, that's the most disappointing. There are a number of story threads that could be tied up. I have an irrational hope that David R George III's name hasn't popped up recently because he's working on an epic finale for DS9. I know...highly unlikely. But it's all I got. Plus I was really hoping to see more DS9-Gamma books. I liked the first (and I guess last) Robinson book focusing on Sisko. It reminded me of the Mission: Gamma books and I was hoping to see more.

 

[Damian]

It should never be about "worry." It's not a matter of obligation or concern. It's just a useful description, a way of classifying things' relationship to each other. They're all just stories. They're all equally unreal. How they do or don't connect to each other is therefore merely a matter of keeping track, not picking winners and losers.

Well, I don't mean worry in the sense that you worry about a sick family member, or worry about paying bills.

More like just be cognizant of. Fans only have to be cognizant of what they want. Hell, some friends only follow some of the canon. A friend of mine only likes the original series, the first 6 movies and Enterprise (I always thought that an interesting combination--but I guess he likes 'early' Trek). He never really got into TNG or the other shows.

But you guys, since you're writing tie ins, just have to be cognizant of the canon, is probably a better way to put it.

More so then fans do. And I'd even say more so then the show runners, since in their case it's up to them how much they want to concern themselves with prior canon. From what I understand tie-in authors don't have that luxury, at least not without some sort of approval from the PTBs I guess.

 

[Christopher]

And I'd even say more so then the show runners, since in their case it's up to them how much they want to concern themselves with prior canon. From what I understand tie-in authors don't have that luxury, at least not without some sort of approval from the PTBs I guess.

Sure. As I've said before, the owner of an apartment building is free to remodel the apartments, but the tenants have to leave them essentially unchanged. By the same token, the owners of a canon are free to reinvent and rewrite it, because it's still only a story. But it's their story, so it's their prerogative to remodel it. We tie-in writers are just borrowing pieces of it. It's not ours to remake.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Now THAT is a REALLY GOOD analogy.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Gibson and I both "like" the same thing.

"Be very afraid"-HELL. Be frigging TERRIFIED!

I don't get your beef with me, but for some reason I seem to be your Moby-Dick. I've been the villain in other people's lives before to my equal mystification, and that's fine. It happens. I just find it weird that some stranger on the internet has, apparently for years, seen me as the root of all evil.

 

[BillJ]

I don't see a need to reconcile live action and the novel lines, to be honest. They are two different versions of events post-Nemesis.

Spoiler: Book vs. TV...

To be honest, I thought Picard marrying and having a kid was the worst thing ever done with the character, then I saw the Picard TV series.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't see a need to reconcile live action and the novel lines, to be honest. They are two different versions of events post-Nemesis.

Spoiler: Book vs. TV...

To be honest, I thought Picard marrying and having a kid was the worst thing ever done with the character, then I saw the Picard TV series.

Let's just say we agree to disagree about Picard. Love that show.

I have mixed feelings about the hook-ups in Star Trek's relaunch. I love some of them like Sarina and Julian (infinitely more interesting than Ezri/Julian could ever be) and Worf/Choudhury but I never quite warmed to some of them.

For example, it feels incredibly weird to have Geordi hook up with Leah Brahms when their episode was built around the fact that he had no idea who she was as well as his creepy attempt to make her his fantasy girlfriend.

I've always been a fan of the Picard and Doctor Crusher relationship but I also note that it benefited from the fact that they were forever together always apart too. The fact that they chose to all but eliminate the hints of it from later seasons always bugged me. Really, if they were going to fire that phaser, it would have been in Generations when Picard went to his own personal heaven.

I suppose I feel going with "obvious" love interests doesn't work as well as with OCs.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Needs of the Many which introduced me to the Litverse.

TNOTM is actually part of STO continuity, which is incompatible with the litverse.

 

[Charles Phipps]

TNOTM is actually part of STO continuity, which is incompatible with the litverse.

Yes, I was using it to point out the differences between continuities and specifically the short story where the Litverse is referenced as an alternate continuity existing parallel.

 

[David cgc]

I have mixed feelings about the hook-ups in Star Trek's relaunch. I love some of them like Sarina and Julian (infinitely more interesting than Ezri/Julian could ever be) and Worf/Choudhury but I never quite warmed to some of them.

I feel like Sarina and Julian was hobbled for me with one (or more? It's been a while) of the authors didn't get the memo that she was definitively not playing him for a fool and was totally on his side against 31, so I was constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. That, and I have a bit of an inherent distaste for civilian characters from the shows joining Starfleet in the novels (or Kelvin movies, cough, cough), as if it's the only job that exists.

For example, it feels incredibly weird to have Geordi hook up with Leah Brahms when their episode was built around the fact that he had no idea who she was as well as his creepy attempt to make her his fantasy girlfriend.

Eventually, I just had to laugh that some of the authors felt Geordi and Brahms were destined to end up together because of "All Good Things," and others thought that was messed up and had him dating... that doctor. You know the one. The one Geordi was dating. Anyway, they eventually settled on Geordi (and his girlfriends) being polyamorous, so, go Geordi. Big turnaround from the show.

I had a similar process with Chen going out with Vorick, but, again, I lucked out and the TNG line settled down with an author who saw things my way and had her get back together with Koyna.

 

[thribs]

Just ignore Picard and continue onward. People are smart enough to differentiate them.
Say that the events of Picard were a nightmare he had.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Random aside but T'Ryssa is one of my top 3 favorite Star Trek characters period. Whoeever created Genki Vulcan was genius. I feel bad for Vorick, though. I liked that he could appreciate her despite the fact they had different views of logic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Sure. As I've said before, the owner of an apartment building is free to remodel the apartments, but the tenants have to leave them essentially unchanged. By the same token, the owners of a canon are free to reinvent and rewrite it, because it's still only a story. But it's their story, so it's their prerogative to remodel it. We tie-in writers are just borrowing pieces of it. It's not ours to remake.

Destiny burned half the appartment down though.

 

[Christopher]

Just ignore Picard and continue onward. People are smart enough to differentiate them.
Say that the events of Picard were a nightmare he had.

We don't have that right. We are employed on behalf of CBS to tell stories based on their property. If someone lets you borrow their car, it would be obnoxious as hell to take it to a body shop and get it massively remodeled without their permission.

Look, if you want science fiction that's completely free to tell stories however it wants, then look beyond media tie-ins. There's a whole vast realm of original SF out there, not based on any existing franchise but telling completely new stories that can go wherever the authors imagine. Check out Dave Mack's Dark Arts trilogy, or Keith DeCandido's Dragon Precinct series, or my upcoming duology Arachne's Crime/Arachne's Exile.

But if you read media tie-ins, go in with the understanding that their purpose is to supplement and support the screen franchise, not invalidate or ignore it. We are paid contractors for the people who own Star Trek. That gives us an obligation to the people we're working for.

Destiny burned half the appartment down though.

But not in a way that contradicted any screen canon that existed at the time. That's the job. The only reason Pocket was free to do Destiny was because there was no expectation at the time that the 24th-century narrative would continue onscreen. But that doesn't entitle the tie-ins to ignore the new 24th-century narrative that now does exist, any more than the 1990s tie-in novels were entitled to ignore TNG Romulans and keep writing about Rihannsu instead.

 

[thribs]

Have CBS outright said it cannot continue?
Considering they’re not canon I don’t get the fuss. This isn’t like Disney with their canon Star Wars books. At least they have a legitimate reason