"Recapturing the 'Magic' of 'STAR WARS'"

[fireproof78]

How? The Senate wanted to raise taxes on trade routes and the Trade Federation objected, so they chose to blockade a planet.

It's really not that complicated. The complications come from Palpatine's machinations behind the scenes.

I didn't say complicated. I said confusing as in "makes no sense." But, please reiterate what I already know as if it will now make sense to me

Maybe that's the case, but if so, they telegraphed it terribly. Most of the attention is on Kylo (as if he were a lone wolf and the only thing that mattered about the First Order) and none of the relationship is developed. And any tension between Snoke is quickly dissipated and taken care of (Palpatine wasn't taken out until the last movie). It's as if they forgot they had three movies in order to play things out and simmer out the tension to a grand plan. Everything is played out in simplified strokes. Characters are simply wasted. Phasma is a tragic example. In a better planned series of movies, she could have had more to do and that goes back into the kind of hierarchy I'm talking about.

Agree to disagree. I followed Snoke, Hux, Phasma and Kylo just fine, enjoyed their dynamic and the overall purpose of the First Order.

The tension comes from the warring of two powers, and the personal struggle within, not how many characters last until the last film.

 

[Owain Taggart]

and the personal struggle within

Even then, it's not like there was terribly much personal struggle within the First Order. Just a lot of "over and done with it" scenarios. Not a lot of thematic growth spread over several movies. That's the major difference to me between the OT and this new trilogy. Rogue One was the only one of the movies that managed to captured the magic of the OT. It had done more in a single movie than those two movies that are supposedly part of a trilogy.

 

[fireproof78]

Even then, it's not like there was terribly much personal struggle within the First Order. Just a lot of "over and done with it" scenarios. Not a lot of thematic growth spread over several movies. That's the major difference to me between the OT and this new trilogy. Rogue One was the only one of the movies that managed to captured the magic of the OT. It had done more in a single movie than those two movies that are supposedly part of a trilogy.

I swear I watch different movies. Again, agree to disagree

And, on topic, I don't want the ST to recapture the magic. I want it to expand upon the magic of the OT and that I think it is doing. Mileage will vary in terms of success.

 

[Jayson1]

Why? So many story elements, for practically everything, are informed by our politics and morals. Without those, you get stuff as deep as: See Dick Run.

To me that stuff just feels more like "Star Trek" than "Star Wars." To me "Star Wars" is basically fantasy based escapism. Perhaps taking things from human mythology makes sense but not so much form modern day society. Granted "Trek" can also do the escapism stuff as well but that's why "Trek" has always been better. It's suited for everything form social commentary to escapism to exploring our past through metaphor. To me I think "Force Awakens" has been the best Disney movie because it feels modern in both CGI and how it embraces diversity but at the same time the story is basically just a action yarn. I could have used a better explanation as to why the New Republic fell but I didn't really care to much about it either way because it didn't impact the story. I should note I haven't seen "Solo" yet so not sure what to think.Premise wise it actually sounds fun to me. I don't hate the idea of a Solo prequel like some seem to do. I mean you have Solo and Lando and Chewie and the MIllenium Falcon but in a new story. Of course it would be better if done in reboot form so your not beholded to canon. I guess I will find out when I watch it.

Jason

 

[BillJ]

...how it embraces diversity...

That is as political as anything going on in the US now. Where have you been?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'd have to be a teenager again for Star Wars to truly seem magical again. That said I've enjoyed Episodes VII and VIII, but its not the same feeling I had for Episode IV in 1977.

 

[Jayson1]

That is as political as anything going on in the US now. Where have you been?

I know it's political to some but it's not to me. To me something only feels political if it's something that feels preachy or condescending. Basically bad writing when you get down to it. I don't care what a character's point-of-view is. Just make them feel like real people whether they are liberal,conservative or whatever. Also make them all have flaws and even unforgivable flaws if they were people in the real world, if we are talking about more adult level stuff.

Jason

 

[BillJ]

I'd have to be a teenager again for Star Wars to truly seem magical again. That said I've enjoyed Episodes VII and VIII, but its not the same feeling I had for Episode IV in 1977.

I feel the same way about Star Trek. Nothing will ever replicate the magic of watching TOS when I was very young. I think the Abrams films probably came the closest.

 

[Jayson1]

For me it was TNG because that is basically what made me a Trek fan and even a Sci-FI fan though I did like stuff earlier like "Quantum Leap" War of the Worlds" and etc. I never really thought of myself as a Sci-FI fan though. In fact I don't think I considered myself part of any label until finding Trek. When I played basketball and football in high school I didn't think of myself as a jock or anything.

Jason

 

[fireproof78]

I don't want things to try to recapture that "magic" because that's not possible and is completely unreasonable. It's like demanding a nostalgia band just play old stuff with nothing new. I don't want that in my entertainment. I feel that the ST, much like the PT and ESB before them, have taken the overall themes of Star Wars and expanded them in a far more realistic and grounded way. It is absolutely modern myth making because that's what mythology does. It takes contemporary problems and frames them in a way that is both accessible, relatable and fantastical and can't immediately be taken as allegory. In so doing, it becomes more timeless.

 

[Refuge]

I tend to agree. There IS magic and then there is formula. There is no way what is being created today can ever replicate the fresh ground, the heart and the context that made the connections the original journeys did with its audience. Though to be fair an audience coming at Star Wars at a later point in time might have a different feel for it. I enjoyed The Force Awakens but I could see the equation. The cast, the plotting, the production values... there is no magic when it is that controlled. It's like someone did some market research and decided this is what the audience wants and here it is folks! So you walk away satisfied but missing something.

As for Last Jedi - that is where they decided to put a stake in the heart of the magic.

 

[fireproof78]

Empire Strikes Back - that is where they decided to put a stake in the heart of the magic.

Fixed it for you.

 

[DigificWriter]

I didn't say complicated. I said confusing as in "makes no sense."

How, exactly, does any of that not make sense?

Palpatine played on the Trade Federation's greed and the Senate's ineffectualness to create a "perfect storm" situation that he could personally profit from, and even altered his machinations "on the fly" when Amidala proved more resourceful tjan he was anticipating due to her young age and Chancellor Valorum got the Jedi Council involved in things.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I feel the same way about Star Trek. Nothing will ever replicate the magic of watching TOS when I was very young. I think the Abrams films probably came the closest.

With Star Trek, I had watched it off and on as a kid in the late Sixties. But since I was a kid I wasn't glued to the set. I was too busy doing kid stuff. TV, even the shows I liked, wasn't a priority More of a oh that's on. I think I'll watch it. If I missed an episode, no big deal. It was the reruns in the Seventies that got me hooked. Plus my best friend was into it. And he had a lot of cool stuff like the technical manual. So soon I was reading TMoST and the Blish adaptations. I probably read some of the Blish stuff before I saw the episode!

 

[DigificWriter]

It's like someone did some market research and decided this is what the audience wants and here it is folks!

That isn't even remotely close to being what happened. What actually happened is that Lucasfilm put the forst Star Wars film in 12 years in the hands of two people who view Star Wars a very specific way and wanted to personally recreate for themselves the experience they had walking out of a theater in 1977, notwithstanding the fact that not every person could have experienced exactly what they did and ignoring the realities of coherent filmmaking and storytelling.

 

[Jayson1]

I think the era in which a film is made also matters. What appealed to kid's in the late 70's and early 80's is different than what kids like today. Back then kids I feel were more active and also had more of a imagination and not such a short attention span because they had to since you didn't have fancy CGI to impress you with.Which in turn the characters often suffer because the CGI becomes to important. Disney films aren't as bad at this as the prequels were the CGI felt like a bad joke it was so overused but it's still a issue. Even the Casino mission I think was really boring feels like a excuse to do a more elaborate Mos Eisley setting mixed together with cartoonish animals they felt the kids would like. Nevermind the fact that animals are never as interesting as monsters in these kinds of films. Now if a bunch of Racnor's going crazy and the hero's lives also at risk that might have been exciting but just some stampede which isn't really effective because the hero's are just watching the events instead of fighting something.

Jason

 

[DigificWriter]

I think the era in which a film is made also matters. What appealed to kid's in the late 70's and early 80's is different than what kids like today. Back then kids I feel were more active and also had more of a imagination and not such a short attention span because they had to since you didn't have fancy CGI to impress you with.Which in turn the characters often suffer because the CGI becomes to important. Disney films aren't as bad at this as the prequels were the CGI felt like a bad joke it was so overused but it's still a issue. Even the Casino mission I think was really boring feels like a excuse to do a more elaborate Mos Eisley setting mixed together with cartoonish animals they felt the kids would like. Nevermind the fact that animals are never as interesting as monsters in these kinds of films. Now if a bunch of Racnor's going crazy and the hero's lives also at risk that might have been exciting but just some stampede which isn't really effective because the hero's are just watching the events instead of fighting something.

Jason

You really missed the point of the Canto Bight sequence.

 

[fireproof78]

How, exactly, does any of that not make sense?

Palpatine played on the Trade Federation's greed and the Senate's ineffectualness to create a "perfect storm" situation that he could personally profit from, and even altered his machinations "on the fly" when Amidala proved more resourceful tjan he was anticipating due to her young age and Chancellor Valorum got the Jedi Council involved in things.

It doesn't make any sense as to why the Trade Federation has a representative in the Senate in the first place? It doesn't make sense as to what a blockade would do to the Republic as a whole and why the Senate must respond in in that instance. Finally, it doesn't make sense why Valorum sent the Jedi in secret when the Jedi are the guardians of peace. Seems to be right up their alley.

From a story point of view, it kind of makes sense-kind of. From a world building point of view it portrays the politics as muddled and confused with no clear idea of what will actually happen other than what the story dictates.

 

[DigificWriter]

It doesn't make any sense as to why the Trade Federation has a representative in the Senate in the first place?

It's the ultimate extreme of what currently happens in the United States Congress with lobbyists petitioning Representatives and Senators to champion their causes and vote in their favor and an example of how corrupt and ineffectual the Republic Senate has become.

It doesn't make sense as to what a blockade would do to the Republic as a whole and why the Senate must respond in in that instance.

The Trade Federation blockades Naboo in order to force the Senate into voting not to implement the taxation that was up for debate.

Finally, it doesn't make sense why Valorum sent the Jedi in secret when the Jedi are the guardians of peace. Seems to be right up their alley.

Valorum sends the Jedi in secret because he does not want to provoke the Trade Federation into escalating things.

 

[fireproof78]

It's the ultimate extreme of what currently happens in the United States Congress with lobbyists petitioning Representatives and Senators to champion their causes and vote in their favor and an example of how corrupt and ineffectual the Republic Senate has become.



The Trade Federation blockades Naboo in order to force the Senate into voting not to implement the taxation that was up for debate.



Valorum sends the Jedi in secret because he does not want to provoke the Trade Federation into escalating things.

Even though the Trade Federation fears the Jedi? It's ridiculous that the Jedi's one job is the one that they negotiate and the Senate would shy away from using the tools at their disposal.

Secondly, as a story device it fails utterly because why would we want the Republic to continue as a government system? If the Jedi succeed at Naboo and negotiate without being attacked then things return to status quo, nothing gained or lost.

Finally, the fact that it is this many years after the film's released, and reading every book connected to the Phantom Menace and I still don't get it is a problem.