"Recapturing the 'Magic' of 'STAR WARS'"

[Jayson1]

You really missed the point of the Canto Bight sequence.

I understood. It was a chance to show that their is a 1% in the "Star Wars." universe. Put it in fancy Casino and you see how some of the true scum and villiany exist in these places and not just in some dive bar full of working class shady criminal types. It's not a bad idea and "Star Trek" and million other things have explored the idea before but I just don't care that much about the political universe or the Rose TIco character to really be interested in her backstory. Plus it's tied to the even worst slow space chase. This movie has a good beginning and good ending and okay stuff with Luke and Rey but the whole middle part of this movie when your not with Luke and Rey is just a snore fest because they were trying to be socially relevant instead of just put in some exciting action scenes. Basically the middle part of the middle exist to take on the 1% and deconstruct the Han Solo type of action hero. Which would be fine if the action adventure stuff made it worthwhile. Also not sure why they in essence swap Leia with Holdo who was a very poor replacement despite the fact I usually like Laura Dern. It makes no sense. You got Leia in the movie and you want her to take a nap for a good chunk of it.

Jason

 

[LJones41]

I'm still flabbergasted at how the media, Disney, Rian Johnson and several moviegoers are pushing the idea that "The Last Jedi" was something new. I would be inclined to reply that the "something new" I got from "The Last Jedi" was a bad SW movie, but I had already received that from "The Force Awakens". I love the idea of something new and subversive in STAR WARS. I love the idea of something different. What I don't love is bad writing and offensive characterizations, which seemed to be all I got from "The Last Jedi". From "The Force Awakens", I got a lot of nostalgia wrapped up in plot holes.

 

[fireproof78]

Luke's scene at the end versus Kylo Ren was wonderful and new.

I'm still flabbergasted by the offense that is being taken by Luke's portrayal. I left TFA feeling a bit nostalgic and excited. I left TLJ truly amazed and wondering what was coming next. If that isn't new enough to hook people in then I don't know what to say.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I tend to agree. There IS magic and then there is formula.

The way I see it, they both go hand in hand. In some ways, magic will follow the formula. Get the formula just right and you'll have that magic, but miss enough of those bits of the formula and the thing loses magic and something can feel off about it. Which is why, even though they've tried to recreate the movies beat by beat, the formula is different, even if only slightly. But to the fair, I think what's also happened is a change in attitude in filmmaking. The philosophy both behind and in front of the camera can affect a production overall.

 

[Jayson1]

I'm still flabbergasted at how the media, Disney, Rian Johnson and several moviegoers are pushing the idea that "The Last Jedi" was something new. I would be inclined to reply that the "something new" I got from "The Last Jedi" was a bad SW movie, but I had already received that from "The Force Awakens". I love the idea of something new and subversive in STAR WARS. I love the idea of something different. What I don't love is bad writing and offensive characterizations, which seemed to be all I got from "The Last Jedi". From "The Force Awakens", I got a lot of nostalgia wrapped up in plot holes.

Well it is kind of new by the standards of "Star Wars." It was maybe the first attempt to try and elevate the material. Which I think might have been better in a kind of one-off movie instead of part of the big trilogy. A chance to do their "Logan" or what this future Tarantino Trek movie will look like. Having a single movie just around this dark Luke Skywalker could have been fun as maybe some alternate worlds story. Actually I wonder if not building these movies around the old characters was not a mistake. Do movies or a single movie that are all about the old characters and then spring off into a new trilogy afterwords with the Rey's and Finn's etc. I think on some level if people see their old favorites they want the movies to still mostly be about them. The new "Terminator" movie is going to run into the same problem when people find our Arnold and Linda Hamiltion only have bit parts. Their is no reason not to make movies about older characters other than ageism.

Jason

 

[JD]

Nevermind the fact that animals are never as interesting as monsters in these kinds of films. Now if a bunch of Racnor's going crazy and the hero's lives also at risk that might have been exciting but just some stampede which isn't really effective because the hero's are just watching the events instead of fighting something.

Jason

Completely disagree with you here, watching our heroes fight monster can be fun on a visceral level, but I much prefer animals like the fathiers that you can care about and connect with on an emotional level.

 

[fireproof78]

The way I see it, they both go hand in hand. In some ways, magic will follow the formula. Get the formula just right and you'll have that magic, but miss enough of those bits of the formula and the thing loses magic and something can feel off about it. Which is why, even though they've tried to recreate the movies beat by beat, the formula is different, even if only slightly. But to the fair, I think what's also happened is a change in attitude in filmmaking. The philosophy both behind and in front of the camera can affect a production overall.

It is impossible to recapture any film's feel. There is simply too many variables, often times not even the original crew cannot recapture. And, it does discredit to current works to demand they match up.

 

[Owain Taggart]

It is impossible to recapture any film's feel.

That's true, for the most part. But the SW movies have always had a certain aesthetic feel to them. Even as bad as the prequels are, Lucas was trying to visually tie the movies into the OT while still giving us something new (some 20 odd years later), and that was sometimes down to simple little details like scene changes giving it a certain token style that ties it all together visually. I felt that this time around, there was a lot less of that. For me, when I see Star Wars, I expect all the little trappings that go along with them that form a whole of the franchise.

Btw, I guess I'm one of the few who ended up being really impressed with what they did with Luke. I feel he was one of the best things going for TLJ and I think expecting him to not have changed is a little unreasonable. We have to account for the passage of time and obviously he'd been through a lot since we last saw him. Time does change people. Could it maybe have been done better? Perhaps, but I don't really see any problem with what they've done with the character, and I think he was given a much better sendoff than Han. And who's to say he couldn't continue to appear to give Rey some counsel as a Force Ghost?

 

[Jayson1]

Completely disagree with you here, watching our heroes fight monster can be fun on a visceral level, but I much prefer animals like the fathiers that you can care about and connect with on an emotional level.

I did like the porgs and that thing that Luke was getting milk out of, but when you need action and I felt the middle section needed more action I would go more with monsters. Especially when the Disney films have been lacking in monsters compared to the old movies. They had the Rancor and the Snow monster and the thing that tried to eat the Falcon and the sewage monster and the swamp monster that tries to eat R2. It just occurred to me just how many scary monsters the old films had and how few the new ones do have. Compare that also to how disposable droids are it really does seem when I think about the old movies they have a sort of old western feeling to them like it's all in some future Wild West or primitive times only with tech. I miss that bleakness in the old movies. Maybe in part because they use a huge amount of CGI, everything feels more safe and less gritty feeling even when they try to make something more gritty. I mean just compare the beautiful island landscape Luke and Rey interact on compared to the murky old swamp of Dagabu with Luke and Yoda.

Jason

 

[fireproof78]

That's true, for the most part. But the SW movies have always had a certain aesthetic feel to them. Even as bad as the prequels are, Lucas was trying to visually tie the movies into the OT while still giving us something new (some 20 odd years later), and that was sometimes down to simple little details like scene changes giving it a certain token style that ties it all together visually. I felt that this time around, there was a lot less of that. For me, when I see Star Wars, I expect all the little trappings that go along with them that form a whole of the franchise.

I feel like the feel is still there in the ST, so I'm not sure I'm missing what other people are

Also, I struggle with feeling like TPM fitting in to the larger aesthetic.

Btw, I guess I'm one of the few who ended up being really impressed with what they did with Luke. I feel he was one of the best things going for TLJ and I think expecting him to not have changed is a little unreasonable. We have to account for the passage of time and obviously he'd been through a lot since we last saw him. Time does change people. Could it maybe have been done better? Perhaps, but I don't really see any problem with what they've done with the character, and I think he was given a much better sendoff than Han. And who's to say he couldn't continue to appear to give Rey some counsel as a Force Ghost?

I agree about Luke. Again, could it have been done better? Yeah, probably, in some way. But my fannish ideas are not necessarily the best. Same with TFA. I can image ways of it being better for me but that doesn't make me right.

And, I fully expect Luke to come back as a ghost.

 

[Jayson1]

I wonder if we will get a ghost Luke that does more than stand around offering wisdom to Rey or whoever. What he did at the end was more active than anything any other force ghost has ever done.

Jason

 

[JD]

He wasn't a Force Ghost at the end, he sent an image of himself from Ach-To to Crait, and the effort killed.

And who's to say he couldn't continue to appear to give Rey some counsel as a Force Ghost?

It seems very very likely to me that he will, Mark Hamill is in the cast list for Ep.IX. I guess he could just be in some flashbacks, but that seems unlikely.

 

[Owain Taggart]

What he did at the end was more active than anything any other force ghost has ever done.

That's true. And he essentially drained his lifeforce as a result.

 

[Smellmet]

Luke's scene at the end versus Kylo Ren was wonderful and new.

I'm still flabbergasted by the offense that is being taken by Luke's portrayal. I left TFA feeling a bit nostalgic and excited. I left TLJ truly amazed and wondering what was coming next. If that isn't new enough to hook people in then I don't know what to say.

Apart from the opening battle, this was the only half decent scene in TLJ for me.

 

[LJones41]

Luke's scene at the end versus Kylo Ren was wonderful and new.

True. That was different. I guess I wasn't that impressed. I'm still not.

 

[fireproof78]

True. That was different. I guess I wasn't that impressed. I'm still not.

Mileage will vary

 

[Jayson1]

Apart from the opening battle, this was the only half decent scene in TLJ for me.

That's how I feel. Great at the start and at the end but not much in the middle.

Jason

 

[Roundabout]

I'm still flabbergasted at how the media, Disney, Rian Johnson and several moviegoers are pushing the idea that "The Last Jedi" was something new. I would be inclined to reply that the "something new" I got from "The Last Jedi" was a bad SW movie, but I had already received that from "The Force Awakens". I love the idea of something new and subversive in STAR WARS. I love the idea of something different. What I don't love is bad writing and offensive characterizations, which seemed to be all I got from "The Last Jedi". From "The Force Awakens", I got a lot of nostalgia wrapped up in plot holes.

It seems to me that maybe the people who created TFA and TLJ showed too much deference to the Star Wars mystique. Star Wars has a huge following and it is iconic in popular culture. I don't know their motivations, but perhaps they rather err on the side of playing it safe instead of being subversive. Playing it safe can be a double edge sword though.

I enjoyed TFA even though it was a recycling of SW.

I am not exactly sure what the theme(s) of the sequel trilogy is. The prequel was, more or less, about Anakin's journey to the dark side, the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire. The OT was the story of the rebellion and the coming of age of Anakin's child Luke to be the new Jedi. Maybe I am not seeing it. What is the point that the writers are trying to get across with the sequels.

I don't know how they can recapture the magic, but maybe they should start with a clearer sense of purpose.

 

[Butters]

It is impossible to recapture any film's feel. There is simply too many variables, often times not even the original crew cannot recapture. And, it does discredit to current works to demand they match up.

I think the problem isn’t so much capturing the feel that’s the problem, it’s trying to relive the moment. If the magic was there, it was there then. You can watch a movie again that zinged and remember the zing, but you can’t be eight years old again and watch it for the first time.

Children new to Star Wars watching the last Jedi will feel that magic that we might think is missing, because to them it is magic, it’s new. It’s everything that first movie was, but the first movie, first time round, didn’t have a history.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I am not exactly sure what the theme(s) of the sequel trilogy is. The prequel was, more or less, about Anakin's journey to the dark side, the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire. The OT was the story of the rebellion and the coming of age of Anakin's child Luke to be the new Jedi. Maybe I am not seeing it. What is the point that the writers are trying to get across with the sequels.

Yeah, that's a good point. At this point with two movies in, I still don't have a clear idea of where they're going with this, whereas with the OT it was very clear they were building up to something. But here it all feels very random. It's this lack of cohesion I've mentioned before. It sounds like they could be waiting until the last movie to reveal everything, but in that case, that's very different to how it was done in the previous movies, and it affects the storytelling style.