Reasons not to make a Pike show
- Thread starter Mudd
- Start date
Well, maybe it will work if we merge the Pike and section 31 show into a single continuous story?
Pike, the symbol of righteous, beacon of light, and upright officer must face Phillipa Georgiou who represent darkness, cruelness and evil. Their missions will be the same. To do good thing for Starfleet. But with different approach, or even interest. And because Section 31 no longer has any warship, they must entangle themselves with other bureau ships. In here, Georgiou will entangle herself with the Enterprise. As an agent of Section 31; because of her own agenda.
The story will be about the evil Queen Phillipa Georgiou hidden agenda. She got something from the future, and return to do something for her own bidding. To make her ambition come true, the queen believe that to change the history is very pivotal. That mean, she must change the history so that what we have witness in TOS, TNG, and beyond won't be happen. That's why she entangle herself with the Enterprise. Because she know that the ship is very pivotal to the history of the universe.
While Pike, as the do gooder will become her ultimate hindrance. In here, Pike can become interesting, because he doesn't need to be the sole main hero. He can stay like what he is in Discovery. So we don't have to convert him into Pike the hero. He is fine as another Starfleet captain as he is. But his character can become the anti-thesis to Georgiou plan; because of his importance in the history; and of course, his own character.
To change the history, Georgiou doesn't need to become the enemy of mankind. We don't need to see her like the stupid Lorca. She can even become a hero. The Queen just need to twist the history little by little. Maybe by trying to kill some important characters? Like Kirk who have influence to the history? Or some Alien that will have a pivotal role in the future. Or maybe not kill anyone, but to save someone who can change the history forever. Maybe Georgiou can simply jeopardized Enterprise mission, so a historical moment will be void. There are many possibility here.
Just imagine if she able to kill Kirk, and the entire TOS won't be happen ever. The future of the canon will be blank suddenly. Of course, Georgiou should not become the next Lorca. So she can't has an unredeemable act that make her become the enemy and must die because of it. Because the story is all about the dynamic relation between Pike and Georgiou.
Just imagine, if Georgiou decide to save Pike in order to change the history, but Pike try to deny her plan. An act of self sacrifice for the sake of history.
Pike, the symbol of righteous, beacon of light, and upright officer must face Phillipa Georgiou who represent darkness, cruelness and evil. Their missions will be the same. To do good thing for Starfleet. But with different approach, or even interest. And because Section 31 no longer has any warship, they must entangle themselves with other bureau ships. In here, Georgiou will entangle herself with the Enterprise. As an agent of Section 31; because of her own agenda.
The story will be about the evil Queen Phillipa Georgiou hidden agenda. She got something from the future, and return to do something for her own bidding. To make her ambition come true, the queen believe that to change the history is very pivotal. That mean, she must change the history so that what we have witness in TOS, TNG, and beyond won't be happen. That's why she entangle herself with the Enterprise. Because she know that the ship is very pivotal to the history of the universe.
While Pike, as the do gooder will become her ultimate hindrance. In here, Pike can become interesting, because he doesn't need to be the sole main hero. He can stay like what he is in Discovery. So we don't have to convert him into Pike the hero. He is fine as another Starfleet captain as he is. But his character can become the anti-thesis to Georgiou plan; because of his importance in the history; and of course, his own character.
To change the history, Georgiou doesn't need to become the enemy of mankind. We don't need to see her like the stupid Lorca. She can even become a hero. The Queen just need to twist the history little by little. Maybe by trying to kill some important characters? Like Kirk who have influence to the history? Or some Alien that will have a pivotal role in the future. Or maybe not kill anyone, but to save someone who can change the history forever. Maybe Georgiou can simply jeopardized Enterprise mission, so a historical moment will be void. There are many possibility here.
Just imagine if she able to kill Kirk, and the entire TOS won't be happen ever. The future of the canon will be blank suddenly. Of course, Georgiou should not become the next Lorca. So she can't has an unredeemable act that make her become the enemy and must die because of it. Because the story is all about the dynamic relation between Pike and Georgiou.
Just imagine, if Georgiou decide to save Pike in order to change the history, but Pike try to deny her plan. An act of self sacrifice for the sake of history.
Last edited:
Not Welshie!
Well, there were no carry-over characters in season one of STD, and the producers tore their hair out over canon.
As much as I like Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck and would gladly watch a Pike spin-off if it were a thing, I even commented in the Ask Not discussion thread that I could watch an entire hour of those three sitting around shooting the shit and be enthralled, the sad truth of the matter is that a Pike series would basically be generic Star Trek. You got the adventures of a starship (the Enterprise, in this case) making weekly visits to alien world, having adventures, taking off, maybe some weeks they get sidetracked by another starship in distress, maybe an alien entity comes to them with an axe to grind. There really is nothing new for the show to bring to the table, which does seem to be what CBS is trying to do with their current crop of Trek shows. Disco tried to shift the narrative away from the Captain and senior officers, and is now going ahead to the distant future. Picard apparently is not even being a Starfleet focused show while Lower Decks is an animated comedy focused on the life and times of junior officers.
The best options for revisiting the Pike era Enterprise would be to do a TV movie or a miniseries/limited run series to tell a specific story. According to fanon, Pike commanded the Enterprise for fifteen years, with Spock serving under him for eleven of those years, and Number One presumably there for the whole time. Since we've only really seen a bare fraction of the Enterprise in that period, really just The Cage plus stuff from Disco season 2 and the Short Treks, there's plenty of room to do many such TV movies, or miniseries without conflicting with canon. Though even then, there's still going to be a struggle for coming up with story content. How do you do a TV movie specific to the Pike era Enterprise that couldn't just be done with any of the other ships or casts in any of the other eras? And if a miniseries, assuming it has as much as ten episodes, the sad truth is Star Trek tends to only view such long-term story arcs as being suitable to tell stories of war and or a galactic apocalypse, and truth be told, I think they've run the gamut on those subjects.
The best options for revisiting the Pike era Enterprise would be to do a TV movie or a miniseries/limited run series to tell a specific story. According to fanon, Pike commanded the Enterprise for fifteen years, with Spock serving under him for eleven of those years, and Number One presumably there for the whole time. Since we've only really seen a bare fraction of the Enterprise in that period, really just The Cage plus stuff from Disco season 2 and the Short Treks, there's plenty of room to do many such TV movies, or miniseries without conflicting with canon. Though even then, there's still going to be a struggle for coming up with story content. How do you do a TV movie specific to the Pike era Enterprise that couldn't just be done with any of the other ships or casts in any of the other eras? And if a miniseries, assuming it has as much as ten episodes, the sad truth is Star Trek tends to only view such long-term story arcs as being suitable to tell stories of war and or a galactic apocalypse, and truth be told, I think they've run the gamut on those subjects.
She seemed to have a thing for Pike in "Q&A", so maybe she'd be bi if they ever decided to pair her with a woman.
Before Rebecca Romijn was cast, I suggested that they make Number One a transsexual. They could still do that, actually.
How many people here fall under the category of: they don't generally like Discovery but they do like all of the last three Short Treks?
I don't think they are really tore their hair out. If they had the Klingon ships probably wouldn't have looked like they did. They also don't seem too concerned with making the actual starships look like TOS era Federation have been depicted in various forms of media prior to Star Trek Discovery.
The same goes for the uniforms that the characters wear on both the USS Discovery and USS Enterprise.
So yeah I don't buy that they'll were tearing their hair out over Canon or previous continuity.
I'm sure some of their story decisions were constrained by it, and they wanted a chance to tell a non-constrained story.
But overall, even though I don't agree with everything they did; I liked their take on the 23rd century and thought they did a good job depicting it 50 years after the original TOS first put it on the TV screen.
So yeah, I hope they do return to it with either a Pike series or a Section 31 series.
I don't know that I'd agree, given they could make the Pike show at least semi-episodic (similar to say DS9 at it's height) rather than telling a single big story each season, which would mean it would be structurally very different from Discovery.
Or at least do periodic mini arcs, released miniseries style. I think it would be a nice way to test the waters so to speak.
I have to think some time relatively soon they're going to have to decide if they are going to tear down the Enterprise set or actually utilize that sunk cost for something.
The last three were only 40-45 minutes total. So I'm not sure if it is a good comparison. Even being super short, the writing is still paper thin and not good enough to carry a series.
Yeah, but Trek has yet to come up with a single thing better than that. It's like complaining that the new Lamborghini is an expensive sports car.
Just compare the start of season 1 to the end of season 2. At the start of season 1 they were actively trying to visually reinvent Star Trek's wheel, while at the end of season 2 they're tripping over themselves at being faithful to TOS, even when it contradicted earlier content from Disco.
One of the things which is going to be clear very soon with the release of Picard is to what extent Discovery's writing issues are unique to the show (possibly due to showrunner inconsistency) versus the influence of Kurtzman and CBS management.
If Picard is good - or to put it more neutrally, if it pleases a lot of the Discovery skeptics - I think it's a good sign a Pike show can be too.
If Picard is good - or to put it more neutrally, if it pleases a lot of the Discovery skeptics - I think it's a good sign a Pike show can be too.
Yeah, it's about the showrunners.
Yeah, when a show's as badly written as STD there's sure no virtue to "story arcs" - those people have enough trouble writing an episode.
To me, Discovery’s approach — absurdly exaggerated stakes that are tied up neatly in the finale — already feels as tired as the episodic ship shows did at Trek’s low ebb. The problem is predictability, and the serialized format has already fallen into it.
Tripping over themselves?
No I don't think so. Their version of the Enterprise looks more like the TMP version then the TOS version. The Enterprise ship interiors look like nothing like they did in TOS, and the uniforms also look nothing like they did in TOS.
As for Captain Pike, they do a really good job in keeping with the tone of the one episode we saw him in and I don't think previous Canon or continuity really hamperd their take on the character.
Overall I think they were respectful of Canon in continuity from TOS but no they weren't bending over backwards to do anything with respect to The cannoner continuity of TOS.
The Pike Series could serve a specific purpose: to tell Short Treks stories in longer form. There was an interview with Anson Mount that I read the other day and this was one of the interview questions along with the answer.
link
Cutting and pasting to the bullet point:
link
Cutting and pasting to the bullet point:
- Alex Kurtzman has talked about how he wants to make a lot of Star Trek shows, but that they all need to be unique, distinct. They can't all be just more of the same thing. I was wondering if you’ve put any thought into, if there were a Pike spinoff, what the unique flavor that hypothetical spinoff would bring to the franchise would be, that you couldn't get from those other shows?
AM: Ah, that's a good question. I read a couple of different drafts of the pilot of Discovery because I was in discussions with them to possibly play Lorca, and they very wisely hired Jason Isaacs. But every creative choice that they made for Discovery is absolutely what I would've done as well. My pace in television is usually serialized, rather than episodic or procedural. I don't feel that we had seen enough Trek with longer storylines, with more connective tissue between episodes.
That said, I think that to do a retro Enterprise show, it almost wants to be episodic, big idea of the week kind of thing. Not that there can't be character development. There was in the original. But yeah, it just feels to me like it would fit well into a more of an episodic structure, like the original and like The Next Generation.
Its not "hate". Its we have had almost 700 frigging episodes of Star Trek that was done this way(outside of S3 of Enterprise and some of DS9). We've had two season of serialized Trek in Discovery that add up to a little of one seasons of TNG/TOS style trek.
