Reasons not to make a Pike show

[The Wormhole]

Tripping over themselves?

No I don't think so. Their version of the Enterprise looks more like the TMP version then the TOS version. The Enterprise ship interiors look like nothing like they did in TOS, and the uniforms also look nothing like they did in TOS.

As for Captain Pike, they do a really good job in keeping with the tone of the one episode we saw him in and I don't think previous Canon or continuity really hamperd their take on the character.

Overall I think they were respectful of Canon in continuity from TOS but no they weren't bending over backwards to do anything with respect to The cannoner continuity of TOS.

The Enterprise's interior definitely draws more from TOS than any other Starfleet ship seen in Disco does. They're even including all kinds of little details left out of the other ships, the bridge chairs are modeled after the TOS ones, the turbolifts have the handles, the briefing room has the triple-sided monitor. The Enterprise has all the familiar TOS sound effects as opposed to the other ships using sound effects from the 24th century shows. The uniforms are done in a definite TOS-style complete with the TOS style sleeve braids for the ranks as opposed to the other uniforms using 24th century pips etched onto the chest insignia.

And this isn't even limited to the Starfleet side of things. The Klingons have had their look tamed down from being as drastically different as it was in the first season to something more in line with the look from the movies and the shows besides TOS, the bat'leths have been changed from the completely different look they had in the first season to something more resembling the traditional look, and most infamously the ship referred to as a D-7 in the first season is gone, replaced by the original design D-7.

The second season of Disco has made a very conscious and obvious decision to abandon where possible the first season redesign and go for something a hell of a lot more familiar.

 

[Noname Given]

The second season of Disco has made a very conscious and obvious decision to abandon where possible the first season redesign and go for something a hell of a lot more familiar.

As an original TOS an, I COULDN'T disagree more. Again, nothing on ST: D or the Short Treks looks anything like the ORIGINAL TOS from 1966-1969. Hell, (unlike ENT "In A Mirror Darkly" which had a very good looking TOS era Starship/Constitution class; and they had Archer wearing a near picture perfect version of Kirk's V neck top uniform, and the NX-01 cast had picture perfect recreations of TOS era uniforms when they were on the Defiant sets ); the ST: D 1701 looks nothing like the TOS 1701 model used for either TOS "The Cage" or the series proper. It really doesn't. Nor does the Bridge set interior. As for the Corridor sets, they're the SAME sets used for the U.S.S. Discovery with some orange trim added. The Uniforms also look nothing like TOS beyond the color scheme.

Again, I'm not complaining here as I do understand WHY they did what they did what they did - that said, because it really DOESN'T look exactly the same, or really close overall; I dispute the claim that they "Bent over backwards..." to stick with the original TOS continuity or visual set style.

They honored it nicely; but they didn't "Bend over backwards.." -- Now, from the majority of the promos the show they seemed to really "Bend over backwards.." for IS Star Trek: Picard. The 1701-D hologram looks exactly like the Galaxy Class from the TNG era, The same goes for Picard's TNG era uniform in the flashback shot that in the trailers for ST: P.

 

[Mudd]

Most of the design for the Enterprise - the uniforms and particularly the bridge - are very observant of TOS, more so than the TOS-based movies including the Abrams films. I've really enjoyed seeing a modern interpretation of all of that.

And yeah, sticking jelly-bean buttons on it, copying the floor layout, putting a moire scanner and a boxy blue-lit viewer and all those banks of red/yellow/green annunciators around the perimeter of the set, along with the Burke chairs, is most certainly "bending over backward" to evoke TOS.

 

[eschaton]

Its not "hate". Its we have had almost 700 frigging episodes of Star Trek that was done this way(outside of S3 of Enterprise and some of DS9). We've had two season of serialized Trek in Discovery that add up to a little of one seasons of TNG/TOS style trek.

I don't understand this idea that the choice is between doing season-long plot arcs versus a return to the Voyager reset button. No one is asking for the latter. Everyone I think wants to have characters grow over time and later stories which call back to earlier ones. What we're looking for is the greater versatility in storytelling that not forcing everything into a season long arc allows for.

I mean, an an example, look at the final season of DS9. Even if you discount the final eight episodes - which were a completely serialized arc - the remainder of the season almost entirely built on what came before. You had an opening two-parter which dealt with some left-over issues from last season. You had several episodes focused on Ezri Dax and her integration with the symbiont and the crew. You had a return of "the Jack Pack" and Section 31. You had a brilliant sendoff to Kor. You had a frontline battle episode which was followed up a few weeks later by an amazing focus on post-traumatic stress. There was not a single episode that really would have made much sense if they reworked the story concept for Voyager or something.

That was the thing that was most amazing about DS9, IMHO. They managed to have a mostly cohesive (if not tightly wound) narrative spanning seven seasons, along with full character arcs - they did so through many different styles of storytelling, working some of Trek's best lighthearted/comedic episodes into the depths of the Dominion War.

My ideal for a Pike show would be to not go with what the TOS/TNG formula was - which was usually to port in a story concept and basically dump the existing characters into the situation. Instead it would be to use varying scenarios - from the sublime to the surreal to the sometimes silly - to bring out the different facets of the characters, to explore who they are, and to watch them "grow up" in a sense on camera. I don't think we really need anything more than that for an entertaining Trek show. Certainly we could do with a little less multiverse saving.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Huh?

Isn’t it obvious? Why should the franchise settle for the easy spinoff that can be put together using existing resources rather than go for the next astonishing concept? Is there something about ST that demands hundreds of fairly predictable hours?

 

[Mudd]

Why should the franchise settle for the easy spinoff that can be put together using existing resources rather than go for the next astonishing concept?

Because it's what they do. It's what they've done for forty-odd years now.

There are no "next astonishing concepts" in Star Trek. You're looking for a different franchise.

 

[eschaton]

There are no "next astonishing concepts" in Star Trek. You're looking for a different franchise.

Trek isn't about the concepts, IMHO. At least, not overarching ones. Trek is about setting up a framework which can be used to tell basically any kind of science fiction story, from time travel to first contact to man versus machine. It has also - generally - from the beginning approached those scenarios with a unique spin - not the cynicism or horror twist of a Twilight Zone or Outer Limits (or the latter day version - Black Mirror) but instead with a framework which defaults towards compassion - towards recognizing there are no true monsters, only different kinds of people with their own unique perspectives, which in some cases bring them into conflict with the main characters.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Again, there are no in-built brakes that prevent the franchise from turning out better iterations, and neither is there any reason for fans (!) to petition for middling Star Trek. And yes, Trek is about setting up a storytelling framework, but the problem here is that people focus on that part (“give us Pike‘s command!”) rather than just the stories — they need to be good enough to survive without legacy trappings and never be propped up by them.

 

[Mudd]

Again, there are no in-built brakes that prevent the franchise from turning out better iterations...

Yes there are.

 

[eschaton]

Again, there are no in-built brakes that prevent the franchise from turning out better iterations, and neither is there any reason for fans (!) to petition for middling Star Trek. And yes, Trek is about setting up a storytelling framework, but the problem here is that people focus on that part (“give us Pike‘s command!”) rather than just the stories — they need to be good enough to survive without legacy trappings and never be propped up by them.

I agree with this in part - there's no particular reason why we need a Pike show versus another starship show with anyone else as a framework to explore the Trek universe.

That said, a Pike show has some advantages. The three main cast members are already cast, and popular. And the main sets are already constructed, which is a big part of the "sunk cost" related to a new Trek series. If we're going to get a "traditional" Trek show (rather than high concept) it's going to be Discoprise.

I'd also say that the constraints of a Pike show could tend to lead towards a more successful show than Discovery. Pike is a character with some history - and Discovery added a bit more - but he's not leaden with backstory in the way that Michael is. Hopefully the writers would also avoid the mistake of Discovery's first season and not introduce giant existential public threats to the Federation in a prequel setting as well.

 

[Amasov]

• The 23rd century: Kurtzman and company just spent two years struggling with the nuances and frustrations of fitting a series into a predefined setting - only to finally throw up their hands and flee a thousand years hence. And that was without dealing with established characters whose fates are preordained. Why should they feel confident in going through that again?

Possibly, but, I'd at least say this, that was the Discovery writer's problem, assuming that was even the case. While Kurtzman would oversee things, he's more involved in Discovery than the other shows; just as Berman oversaw everything, but stayed with Voyager and let the DS9 team (mostly) just do their thing. This show would have an entirely different group of writers.

Discovery's biggest problem was the constant shifting of showrunners and writers and because of that, the show never really seemed to have a clear vision at the start. People like to say canon is a problem, and yes, it absolutely can be, but that's only if you want to tell stories that the era you set your show in doesn't allow. And that's what they seemed to want to do with Discovery.

All a Pike series has to do is take Star Trek back to basics. They just need to set it on the Enterprise and have them explore the galaxy on a five year mission. There's more than enough room to play and not go too far off the reservation. The show's logical conclusion comes when Pike is promoted and hands command of the ship over to Kirk. What happens in between then can be just about anything. I honestly don't see canon getting in the way of things for a Pike series. I've always said there's no reason not to think that the crew Kirk served with started serving under Pike toward the end of his tour albeit in lower-ranking positions.

And while some have said up in the thread that a Pike show would have to be different, based on Discovery's first two seasons, what Picard LOOKS to be doing and what S31 could be about, no Trek show in any stage of production is about exploring the galaxy. Is it different by enlarge? No. But it would stand out against its contemporaries.

 

[eschaton]

All a Pike series has to do is take Star Trek back to basics. They just need to set it on the Enterprise and have them explore the galaxy on a five year mission. There's more than enough room to play and not go too far off the reservation. The show's logical conclusion comes when Pike is promoted and hands command of the ship over to Kirk. What happens in between then can be just about anything. I honestly don't see canon getting in the way of things for a Pike series. I've always said there's no reason not to think that the crew Kirk served with started serving under Pike toward the end of his tour albeit in lower-ranking positions.

Perhaps - though some of the crew - like Sulu, Chekhov, and Uhura - were in-universe pretty young, making it unlikely they spent much if any time with Pike.

McCoy and Scott were the oldsters of the TOS crew, and would reasonably be expected to be established in their careers even during the time period of Discovery. Thus a Discoprise show which includes both of them in some sort of role wouldn't be surprising. And it would give us a chance to perhaps see how the prickly "frenemy" relationship between McCoy and Spock started.

 

[BillJ]

I've always said there's no reason not to think that the crew Kirk served with started serving under Pike toward the end of his tour albeit in lower-ranking positions.

Problem being: can Kurtzman resist all the TOS candy that is there in a Pike series? Can he resist the Romulans? The Klingons? Scott? Sulu? Uhura? Heck, he even helped cram Chekov onto the Enterprise a decade earlier than he was supposed to be in the movies.

I'm not convinced the current TPTB can really do a show that stands on its own. Whether it be arc-based or episodic. I would love to be surprised.

 

[BillJ]

And it would give us a chance to perhaps see how the prickly "frenemy" relationship between McCoy and Spock started.

Stuff like this never lives up to the hype/potential. Best to leave it alone.

 

[fireproof78]

I see no reason for a Pike series to revisit any of the TOS crewmembers, besides Spock. I would like to see Tyler, Colt, and Boyce, and explore those characters a little bit more.

 

[Amasov]

Perhaps - though some of the crew - like Sulu, Chekhov, and Uhura - were in-universe pretty young, making it unlikely they spent much if any time with Pike.

McCoy and Scott were the oldsters of the TOS crew, and would reasonably be expected to be established in their careers even during the time period of Discovery. Thus a Discoprise show which includes both of them in some sort of role wouldn't be surprising. And it would give us a chance to perhaps see how the prickly "frenemy" relationship between McCoy and Spock started.

Agreed - and I should've been more specific. I could see Sulu and Uhura joining eventually - toward the end of Pike's tour and closer to Kirk's.

Stuff like this never lives up to the hype/potential. Best to leave it alone.

I mean, I guess? That's pretty non-open-minded.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

The basics of Star Trek aren’t (moderately) famous legacy characters. Roddenberry had no problem replacing Pike and most of his crew or Kirk and his crew afterwards. As eschaton correctly pointed out, they began as mere connecting tissue in a kind of a “soft anthology” format, where different writers could come in and write original SF. While it may be possible to avoid temptation and use the ”Pike Framework” for this purpose, I’d rather do away with distractions, including the whole unnecessary topic of updating the 2250s or not. In a way it’s like doing a new Twilight Zone and saying you gotta have Talky Tina and “It’s a cookbook!” Absolutely not — you just gotta have different defining stories.

 

[Amasov]

The basics of Star Trek aren’t (moderately) famous legacy characters. Roddenberry had no problem replacing Pike and most of his crew or Kirk and his crew afterwards.

That's not what I said. What I mean as far as back to "basics" is the show's premise. Yes, you could do a totally different Star Trek show with the same premise, but, because Pike, Number One and Spock (at this point in his life) are so underdeveloped, it might as well be a set of new characters. Utilizing legacy characters just adds another layer to it.

 

[Noname Given]

I'm not convinced the current TPTB can really do a show that stands on its own. Whether it be arc-based or episodic. I would love to be surprised.

This same old argument again - <Yawn>

Sorry, but except for TOS no Star Trek show has ever stood on it's own. Hell TNG had a Dr. McCoy cameo in the pilot; did "The Naked Now" as the first 'regular episode (and mentioned Kirk and Spock in it) - and most didn't consider it starting to speak with it's own voice until midway into the third season (about 60 episodes.) By comparison to date ST: D has produced 29 episodes - roughly akin to the number of episodes in TNG's AWFUL first season.

DS9's pilot showed the Battle of Wolf 359 (from TNG's S4 - "Best of Both Worlds II"; and had Picard and Ben Sisco in a near confrontation about Ben's and VERY early first season episodes had visits from The Duras Sisters (from TNG's S4 and S5 "Redemtion I & II" and TNG S7 - "Firstborn") and Q.

VOY started at DS9 and had a scene with Quark talking to some of the crew before they left to the Badlands, and ALSO brought in Q and a visit from William Riker (which Q said he would not remember...how convenient like it really matter that Riker would be able to know/tell Star Fleet - "Hey, U.S.S. Voyager isn't missing...")
^^^
Yeah, it's horrible that subsequent Star Trek series take what they've built on previously and use it to tell more stories. It's like some Star trek fans are upset Star Trek makes use of its own Universe.

 

[BillJ]

It's like some Star trek fans are upset Star Trek makes use of its own Universe.

More like upset when that is all it is. Eating its own flesh as its only means of survival.

Let's be clear, it can work when using its own universe. Star Trek: Vanguard is probably some of the finest storytelling to ever grace Trek. It criss-crosses with TOS as warp speed. But it was also highly entertaining and had its own vision beyond just name dropping whatever they thought popular.

Discovery has mostly been a poorly written train wreck that has added little of substance to the universe. And if that mindset is all they're going to bring to a Pike series, I'd rather they just not do it.

YMMV.