Reason it's so dark in "Generations" Maybe it was Halloween or "The Purge."I

[The Wormhole]

I know that was the official explaination given at the time, I'm not sure I buy that theory.

It seems a reasonable explanation to me. Especially when you consider most of the sets used from the TV shows in First Contact and Insurrection were also darkened in the movies. In First Contact we had the bridge of the Defiant which was dark and heavily damaged, the Enterprise's sickbay was the set used for Voyager's sickbay, which was also darkened. In Insurrection, the runabout cockpit was used for Picard and Worf's shuttle, darkened. Picard's quarters are Janeway's, again darkened. Although, curiously enough Deanna's office is Janeway's ready room, and seems to be regularly lit.

 

[Jedman67]

Most telling is herman Zimmerman's assertion at the time that they hoped people would say "This is how it really looked on TV". The set changes were evidently intended to be some kind of retcon.

Not entirely. The ramp was split to add more actors for Dramatic Purposes. What works on TV doesn't always work in a movie and vice versa. I'd read his statement to mean "This is what we should have done from the beginning, if we had the time and budget and a cinema audience."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The extra consoles & ramps on the 1701-D in Generations were there simply because the film was in widescreen and the TV show wasn't. So they had to find something to fill the extra width of the screen.

 

[somebuddyX]

They were waiting on the replacement light bulbs. Were scheduled to arrive on Tuesday.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I wanted to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen in the same light as we saw it on TV

Flat, bright, and boring?

The difference isn't really in anything Berman or Carson are doing, it's John Alonzo as director of photography. He's the one supervising all of the lighting setups on the movie, so he's the one making decisions about how they're lit. He seems to have taken the view of trying to light the sets and characters with a more 'natural' light scheme, ie the characters and sets were being lit from sources like the Armagosa sun coming from the view-screens as opposed to the way the TV series used flood lighting that was consistent across the board. There were times when the sets were actually lit similarly on TV, it just wasn't their default lighting scheme on the show. Alonzo saw the sets and came at the task with an eye to making them look as good as they possibly could on the big screen.

^^ This. I have my problems with GEN, but those spring mainly from the godawful story. Thanks to Alonzo's lighting and cinematography, GEN is one of the better looking Trek movies. When you see the sunlight streaming into Ten-Forward, it feels like the Enterprise-D is actually in space, rather than on a Hollywood soundstage. Hiring Alonzo was one of the smartest ideas Berman & Carson had.

Besides, the man shot Chinatown, for God's sake. For that alone, he deserves a lifetime pass.

 

[Smellmet]

Thanks to Alonzo's lighting and cinematography, GEN is one of the better looking Trek movies.

I'd even go as far as placing it as the joint top best looking pre reboot movie alongside TMP.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Flat, bright, and boring?
.

Well obviously I didn't think it was boring, but yes.

Like I said, the lighting choices accomplished the aim of making things seem more "cinematic." But I found it disappointing.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'd even go as far as placing it as the joint top best looking pre reboot movie alongside TMP.

I personally wouldn't, but don't let me stop you from doing so.

 

[Greg Cox]

Flat, bright, and boring?

^^ This. I have my problems with GEN, but those spring mainly from the godawful story. Thanks to Alonzo's lighting and cinematography, GEN is one of the better looking Trek movies. When you see the sunlight streaming into Ten-Forward, it feels like the Enterprise-D is actually in space, rather than on a Hollywood soundstage. Hiring Alonzo was one of the smartest ideas Berman & Carson had.

Besides, the man shot Chinatown, for God's sake. For that alone, he deserves a lifetime pass.

It was a very good-looking movie. That opening bit with the champagne bottle tumbling through space is gorgeous--and very cinematic.

.

 

[Smellmet]

It was a very good-looking movie. That opening bit with the champagne bottle tumbling through space is gorgeous--and very cinematic.

.

I think most of it was - all the shots of the Enterprise B were stunning, the bridge scenes just looked so much more cinematic to me too, I felt it looked so much more like a proper film than the two that followed. The amagosa stuff was all great, I loved the sunlight flooding in, it really gave the sets some realism. And the shot of the D approaching the observatory. Wow, what a great looking shot that really holds up well today. If only it was a bit longer. I even prefer the visual effects over FC and especially INS too.

 

[Christopher]

My biggest problem with the visuals of Generations is that it never gave us an introductory beauty shot of the Enterprise-D. They forgot that this was a movie instead of an episode and failed to adequately introduce the E-D to new viewers. The first shot of the ship was after the holodeck sequence and it was just a brief partial shot of the saucer from the rear, a standard angle from the series that failed to give a clear sense of what the ship looked like. Then there was a long stretch of interior scenes, then a brief, distant shot of the full ship by the observatory when the star imploded, then a quick shot of it warping away. We didn't get an exterior flyby of reasonable length until maybe halfway through the film, and it was just a pretty standard flyby angle from the show, with an almost stationary camera pointing at the ship from behind as it went by. Then another quick warp-entry shot at the end of the following Stellar Cartography sequence, then a few shots of its arrival at Veridian and faceoff with the Klingons. But we didn't get any extensive coverage of the ship exterior until the battle and crash sequences.

They should've introduced the ship after the holodeck sequence with a big, impressive beauty shot showing it off -- nothing as lengthy as the TMP flyaround, but at least something like our introduction to the Enterprise in the 2009 movie, something to make the ship an impressive presence from the get-go rather than an afterthought. Maybe, after Picard leaves the holodeck, do an interior montage with the crew bustling about their business on various sets, treating it as a pullout that eventually takes the camera out through a window or shuttle-bay hatch and pulls out until the whole immense ship comes into view, giving a sense of its vast scale that we rarely got on a TV budget -- like a reverse of the zoom-in on Picard in the observation lounge windows at the start of "Encounter at Farpoint." And there should've been more establishing beauty shots of the ship in the first half when they cut to shipboard scenes from somewhere else. Not only would that have given new viewers a stronger sense of place in the first half of the film, but it would've let them identify more with the ship and raise the stakes for its eventual destruction.

 

[Smellmet]

My biggest problem with the visuals of Generations is that it never gave us an introductory beauty shot of the Enterprise-D. They forgot that this was a movie instead of an episode and failed to adequately introduce the E-D to new viewers. The first shot of the ship was after the holodeck sequence and it was just a brief partial shot of the saucer from the rear, a standard angle from the series that failed to give a clear sense of what the ship looked like. Then there was a long stretch of interior scenes, then a brief, distant shot of the full ship by the observatory when the star imploded, then a quick shot of it warping away. We didn't get an exterior flyby of reasonable length until maybe halfway through the film, and it was just a pretty standard flyby angle from the show, with an almost stationary camera pointing at the ship from behind as it went by. Then another quick warp-entry shot at the end of the following Stellar Cartography sequence, then a few shots of its arrival at Veridian and faceoff with the Klingons. But we didn't get any extensive coverage of the ship exterior until the battle and crash sequences.

They should've introduced the ship after the holodeck sequence with a big, impressive beauty shot showing it off -- nothing as lengthy as the TMP flyaround, but at least something like our introduction to the Enterprise in the 2009 movie, something to make the ship an impressive presence from the get-go rather than an afterthought. Maybe, after Picard leaves the holodeck, do an interior montage with the crew bustling about their business on various sets, treating it as a pullout that eventually takes the camera out through a window or shuttle-bay hatch and pulls out until the whole immense ship comes into view, giving a sense of its vast scale that we rarely got on a TV budget -- like a reverse of the zoom-in on Picard in the observation lounge windows at the start of "Encounter at Farpoint." And there should've been more establishing beauty shots of the ship in the first half when they cut to shipboard scenes from somewhere else. Not only would that have given new viewers a stronger sense of place in the first half of the film, but it would've let them identify more with the ship and raise the stakes for its eventual destruction.

I'll always take a bit of starship porn, yeah I can see what you mean. I would have been happy just with a longer shot of it approaching the observatory - it just looked so good in that shot (and I'm no big fan of the 'D' either) but it was all too brief. To be honest I was never a fan of the E reveal in FC either, I was expecting more of a 'reveal'.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

My biggest problem with the visuals of Generations is that it never gave us an introductory beauty shot of the Enterprise-D. They forgot that this was a movie instead of an episode and failed to adequately introduce the E-D to new viewers. The first shot of the ship was after the holodeck sequence and it was just a brief partial shot of the saucer from the rear, a standard angle from the series that failed to give a clear sense of what the ship looked like. Then there was a long stretch of interior scenes, then a brief, distant shot of the full ship by the observatory when the star imploded, then a quick shot of it warping away. We didn't get an exterior flyby of reasonable length until maybe halfway through the film, and it was just a pretty standard flyby angle from the show, with an almost stationary camera pointing at the ship from behind as it went by. Then another quick warp-entry shot at the end of the following Stellar Cartography sequence, then a few shots of its arrival at Veridian and faceoff with the Klingons. But we didn't get any extensive coverage of the ship exterior until the battle and crash sequences.

They should've introduced the ship after the holodeck sequence with a big, impressive beauty shot showing it off -- nothing as lengthy as the TMP flyaround, but at least something like our introduction to the Enterprise in the 2009 movie, something to make the ship an impressive presence from the get-go rather than an afterthought. Maybe, after Picard leaves the holodeck, do an interior montage with the crew bustling about their business on various sets, treating it as a pullout that eventually takes the camera out through a window or shuttle-bay hatch and pulls out until the whole immense ship comes into view, giving a sense of its vast scale that we rarely got on a TV budget -- like a reverse of the zoom-in on Picard in the observation lounge windows at the start of "Encounter at Farpoint." And there should've been more establishing beauty shots of the ship in the first half when they cut to shipboard scenes from somewhere else. Not only would that have given new viewers a stronger sense of place in the first half of the film, but it would've let them identify more with the ship and raise the stakes for its eventual destruction.

Agreed. The Enterprise-B got some really nice beauty shots but the hero ship Enterprise-D? Not so much. Which is a real shame considering it was her last voyage.

 

[Christopher]

I'll always take a bit of starship porn, yeah I can see what you mean. I would have been happy just with a longer shot of it approaching the observatory - it just looked so good in that shot (and I'm no big fan of the 'D' either) but it was all too brief. To be honest I was never a fan of the E reveal in FC either, I was expecting more of a 'reveal'.

That was the problem with having the TV crew go straight into the movies. They were used to thinking of the Enterprise as a routine presence that you'd just briefly establish before cutting to your scene. They weren't approaching them like movies where the first look at the hero ship is an event. (Or the first look at the villain ship, in the case of Star Wars.)

 

[Smellmet]

That was the problem with having the TV crew go straight into the movies. They were used to thinking of the Enterprise as a routine presence that you'd just briefly establish before cutting to your scene. They weren't approaching them like movies where the first look at the hero ship is an event. (Or the first look at the villain ship, in the case of Star Wars.)

Totally agree. The Enterprise always needs a decent introduction. It didn't really get one in any of the TNG movies really did it?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Also, we barely had a chance to miss the crew before they were back in the movies. "All Good Things" aired on May 23rd, 1994. Generations debuted in theaters on November 18th. TMP reunited us with the TOS crew after 10 years. GEN reunited us with the TNG crew after a big seven months.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

My biggest problem with the visuals of Generations is that it never gave us an introductory beauty shot of the Enterprise-D. They forgot that this was a movie instead of an episode and failed to adequately introduce the E-D to new viewers.

To some extent, that's Jeri Taylor's doing.

Braga and Moore's early draft segued from the Enterprise-B to the Amargosa Observatory. We'd have seen the Romulan attack from the perspective of the crew there, and then the Enterprise-D would zoom in to save the day, and then we'd meet the D characters.

Taylor thought that the script went from one action sequence (B in the Nexus) to another action sequence (D driving off the Romulans), and she suggested introducing the characters instead. This resulted in a scene where we met the characters pushing eggs with their noses around the holodeck. Later this was replaced with Worf's promotion ceremony.

First Contact does the same sort of thing you're faulting (rightly, imho) Generations for -- there's no real money shot for the Enterprise-E. We're introduced to it with a pretty standard flyby, like it's a location we're already supposed to know and be familiar with. I suppose the deflector dish sequence is meant to "humanize" the ship, though.

Totally agree. The Enterprise always needs a decent introduction. It didn't really get one in any of the TNG movies really did it?

Nope. The films treat the D and the E like places the audience already knows and loves. With the D, that's probably justifiable. With the E, it's not, since it's a brand-new location in First Contact and, arguably, beyond that.

 

[Kor]

I agree that the lighting in GEN looked much more cinematic and visually interesting than the series, especially when watching on a thirty foot cinema screen.

Kor

 

[Christopher]

To some extent, that's Jeri Taylor's doing.

Braga and Moore's early draft segued from the Enterprise-B to the Amargosa Observatory. We'd have seen the Romulan attack from the perspective of the crew there, and then the Enterprise-D would zoom in to save the day, and then we'd meet the D characters.

Taylor thought that the script went from one action sequence (B in the Nexus) to another action sequence (D driving off the Romulans), and she suggested introducing the characters instead. This resulted in a scene where we met the characters pushing eggs with their noses around the holodeck. Later this was replaced with Worf's promotion ceremony.

The story could've been structured exactly the same way and still shown off the ship better. Replace that first,half-hearted exterior shot of the back of the saucer with a proper beauty-shot intro -- maybe led into by the montage I suggested. Add a few establishing shots of the ship exterior when cutting back to the ship from elsewhere, rather than just cutting directly to the interior. The problem isn't in the script phase, it's at the other end of the process. They could've given the ship more love in post-production and editing. Instead, they treated it as an afterthought.

Nope. The films treat the D and the E like places the audience already knows and loves. With the D, that's probably justifiable.

Not really. Not all Trek movie viewers are also Trek TV viewers, or even Trek viewers at all. The audiences overlap, but not entirely. A fair number of people were probably fans of the TOS movies, or just casual moviegoers, but had never watched TNG. That was the whole reason the makers of Generations deemed it necessary to make it a transitional movie from the TOS cast to the TNG cast, as a way of introducing the TOS-movie audience to a new cast and setting they weren't necessarily familiar with. So it didn't make sense both to make a transitional/introductory movie for a new audience and to assume the audience already knew everything about TNG.

I mean, look at Serenity. It didn't assume its audience was familiar with Firefly. It took care to reintroduce the world and the characters and the hero ship in its opening minutes, to re-establish everything as if it were from scratch, so that it worked both as a standalone and as a continuation of the series. Heck, ST:TMP did much the same thing, taking its time to introduce the main characters and their arcs one by one and to establish the world and the ship rather than taking them for granted.

The problem with GEN is that its makers were working on it while they were still wrapping up the TV show, so they were still approaching it like a TV episode. They should've taken more time between the end of the show and the movie, or should've handed the movie off to other people, so that it would've really been a fresh start.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Regarding the lighting, let's also not forget that most / all of the E-D sets were repainted for the movie, and darker at that. The DoP surely played off of this as well... As for the bridge upgrades, the main reason we got those side panels in the first place was so that they didn't have to have stations that would have to be manned every week, or in every shot - they put all the secondary stations at the back literally so that they would be paying less money for extras from the per-episode budget. When GEN came along, they had the cash to do just that, so they popped the lid on those side stations and manned them. They apparently used that same extras budget to change Ten Forward from a relaxing lounge into a Homestyle Buffet in terms of people in there. :P

Mark