Reason it's so dark in "Generations" Maybe it was Halloween or "The Purge."I

[Jayson1]

I got a couple of theories.

Theory 1 is the movie takes place during October and the ship was made all dark and spooky to simple celebrate the holiday.

Theory 2 is that humanity in Trek basically has a timeframe in which human's are allowed to go crazy and kill and whatnot for a short period of time to sort of let them get that stuff all out their system. This is how humanity was able to evolve. The ship had simply modified the place for the yearly event, when a mission came oup which means they had to delay it until a later time.

Jason

 

[Vger23]

Been drinking tonight?

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I know this is a pointless thread but that's one of the things that always bugged me about Generations. I wanted to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen in the same light as we saw it on TV (because it was a bright, cheery, comfy ship), and the movie people wanted it to look more "cinematic" I guess so they lit the sets differently.

It works as it's intended but that aspect always disappoints me when I watch the film.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

You know all those times Picard said that humans had evolved beyond the need for money? Turns out that was just his delusional way of getting out of paying the electric bill, and the electric company finally got fed up and pulled the plug.

 

[Christopher]

I know this is a pointless thread but that's one of the things that always bugged me about Generations. I wanted to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen in the same light as we saw it on TV (because it was a bright, cheery, comfy ship), and the movie people wanted it to look more "cinematic" I guess so they lit the sets differently.

There's a practical reason for that. TV shows are generally watched on moderate-sized screens (much smaller on average when TNG was on) in relatively well-lit rooms, but movies are made to be watched on gigantic screens in darkened theaters. So TV-style lighting would look too bright on a movie screen. But when you're watching both the episodes and the movie on the same living-room TV or computer screen, that distinction is lost, so the change seems arbitrary.

 

[Lance]

^ I know that was the official explaination given at the time, I'm not sure I buy that theory. TNG in HD watched on a cinema screen looks as good as any of the movies. Also those sets were built to a very high standard (many began life being used in the Star Trek movies through the 1980s, after all.) It's like the similar argument the movie producers made about changing the uniforms, when the regular TNG series uniforms look perfectly fine in Generations. Truthfully, I think they just wanted to change things up a bit, but felt the need to find an excuse to justify those changes to the fans. (I think justification is unnecessary, it's perfectly easy to accept any changes as part of a refit or whatever.) Most telling is herman Zimmerman's assertion at the time that they hoped people would say "This is how it really looked on TV". The set changes were evidently intended to be some kind of retcon.

I got a couple of theories.

Theory 1 is the movie takes place during October and the ship was made all dark and spooky to simple celebrate the holiday.

Theory 2 is that humanity in Trek basically has a timeframe in which human's are allowed to go crazy and kill and whatnot for a short period of time to sort of let them get that stuff all out their system. This is how humanity was able to evolve. The ship had simply modified the place for the yearly event, when a mission came oup which means they had to delay it until a later time.

Jason

Theory 2 is basically Landru from "Return of the Archons".

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Landru

 

[Christopher]

^ I know that was the official explaination given at the time, I'm not sure I buy that theory. TNG in HD watched on a cinema screen looks as good as any of the movies.

Well, maybe Rick Berman, David Carson, etc. didn't have confidence that that would be the case.

Also those sets were built to a very high standard (many began life being used in the Star Trek movies through the 1980s, after all.)

Well, what that means is that the underlying wooden superstructure of the sets had been standing since 1978. The surface layers that we saw on camera had been pretty much completely replaced for TNG, except in the corridors. So the level of detail of the visible portions might not have been up to feature standards.

Most telling is herman Zimmerman's assertion at the time that they hoped people would say "This is how it really looked on TV". The set changes were evidently intended to be some kind of retcon.

Well, that's natural enough. That was sort of the thinking behind the TMP redesigns as well, albeit more figuratively. Fans like to think of what they see in a show or movie as absolute gospel, but for the creators, it's usually more like the best approximation of their intentions that they could manage with the available time, money, and resources. So it may look fine to the audience, but to the creators, it's a compromise, something less than what they envisioned. Having a movie's more generous budget and schedule lets them create a closer approximation of what they had in mind all along.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I've read before that it's because the Next Gen sets were made for TV, not massive HD theatre screens. Basically, it was to hide the imperfections.

Haven't watched enough TNG HD to know how the sets hold up.

 

[mos6507]

TV-style lighting would look too bright on a movie screen

Someone forgot to school JJ about this.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Someone forgot to school JJ about this.

When you have to use a photoshopped pic to make your point...

 

[Christopher]

Just because different directors and cinematographers have different opinions about what works, that doesn't mean their choices are invalid. It would be illogical to expect all creative people to do things exactly the same way.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I got a couple of theories.

Theory 1 is the movie takes place during October and the ship was made all dark and spooky to simple celebrate the holiday.

Or maybe it was Christmas .. which could tie in with Picards nexus, he was feeling reflective as it was that time of year..

 

[Smellmet]

I know this is a pointless thread but that's one of the things that always bugged me about Generations. I wanted to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen in the same light as we saw it on TV (because it was a bright, cheery, comfy ship), and the movie people wanted it to look more "cinematic" I guess so they lit the sets differently.

It works as it's intended but that aspect always disappoints me when I watch the film.

I think it's one of the best aspects of the movie. I wish FC and INS looked this good.

 

[Lance]

Just because different directors and cinematographers have different opinions about what works, that doesn't mean their choices are invalid. It would be illogical to expect all creative people to do things exactly the same way.

This is the nub of the matter. The difference isn't really in anything Berman or Carson are doing, it's John Alonzo as director of photography. He's the one supervising all of the lighting setups on the movie, so he's the one making decisions about how they're lit. He seems to have taken the view of trying to light the sets and characters with a more 'natural' light scheme, ie the characters and sets were being lit from sources like the Armagosa sun coming from the view-screens as opposed to the way the TV series used flood lighting that was consistent across the board. There were times when the sets were actually lit similarly on TV, it just wasn't their default lighting scheme on the show. Alonzo saw the sets and came at the task with an eye to making them look as good as they possibly could on the big screen.

My point is, that I think the darkened sets were done for an artistic reason, not (as is far too often supposed) because they looked "too cheap for the big screen".

I think it's one of the best aspects of the movie. I wish FC and INS looked this good.

Absolutely agree. I think the sets in FC and INS look flat and tired, and nowhere near as dynamic as GENS does. Again, it's down to the way the director of photography in those movies is lighting them, and the choice of colors.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I've read before that it's because the Next Gen sets were made for TV, not massive HD theatre screens. Basically, it was to hide the imperfections.

That, and to hide how worn out some of the sets were from seven years of use. The same is true of the uniforms; they were showing their age as any article of clothing four or five years old and frequently laundered would.

 

[Christopher]

This is the nub of the matter. The difference isn't really in anything Berman or Carson are doing, it's John Alonzo as director of photography. He's the one supervising all of the lighting setups on the movie, so he's the one making decisions about how they're lit.

Not really. On any movie, it's ultimately the director who makes the decisions. Other staffers are the ones responsible for figuring out how to carry out the director's ideas, or for proposing options that the director chooses among. On a TV series, with directors coming and going week by week, it's the executive producer who makes those final decisions -- Berman in the case of TV Trek. On the TNG movies, it was probably somewhere between the two. But when it comes to decisions about how to light a set, that buck stops with the director. The DP's job is to work with the director to make the shot look the way the director imagines it -- or, ideally, even better.

 

[shatastrophic]

Generations took place on their last night shift...they were all working at night cause of the red alert due to the attack on the station...

Worf gets promoted- 19:00 pm
Emergency distress call from the station-19:30 pm
Riker takes over investigation- 19:45 pm
Data gets emotion chip- 20:00 pm
Riker reports back, Data and Geordi go to 10 forward- 20:30 pm
Soran destroys Ambrigosa star via quantum implosion- 22:00 pm
Enterprise warps outta the system- 22:04:40 pm
Picard and Data determine Soran's plan in stellar cartography- 23:38 pm
Enterprise reaches Veridian III- 01:00 am
Enterprise destroys BoP- 01:45 am
Enterprise crashes -02:12am, (08:00 am Veridian III time.)
Soran dies- 02:20 am
Kirk Dies- 02:30am
Completion of Picard dragging Kirk's body to mountain top, burying him, then small silent ceremony- 04:45am
Shuttle finds Picard hiking around- 05:42am
Shuttle makes it back to Enterprise saucer- 05:53am...

Picard gets back 7 mins before day watch is to begin, but there are no lights to turn on at that point....

 

[Smellmet]

Generations took place on their last night shift...they were all working at night cause of the red alert due to the attack on the station...

Worf gets promoted- 19:00 pm
Emergency distress call from the station-19:30 pm
Riker takes over investigation- 19:45 pm
Data gets emotion chip- 20:00 pm
Riker reports back, Data and Geordi go to 10 forward- 20:30 pm
Soran destroys Ambrigosa star via quantum implosion- 22:00 pm
Enterprise warps outta the system- 22:04:40 pm
Picard and Data determine Soran's plan in stellar cartography- 23:38 pm
Enterprise reaches Veridian III- 01:00 am
Enterprise destroys BoP- 01:45 am
Enterprise crashes -02:12am, (08:00 am Veridian III time.)
Soran dies- 02:20 am
Kirk Dies- 02:30am
Completion of Picard dragging Kirk's body to mountain top, burying him, then small silent ceremony- 04:45am
Shuttle finds Picard hiking around- 05:42am
Shuttle makes it back to Enterprise saucer- 05:53am...

Picard gets back 7 mins before day watch is to begin, but there are no lights to turn on at that point....

Interesting. Does is state in the film somewhere that it's 7pm at the beginning of the Enterprise D section of the film? Maybe they do turn the lights down at night.

Or are you just 'extracting the urine?'

 

[shatastrophic]

Interesting. Does is state in the film somewhere that it's 7pm at the beginning of the Enterprise D section of the film? Maybe they do turn the lights down at night.

Or are you just 'extracting the urine?'

The latter, just having fun! But in "Data's Day" they do raise the lights when morning shift starts...I love your av pic, 20 years difference between mine and yours and Shatner's smile is still the same.

 

[Smellmet]

The latter, just having fun! But in "Data's Day" they do raise the lights when morning shift starts...I love your av pic, 20 years difference between mine and yours and Shatner's smile is still the same.

Smile? More like scream!