Reality of Data

[varek]

I think Data was great, especially after reading how Picard rescued him from being used simply as a clerk.
Although he developed his own personality, I'm afraid I think he would have performed whatever task he was programmed to do at that time, even reprehensible ones, since he was still a machine.
But, he was usually the most dependable and most honest member of the crew, and I think he would have made a fine captain, as he did that one time with the tachyon grid.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

@2takesfrakes

If there is a soul that exists separate from the physical body, which I can't disprove, then I would agree that it can't be replicated by a machine. So that would be a stopping point for both of us in this debate. You believe that passions are the result of a spiritual presence and I believe that they are a result of electrochemical reactions in our brain.

But I would argue that whatever is the cause of our feeling of passion, it is well beyond our ability to understand. And something we can't even begin to understand, we certainly shouldn't be able to confidently claim monopoly on.

Humans are robots too. We're just organic ones.

 

[Timo]

If there is a soul that exists separate from the physical body, which I can't disprove, then I would agree that it can't be replicated by a machine.

Why would this be an obstacle? Machines tend to have physical bodies - why not souls as well? Advanced machines, like humans, can replicate their physical bodies - why not souls as well? If it's good for the goose, it would appear to be good for the cuckoo clock, too.

In reverse, what would be the mechanism by which a machine would not have a soul? Is soul perhaps something you inherit from your parents (which machines don't have)? But many a child is born without parents: today, thanks to wonders of medical technology, just the mother suffices, and tomorrow even that could be done away with. Will these children be soulless or half-souled? And what if a machine is built by parent machines?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Reeborg]

I'd say Data lives in some sort of ("organic") matrix created by mother Nature, so it might not seem quite real to him.

 

[JarodRussell]

If there is a soul that exists separate from the physical body, which I can't disprove, then I would agree that it can't be replicated by a machine.

Why would this be an obstacle? Machines tend to have physical bodies - why not souls as well? Advanced machines, like humans, can replicate their physical bodies - why not souls as well? If it's good for the goose, it would appear to be good for the cuckoo clock, too.

In reverse, what would be the mechanism by which a machine would not have a soul? Is soul perhaps something you inherit from your parents (which machines don't have)? But many a child is born without parents: today, thanks to wonders of medical technology, just the mother suffices, and tomorrow even that could be done away with. Will these children be soulless or half-souled? And what if a machine is built by parent machines?

Timo Saloniemi

There are two concepts: is the soul a result of complex interaction (which means an infinite number of souls can be created by nature itself), or is it something divine (which means that a god creates and puts souls into anything he/she deems worthy)? If the first applies, ANY (artificial) intelligence can have a soul, dogs, humans, computers. If the second applies, it's up to some divine power.

The idea that test-tube babies have no soul would be pretty cruel.

I guess that's why I don't believe in a soul at all. It's a religious concept introduced to create superiority: humans have a soul, animals don't, blacks and gingers don't have a soul, blabla.

 

[RAMA]

I'm not so sure about machine's taking our jobs. I don't know any grocery stores that have only automated checkout, in fact a local store recently removed their automated registers they were trying out. Web designers can shift their focus a little bit and still be highly valuable.

If you guys have seen "Her" I think it's a good example of how the divide between robots and humans would be huge. While an AI could mimic humans there's still an aspect that's inhuman, it may pretend to have human emotions when it's really just cold calculations going on.

Data of course is more a person, with all the little dashes of humanity they give him, but imagine Data without those. For instance in "The Most Toys" after the woman helping him was vaporized, Data is clearly in revenge mode. But an actual machine would probably be indifferent, which would be a disturbing lack of reaction to what occurred.

This avoids the REAL question, much like Ultimate Computer did...instead of "cold calculations" what if an AI really did think like a human, at what point do you draw the line in how you treat it?

While Data, by all accounts is sentient, he was not designed with a an emotion chip from the start..but he can! STNG tells us he could have been fully human-like. He was designed to learn and grow. When he did get the emotion chip, the learning curve was too steep and it was back to the drawing board. This does not mean it isn't possible that he couldn't be indistinguishable from us at some point.

Most AI researchers think a human level, or even supra human level AI is possible in a few decades. We'd better start planning to deal with them rather than telling ourselves they can't possibly think or feel like us.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663367/infographic-of-the-day-the-next-25-years-in-emerging-tech

RAMA

 

[Makarov]

I certainly don't agree with Maddox or that character who refused to work under Data's command in Redemption. I just think without the benefit of the little human touches Data is given it would be a lot easier to sympathize with the other side of the argument.

In the show Data is still pretty human even while meant to have no emotions. They write him that way so that we'll like him.

In a more real scenario you might actually have Data killing someone or losing someone under his command and then him having no reaction. Or he might instantly shoot Picard whenever ordered by Lore. Do you want to serve under a being that devotes only a micro-thought and zero emotion to you if lost on a mission compared to a human, I think that would be a genuine concern - as indicated in that episode with Data's girlfriend.