Real Guy, Real Guy, Fictional Guy...

[JonnyQuest037]

I thought it might be fun to list some of the historical figures and events who are mentioned in passing in the ST Universe. Usually, they do this by listing a couple of names or events we already know, and then tossing in an additional, fictional person who did something equally important. TVTropes lists this trope as Famous, Famous, Fictional. It's a shorthand way to establish we're IN THE FUTURE!!! by casually name-dropping someone who did something significant that hasn't occurred yet.

I poked around on Star Trek Script Search a bit and here are the examples I found:

From TOS: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?":

KORBY: By continuing the process I could've transferred you, your very consciousness into that android. Your soul, if you wish. All of you. In android form, a human being can have practical immortality. Can you understand what I'm offering mankind?
KIRK: Programming. Different word, but the same old promises made by Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, Hitler, Ferris, Maltuvis.

From TOS: "Court Martial":

STONE: Counsels will kindly direct their remarks to the bench.
COGLEY: I'd be delighted to, sir, now that I've got something human to talk about. Rights, sir, human rights. The Bible, the Code of Hammurabi and of Justinian, Magna Carta, the Constitution of the United States, Fundamental Declarations of the Martian colonies, the Statutes of Alpha Three. Gentlemen, these documents all speak of rights. Rights of the accused to a trial by his peers, to be represented by counsel, the rights of cross-examination, but most importantly, the right to be confronted by the witnesses against him, a right to which my client has been denied.

From TOS: "Patterns of Force":

MCCOY: It also proves another Earth saying. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Darn clever, these Earthmen, wouldn't you say?
SPOCK: Yes. Earthmen like Ramses, Alexander, Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Lee Kuan. Your whole Earth history is made up of men seeking absolute power.

From TOS: "The Ultimate Computer":

KIRK: Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. Did Einstein, Kazanga, or Sitar of Vulcan produce new and revolutionary theories on a regular schedule? You can't simply say, today I will be brilliant. No matter how long it took, he came out with multitronics. The M-5.

From TOS: "Whom Gods Destroy":

GARTH: On your knees before me! All the others before me have failed. Alexander, Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Lee Kuan, Krotus! All of them are dust! But I will triumph! I will make the ultimate conquest!

From TOS: "The Savage Curtain":

SPOCK: Surak.
KIRK: Who?
SPOCK: The greatest of all who ever lived on our planet, Captain. The father of all we became.

ROCK: Captain, Mister Spock, some of these you may know through history. Genghis Khan, for one. And Colonel Green, who led a genocidal war early in the 21st century on Earth. Zora, who experimented with the body chemistry of subject tribes on Tiburon. Kahless the Unforgettable, the Klingon who set the pattern for his planet's tyrannies.

From Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan:

DAVID: Well, don't have kittens. Genesis is going to work. They'll remember you in one breath with Newton, Einstein, Surak...

From TNG: "The Defector":

PICARD: Splendid, Data. Splendid. You're getting better and better.
DATA: Freeze program. Thank you, sir. I plan to study the performances of Olivier, Branagh, Shapiro, Kullnark...

From TNG: "The Enemy":

PICARD: But we must measure our response carefully, or history may remember Galorndon Core along with Pearl Harbor and Station Salem One as the stage for a bloody preamble to war.

From TNG: "New Ground":

LAFORGE: No, no, no, no. I mean, we're going to see something that people will talk about for years. I mean, think about it. No more bulky warp engines or nacelles. A ship just generates a Soliton wave and then rides it through space like a surfboard. This is going to be like being there to watch Chuck Yeager break the sound barrier, or Zephram Cochrane engage the first warp drive.

From DS9: "The Muse":

ONAYA: It's not what I am that matters, it's what I do. You don't know the minds I've touched. Catullus, Tarbolde, Keats. a hundred others. I unlocked their potential.

(This was a reference to Phineas Tarbolde from TOS's "Where No Man Has Gone Before.")

From VOY: "Threshold":

JANEWAY: Well, good luck, Mister Paris. If this works, you'll be joining an elite group of pilots. Orville Wright, Neil Armstrong, Zefram Cochrane and Tom Paris.

From VOY: "The Thaw":

CLOWN: Ultimatum? Ultimatum? She would give me an ultimatum? Did Napoleon give an ultimatum after Waterloo? Did Chulak of Romulus give an ultimatum after his defeat at Galorndon Core? We won! We give the ultimatums around here.

Now some, like Zephram Cohrane, Surak, and Kahless, have been quite developed in the ST Universe over the years, but is anyone aware of further development on the others? Short stories, novels, further mentions? We've apparently got a lot more dictators and conquerors to look forward to, if the names Ferris, Maltuvis, Lee Kuan, Krotus, Col. Green, and Zora are anything to go by. Lee Kuan must have been really bad, since he or she gets a couple of mentions.

Can anyone think of some other examples that I missed? What's your favorite tantalizing passing mention of Star Trek history?

 

[Timo]

Interesting topic, considering how increasingly self-referential Trek is becoming, and can well afford to be.

Colonel Green finally got more than a name-drop in ENT "Demons"/"Terra Prime" - heck, the writer originally wanted the episodes to be about Green specifically. But Lee Kuan or Li Quan has only ever warranted further name-drops in the novels; predictably, Diane Carey's heroine felt he was a cool guy (and would probably have said the same of Khan and Hitler, although the book doesn't go to enough detail to establish which of those Lee Quan was contemporary with, only that he similarly voted himself the man best qualified to give the world order).

It would be interesting indeed to know how Surak gets to keep company with Newton and Einstein, who are chiefly known for their achievements in abstract (for their day) physics. Was Newton an outstanding pacifist in the Trek universe, perhaps? Or Einstein an outstanding mystic?

Another angle to ponder: which of these can pop up in DSC? The known characters are established as not present in the 2250s. Zora we don't know much about, though. Salem One is free game for 2250s hijinks, as is Lee Kuan if we ignore Diane Carey's connecting him with dictatorship on Earth. Tarbolde is probably gone by the time of DSC, or at least past his (?) prime, but the mystery thespians may still be practicing. Ferris, Maltuvis, Kazanga and Sitar can do whatever they wish whenever they wish, but Chulak must not be heard about until after the 2260s.

I'd bet, though, that whatever Sam Cogley refers to must be well past its best-before date in "Court Martial" already...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Now some, like Zephram Cohrane, Surak, and Kahless, have been quite developed in the ST Universe over the years, but is anyone aware of further development on the others?

Maltuvis is a recurring character in the Enterprise Rise of the Federation novels. Colonel Green was expanded upon and even seen in the Enterprise episode Demons.

 

[Timo]

Ah, another Augment. In that "Beta canon", Ferris is one, too. And if we want to hold on to Carey's Li Quan story yet not mess up Earth's pseudohistory as currently given, then that guy must have been a 1990s superman, too. I really wonder how Khan became the household name for that phenomenon by the time of DS9, rather than one of these actual big guys...

There's some merit to Kirk rattling off Earth dictators exclusively in "Little Girls" - and it then becomes unlikely that the last two could have existed past WWIII. But it's not all that satisfying to cram them all into the 1990s and leave the early 21st century devoid of cool despicable supervillains.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It would be interesting indeed to know how Surak gets to keep company with Newton and Einstein, who are chiefly known for their achievements in abstract (for their day) physics.

I wonder if that was THE Surak, or just another historically-important Vulcan who shared his name. I'm sure it was intended as the same guy. Probably just Nicholas Meyer (or whoever wrote that line) remembered the name and mistakenly assumed "Famous Vulcan = Scientist."

Another angle to ponder: which of these can pop up in DSC?

I found one passing mention of Cochrane on DSC, right after Elon Musk, but I didn't do any searching for that series, as I still have yet to watch it (I'm hoping for the BluRay set for Christmas).

Maltuvis is a recurring character in the Enterprise Rise of the Federation novels.

Interesting! What was his or her deal? Feel free to use spoiler text if you'd like.

Colonel Green was expanded upon and even seen in the Enterprise episode Demons.

I knew that. I don't know why I didn't note it.

 

[Timo]

I wonder if that was THE Surak, or just another historically-important Vulcan who shared his name. I'm sure it was intended as the same guy. Probably just Nicholas Meyer (or whoever wrote that line) remembered the name and mistakenly assumed "Famous Vulcan = Scientist."

Might be pseudofactually correct, too. The other Diane wrote that Surak was a computer scientist who just happened to also become the Vulcan Jesus/Gandhi/Li Quan/whatever... Canon hasn't contradicted her on that yet.

The concept of "other Suraks" is interesting in its own right, of course. Do Vulcans allow for reuse of names? Is this something they could avoid, in a logical fashion? Diane Duane also had a Sarek advise Earth on the formulating of the Romulan Peace Treaty, back when Spock's dad must have been but a toddler at best.

I found one passing mention of Cochrane on DSC, right after Elon Musk, but I didn't do any searching for that series, as I still have yet to watch it (I'm hoping for the BluRay set for Christmas).

Apparently you know, then, that the transcripts are up at https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/episode_scripts.php?tv-show=star-trek-discovery-2017 ? Just for the benefit of the rest...

There were a couple of lists including familiar references, usually of locations. But AFAIK no "real, real, fictional" lists.

And one really must wonder what Musk could have achieved in the Trek universe. Colonizing of Mars is so 1990s...

Interesting! What was his or her deal? Feel free to use spoiler text if you'd like.

Memory Beta has a lot of dirt on the two Augments (and basically the whole story of Li Quan as told by Diane Carey). I'd love to hear more from somebody who has actually read Greg Cox' relevant works, too, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[J.T.B.]

Archaeological reference to this trope:

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I can't seem to post time-specific links, so go to 00:07:20. Letterman seems to genuinely crack up over this reference.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That line in New Ground is always ironic to hear knowing that they, in fact, WERE there when Zefram Cochrane ran the first warp test.

 

[Nerys Myk]

KIRK: Programming. Different word, but the same old promises made by Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, Hitler, Ferris, Maltuvis.

Come on, Ferris wasn't so bad. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Isn't it possible that Surak was a scientist by profession, before he became the Vulcan messiah?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Isn't it possible that Surak was a scientist by profession, before he became the Vulcan messiah?

Vulcans like to have multiple professions. Spock was a scientist turned ambassador. T'Pol was a scientist and spy. Sarek seemed to have a science background in addition to being a diplomat.

 

[The Wormhole]

Interesting! What was his or her deal? Feel free to use spoiler text if you'd like.

Here's the Memory Beta page:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Maltuvis_(Saurian)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That line in New Ground is always ironic to hear knowing that they, in fact, WERE there when Zefram Cochrane ran the first warp test.

That's pretty much why I included that one. I've only seen that episode maybe once, so it was new to me.

Come on, Ferris wasn't so bad. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.

Nicely played.

Isn't it possible that Surak was a scientist by profession, before he became the Vulcan messiah?

Certainly. Heck, that transition could be a very interesting story in itself. Perhaps Vulcans revere Surak mainly for his effect on their culture, while humans like Carol and David Marcus remember him mostly for his scientific breakthroughs. That could explain why Kirk didn't seem to be terribly familiar with him in "The Savage Curtain."

 

[F. King Daniel]

Might be pseudofactually correct, too. The other Diane wrote that Surak was a computer scientist who just happened to also become the Vulcan Jesus/Gandhi/Li Quan/whatever... Canon hasn't contradicted her on that yet.

Wasn't Diane Duane's Surak a data clerk by day and internet blogger by night?

 

[Timo]

Ah, indeed. Not credited with computer science breakthroughs as such. Then again, Vulcans seldom boast - Duane further credits Sarek with computing achievements, such as designing yet another unbreakable code for Vulcan cryptography needs.

Here's the Memory Beta page:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Maltuvis_(Saurian)

And the fun thing is that this is not all of it. One set of writers (chiefly Mike Johnson) decided Maltuvis was an Augment; Chris Bennett wanted diversity and more or less simultaneously, unaware of the competition, decided he was a Saurian instead.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Bernard_Maltuvis

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tim Thomason]

Ah, indeed. Not credited with computer science breakthroughs as such. Then again, Vulcans seldom boast - Duane further credits Sarek with computing achievements, such as designing yet another unbreakable code for Vulcan cryptography needs.



And the fun thing is that this is not all of it. One set of writers (chiefly Mike Johnson) decided Maltuvis was an Augment; Chris Bennett wanted diversity and more or less simultaneously, unaware of the competition, decided he was a Saurian instead.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Bernard_Maltuvis

Timo Saloniemi

And like Nero or characters such as Decius, we can maybe assume that Maltuvis is shorthand for an unpronounceable Saurian name for the Basileus that the UT adapted, in comparison with the Augment dictator.