Re-Watching VOY

[Qonundrum]

Looks like the Gallifrey Gals agree with me about Neelix.

And Kes should completely break up with Neelix. Two seasons and I still don't feel any romantic chemistry between them.


Chakotay as the Professor? Never someone I pictured him as! I always would've pictured the Doctor as the Professor, but maybe only because they're both men of science. Kim is Gilligan and Paris is the Skipper. They're always getting into crazy antics! That's all I've got.

I haven't seen Rainbow Brite since I was a kid. I have no idea how it would hold up now. I should probably check out an episode again sometime.

I saw a couple clips... yeah, it's 80s for sure.

The Brady Bunch, OTOH, I don't care what anyone says, I love that show. I've mentioned this before on TrekBBS, but in case you haven't seen me post it: I call TNG "Marcia", DS9 "Jan", and VOY "Cindy". So, I did the unusual thing. I started reviewing Jan first. Jan was happy about that. Now I'm reviewing Cindy too. I'm saving "Marcia! Marcia! Marcia!" for last. Marcia would be like, "You saved the best for last!"

I hadn't noticed the naming association, but now I have.

I see clips on YouTube and while some of it's dated, it has a transcendental charm and, indeed, some episodes don't feel as dated as they otherwise should. The payphone episode from season 1 always gets to me. Couldn't do that nowadays...

"The Enterprise Incident" is one in Top 5 List of Favorite TOS Episodes if not my Top 3. People love "Balance of Terror" and so do I, but "The Enterprise Incident" all the way!

'tis a great episode; my only nitpick (yep, it's inevitable!) is the lack of universal translator for Kirk vs the Centurian he tricks. (A "translation convention" to get around diverting the drama aside, it can explain the proceedings - Kirk probably knows Romulan but they didn't, or didn't think of, show it on screen with expensive subtitles.)

If the fight between Paris and Chakotay happened in "Investigations" instead of "Lifesigns", it would've been a perfect fit.

I'll be thinking about that for sure. As I get through these in borked order, I think what you're saying will be a far better fit...

And you've given me an idea. Next time I watch these episodes, and I'm sure there will be, I'm going to pay the soundtrack from "The Enterprise Incident" over the Tom Paris scenes to see how that works out!

Oh cool! That's a great idea! I recall some later VOY episodes (e,g, "Dark Frontier" having a soundtrack that harked back to TOS in a way... even in "Twisted" it's nice to have music in scenes and not wailing banshee trombones in the background as if they were practicing for their studio session for a Peanuts cartoon.)

Onto "Sacred Ground"!

I'm going to try to get through VOY Season 3 (and DS9 Season 5) more quickly. Mainly because I want to (finally!) get up to Seven of Nine.

I don't blame you. Early VOY can be hit or miss, and season 3 is when everything really begins to gel and Seven's introduction gives VOY a whole new lease on life with story potential that was proven. (Still can't believe Kate and Jeri disliked each other, but it doesn't show at all on screen - even more considering their double act is one of Trek's finest, of any era... IMHO, of course. Both are excellent actors, which is the reason why it doesn't seep through. )

 

[Lord Garth]

"Sacred Ground"

This was a weird one. Kes is on the planet of the week, takes a wrong turn, gets zapped, and then the inhabitants tell the Voyager crew that there's nothing they can do and they have to leave. The religious leaders and the governmental leaders are separate and the government doesn't want to impose on the will of the religious leaders. Janeway finds a precedent, the leaders are honored, and then Janeway goes on a spiritual journey to find Kes.

There are two ways this episode is unusual right off the bat: 1) Chakotay is always the more spiritual one, so you'd think he wouldn't be the skeptic. 2) Very unusual for '90s Trek, there's no explanation given for Janeway's quest and how she's able to save Kes. "It's part of the mystery." I'm guessing the writers intentionally wanted to do something different and deliberately went against what they'd normally do.

On the planet, when Janeway's going on her quest, the set design was great. It looked what I imagine an art museum would be like if it were built in a cave. So, points for thinking outside the box at least in that aspect.

The guest cast all filled their roles in way that served their purpose. The Magistrate, despite representing bureaucracy and red tape, wishes Janeway luck on finding a way to save Kes. The Guide is whimsical, earthy, and what I'd expect from someone guiding Janeway along on her ritual to find a way to save Kes. The three elders were all elderly people just waiting around. No complaints there.

And then Janeway goes through the ritual, it was all for nothing. Then she goes back, not knowing what she's looking for, and that's how she saves Kes. And with total faith. That's certainly as opposite of Janeway as you can get.

Janeway's determined and won't stop at any obstacle. Chakotay, Tuvok, and Neelix are all trying to tell her not to go through with anything dangerous, and Janeway persists. Janeway's persistence is one thing that's not the opposite of her character, and who she is to the core. So, the convictions are still the same, it's just that what she's willing to do is different.

Another highlight the Doctor standing up to Chakotay and Tuvok who want to pull Janeway out of the ritual after it looks like it's been too long, but the Doctor keeps insisting it's worth it. And I guess it was, since they got Kes back at the end.

Overall: It's thin, but I like the episode because of Janeway's determination, and the great set design. The rest of it is inoffensive, and I'm fine with it. I can't tell if having Janeway doing something totally unscientific was "let's do something different!" or if the writer took it as an "I dare you!" type of challenge. I know it's not the best episode, but I didn't have a problem with it. And there was enough bizarre stuff in there that the time passed right by. I give it a 7.

 

[Lord Garth]

At this point, I have to say I can understand why UPN would want to mix up the held over Season 2 episodes with some episodes that actually produced during Season 3.

"Basics, Part II" was solid. But, after that? "Flashback" was mediocre, which is disappointing to say. "False Profits" was terrible. And "Sacred Ground" was only mildly good. Other than "Basics, Part II", this batch of episodes isn't exactly the best way to start a new season.

In comparison: "The Chute", "The Swarm", and especially "Remember" were much stronger.

 

[DonIago]

That you'd give an episode you self-describe as mildly good a 7 is admittedly a bit confusing to me.

 

[Lord Garth]

That you'd give an episode you self-describe as mildly good a 7 is admittedly a bit confusing to me.

Bad = 1-3
Mediocre = 4-6
Good = 7-10

6 is the highest mediocre, 7 is the lowest good. Plus, I like "Sacred Ground" better than "Flashback".

It's not like a 7 is a knock-out anyway, and that's what I'd think the creators of the show would want to start the season with. Look at DS9 by comparison. They should be starting the season with their best stuff. The heavy hitters. There shouldn't anything less starting right out the gate with their opening stretch.

 

[Lord Garth]

Before my Season 2 Review, I want to look at all the episodes so far, including from the first season, and see how many of them are "90s TOS", "TNG Part II", and "Pure Voyager". The last category are not only episodes that directly deal with Voyager's specific characters or its specific predicament, but also episodes that I can't picture being done on TOS or TNG.

I think this will allow me to keep things in better perspective.

"Caretaker" --> Pure VOY
"Parallax" --> The tech plot could be TNG Part II, but the characters make it Pure VOY.
"Time & Again" --> With minimal changes, this could be '90s TOS.
"Phage" --> Pure VOY
"The Cloud" --> TNG Part II. You can even turn Neelix into a guest if it were the Enterprise-D.
"Eye of the Needle" --> Pure VOY
"Ex Post Facto" --> TNG Part II. Just have it be Riker instead of Paris.
"Emanations" --> '90s TOS
"Prime Factors" --> Pure VOY
"State of Flux" --> Pure VOY
"Heroes and Demons" --> TNG Part II
"Cathexis" --> TNG Part II
"Faces" --> Pure VOY
"Jetrel" --> The heavy focus on Neelix makes it Pure VOY.
"Learning Curve" --> Pure VOY
"The 37s" --> Pure VOY
"Initiations" --> Pure VOY
"Projections" --> Pure VOY. Despite Barclay being from TNG, this story could only be told with the Doctor.
"Elogium" --> Pure VOY
"Non Sequitur" --> Pure VOY
"Twisted" --> TNG Part II
"Parturition" --> Pure VOY, too much would have to be changed to make it TNG.
"Persistence of Vision" --> Pure VOY, since this would be way too weird as TNG.
"Tattoo" --> Pure VOY
"Cold Fire" --> Pure VOY
"Maneuvers" --> Pure VOY
"Resistance" --> '90s TOS
"Prototype" --> '90s TOS
"Alliances" --> Pure VOY
"Threshold" --> TNG Part II. I could see TNG Season 7 trying to pull something like this.
"Meld" --> Pure VOY. A Maquis crewmember who they can't sent away to prison.
"Dreadnought" --> '90s TOS
"Death Wish" --> Pure VOY. TNG wouldn't have handled the Q Continuum this way.
"Lifesigns" --> Pure VOY
"Investigations" --> Pure VOY
"Deadlock" --> Pure VOY. I can't picture TNG doing an episode like this, and it's too techy for TOS.
"Innocence" --> TNG Part II
"The Thaw" --> '90s TOS
"Tuvix" --> Pure VOY
"Resolutions" --> Pure VOY, despite the fact that I could see Spock in Tuvok's place.
"Basics, Part I" --> Pure VOY
"Basics, Part II" --> Pure VOY
"Flashback" --> Pure VOY. It's a TOS tribute in the most Voyager way possible.
"False Profits" --> TNG Part II. Just make them different Ferengi.
"Sacred Ground" --> Pure VOY. I can't picture this episode on TOS or TNG.

32 episodes (counting "Caretaker" twice) are "Pure VOY". They either couldn't be done, wouldn't be done, or would have to be heavily altered to be done on TOS or TNG.

8 episodes could've been TNG Part II. Very little would have to be changed.

6 episodes could've been '90s TOS. Once again, very little would have to be changed.

Looking at this, I have to say that I don't agree with those who say Voyager is "TNG Lite". It may seem that way sometimes, and it's easy to think that since it's made by the same people, but the characters and the setting make it different enough. Sure, VOY is on a ship just like TNG, but that similarity is mostly superficial. Voyager and the Enterprise-D are quite different. So are the characters.

 

[DonIago]

Bad = 1-3
Mediocre = 4-6
Good = 7-10

6 is the highest mediocre, 7 is the lowest good. Plus, I like "Sacred Ground" better than "Flashback".

It's not like a 7 is a knock-out anyway, and that's what I'd think the creators of the show would want to start the season with. Look at DS9 by comparison. They should be starting the season with their best stuff. The heavy hitters. There shouldn't anything less starting right out the gate with their opening stretch.

I think I kind of agree with your scale, but I might be a harsher critic. I'd put 4 at "below average", 5 at "average" and 6 at "above average", with 7-10 being more like, "good", "very good", "one of the best of the series" and "one of the best of the franchise". Which is to say, I'd be pretty stingy about 9 and 10.

So for me an episode that was mildly good would be more like a 6, or maybe a 4 or 5. "Mildly good" to me implies there's not a lot to like about it, whereas a 7 suggests to me that overall the episode is pretty good, just not quite great.

If that makes any sense.

Not saying you should change, just explaining why I struggled a bit with understanding your rationale. You do you!

 

[Farscape One]

I have to disagree about "PROJECTIONS" being pure VOY, because it is just their version of TNG's "Frame of Mind".

(Not a dig on that VOY episode because it is REALLY good, but it's very, very much like TNG's version... Braga even wrote both.)

 

[Lord Garth]

I have to disagree about "PROJECTIONS" being pure VOY, because it is just their version of TNG's "Frame of Mind".

(Not a dig on that VOY episode because it is REALLY good, but it's very, very much like TNG's version... Braga even wrote both.)

I can see what you mean. Luckily, even with that one change, the overall conclusion I came to about Voyager remains intact.

 

[Farscape One]

I can see what you mean. Luckily, even with that one change, the overall conclusion I came to about Voyager remains intact.

And I just realized there was another that I think would work as a TNG episode: "PERSISTENCE OF VISION".

The creepiness, the mood, the atmosphere... it goes alongside some of the best creepy/horror TNG episodes. (I've always felt that TNG did horror the best out of all the ST shows. I think part of it is because the Enterprise was always so bright and welcoming that when it got dark, it REALLY drove the horror vibe home.)

Also the fact that it was never even explained if the entire situation was real or not. It was left a complete mystery, which fits with other TNG episodes with a similar feel. (Like "The Royale" or "Time Squared".)