Rationalized New Phaser (Small review)

[trevanian]

Dude or dudette, I'm not the guy bringing up how space movies HAVE to appeal to kids.

I'm not the one arguing they have to. I'm saying appealing to kids does not automatically invalidate the film having worth to adults. There's no correlation between the two.

Just so we're clear, the following is the quote that generated all this response.

"A movie about spaceships that kids can't enjoy is pretty much a waste of time."


So maybe if you take my comments as reply to that, we can get somewhere. or not.

The idea of moving parts on the E (whether there was an implied hinge or not) seems to go totally against Jeffries (note I'm not saying it goes against science here; this is a TOS aesthetic, not a 'where is the ship built' thing.), since a hinge would have to be worked on from the outside, which he was adamantly against. It'd be interesting to see if this hinge-looking thing was something Datin added.

If visual interest is what they were after, I would suggest that they could hae created a very interesting warp nacelle cap effect that DIALS UP as the ship accelerates instead of making the caps vector. Failing that, they could actually go for something that was really compelling, like a spectral shift as the ship accelerates, or a warp field forming and distorting the exterior universe (all of these latter notions were on the boards for TMP when Abel had Dick Friesen designing effects for Richard Taylor.)

So making it into a jump jet seems a little toylike in comparison with other visual notions, to my eyes.

 

[Gepard]

Just so we're clear, the following is the quote that generated all this response.

"A movie about spaceships that kids can't enjoy is pretty much a waste of time."

That quote came from a guy who actually enjoyed 2001 as a kid. I'm not sure I can relate.

The idea of moving parts on the E (whether there was an implied hinge or not) seems to go totally against Jeffries (note I'm not saying it goes against science here; this is a TOS aesthetic, not a 'where is the ship built' thing.), since a hinge would have to be worked on from the outside, which he was adamantly against. It'd be interesting to see if this hinge-looking thing was something Datin added.

Why not put a motor in it?

Here's the images of the defector hinge. It's the model as it exists in the Smithsonian today. Considering the original purpose of the "deflector" was as a communications array, having some way to aim it makes sense to me.

If visual interest is what they were after, I would suggest that they could hae created a very interesting warp nacelle cap effect that DIALS UP as the ship accelerates instead of making the caps vector. Failing that, they could actually go for something that was really compelling, like a spectral shift as the ship accelerates, or a warp field forming and distorting the exterior universe (all of these latter notions were on the boards for TMP when Abel had Dick Friesen designing effects for Richard Taylor.)

So making it into a jump jet seems a little toylike in comparison with other visual notions, to my eyes.

Are you still operating under the "vectoring nacelles" nonsense that was put out months ago by a troll? Nothing anyone has heard confirms that. The only official information about the nacelles moving is a cryptic comment by one of the VFX guys about the nacelles having "fins" that move apart as the ship goes to warp. I'd assume he was talking about the dorsal intercoolers, but it's impossible to be sure without more information. At any rate, it doesn't seem out of place with Sternbach's moving warp pylons on Voyager, and I don't recall anyone throwing a fit about those.

 

[trevanian]

Good pics. It DOES evoke the Discovery dish, you're right. Was it ALWAYS that way, or did the guys in the early 90s do this?

I'm figuring the vector nacelles is the thing the fx guy mentioned, since it fits the visual of how the nacelle caps look. If it is intercoolers, that might be a bit better.

 

[Gepard]

Was it ALWAYS that way, or did the guys in the early 90s do this?

I have no idea. In fact, the issue of there being a hinge at all never came up as far as I knew until the info on the new Enterprise prompted some folks on the RPF to dig through their reference photos (which is where this collection of images came from).

 

[Kaziarl]

Hey, yeah! Also, what prevents it from vaporizing the top of the stove too? For that matter, why does the usual phaser effect stop at someone's boots and not keep eating through the ground every time some poor soul is vaped? Oh well, I guess it is just a show after all. I'm disappointed.

--Alex

Oh, and hey, how about this one. Lets completely over-analyze someone's post and totally trash it. But hey, it is just a forum after all.

Now, all I was trying to say is that if it's going to vaporize your boots, cloths, hair, assorted jewelry (if any) then I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the contents of a pot would not be untouched. Although when I first saw it, I did think it was neat how it perfectly held it's shape after the pot was gone.

Sorry, buddy. No need to get defensive. I was trying to run with your joke, not tear you apart for it. I hope we can all still be friends after this. I mean, I'd hate to run into you in the hallway and things be all "weird" ya' know? Friends? *extends hand*

--Alex

It's cool, most of that I've had conversations with here can tell you I can be a sarcastic prick. I just figured I'd return sarcasm with sarcasm.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

That quote came from a guy who actually enjoyed 2001 as a kid. I'm not sure I can relate.

Well, why wouldn't a kid like it? It's full of cool things. And at least in those days we were used to making do for sf tv and movies with stuff that was low budget, silly and often logically confused or simpleminded - everything from Irwin Allen's tv shows to "Invasion Of The Saucer Men." And "2001" was easily relatable directly to the space program at the time, which a lot of us also thought was cool.

A movie about spaceships that kids can't enjoy is pretty much a waste of time. And money. Unfortunately there's an immature and possessive "adult" mentality associated with sf that's exemplified by this dork I shared an elevator with at a Trek convention in Virginia back in the late 80s. He'd evidently bought his son a Worf action figure (the kid looked to be between six and eight) and the kid had gotten Michael Dorn to sign it. They come on to the elevator and this guy has the action figure in his grubby hand and will not give it back to his kid, will not let the kid open it and play with it because as a result of the autograph "it's now valuable."

 

[Praetor]

Ick. Thank God my parents let me open my toys. Some, I chose to not open thinking they might someday be valuable but that was maybe like, IDK, four? And, what's more, they didn't say 'you can't open this' or 'you have to open this' they said 'do what you want.'

 

[Gepard]

And "2001" was easily relatable directly to the space program at the time, which a lot of us also thought was cool.

Ah, well see I'm not anywhere near as old as you are. The space program as it was in the '60s and '70s was a relic by the time I was paying attention to such things. My memories of seeing 2001 as a kid are of being very excited to hear it was on TV, having my mom race me home that evening to see it...and that scene with Bowman in the hotel room at the end. I can only assume the blank spot in my memory where sitting through the rest of the film should be is because it bored me out of my skull.

Still does, truthfully.

They come on to the elevator and this guy has the action figure in his grubby hand and will not give it back to his kid, will not let the kid open it and play with it because as a result of the autograph "it's now valuable."

I think that person posts on this board.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Was it ALWAYS that way, or did the guys in the early 90s do this?

I have no idea. In fact, the issue of there being a hinge at all never came up as far as I knew until the info on the new Enterprise prompted some folks on the RPF to dig through their reference photos (which is where this collection of images came from).

The first time I ever saw the "root hinge" was back in the mid-80s... I think it may have been '85 (I graduated from H.S. in '84, so that year is still reasonably memorable!)

It was around that time that I started really becoming aware that the information which had been out there for so long re: ST design wasn't really all that accurate. I suspect that the increased study came from the fact that (1) the Smithsonian had the ship and had it displayed (I think the first really good pics of the model came from the "Star Trek Poster Book" article on the Smithsonian's acquisition of the model) and the availability of videotape episodes... both of which let us see that "Hey, waitaminute... FJ's prints weren't correct!"

I believe that the "poster book" article (and if not that, something else which came out at roughly the same time) showed a photo of the spike for the dish... with the dish absent. And the "pin joint" was clearly visible.

Now... whether that was supposed to represent a "hinge" or if it was just there to let the modelmaker remove and replace the dish (say, for shipping) is debatable.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Ick. Thank God my parents let me open my toys. Some, I chose to not open thinking they might someday be valuable but that was maybe like, IDK, four? And, what's more, they didn't say 'you can't open this' or 'you have to open this' they said 'do what you want.'

Yep. You're talking about what you chose to do with your own toys as a child. I don't know how this kid could have grown up with any respect for a parent who was that completely childish and self-involved. Children should not have to compete with adults for those things which properly belong to childhood.

 

[ST-One]

Ick. Thank God my parents let me open my toys. Some, I chose to not open thinking they might someday be valuable but that was maybe like, IDK, four? And, what's more, they didn't say 'you can't open this' or 'you have to open this' they said 'do what you want.'

This guy would probably kill me; I take all my PVC-figures out of their boxes

 

[ST-One]

Ah, well see I'm not anywhere near as old as you are. The space program as it was in the '60s and '70s was a relic by the time I was paying attention to such things. My memories of seeing 2001 as a kid are of being very excited to hear it was on TV, having my mom race me home that evening to see it...and that scene with Bowman in the hotel room at the end. I can only assume the blank spot in my memory where sitting through the rest of the film should be is because it bored me out of my skull.

Still does, truthfully.

Ah, a kindred spirit.

 

[yobresal]

Sorry to be a thread necro but i didn't want to clutter the forum up with another thread so I decided to post this here. If anyone feels I should start my own thread I will.
Here is my version of the Phaser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6LPLyQ0gY

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Dayum that's cool.

Well, OT it's pretty clear that the poor design of the phasers sank this movie. It didn't make any money did it?

 

[yobresal]

Thanks. Here is another of the Phaser actually burning things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSZLHRDxXzQ&NR=1

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

When I was in college - a portable laser, at that time, was a box about a foot long and the girth of a two-by-four, with an electric cord running back to the wall - a guy I knew built a phaser and installed an electronic flash in it. He scared the crap out of a couple of us by pointing the thing at us and - BLAM! - we didn't know what the hell it was for a moment.

 

[flightmech73]

Sorry to say it Sojourner, but it DOES look that way in the movie.
My best guess is, like in Star Wars with the crystals of each light saber, the red and blue crystal tips would focus the phaser power in two different ways, the blue being the lesser refined/less powerful of the two.
If you have the blue tip active, and have the phaser on the highest power setting, it would only be about a fourth of the power the red tip. Also, the red tip looks like it has a slight grip to the "non-business" end, perhaps to focus the beam.
Blue would be enough to kill most humanoids, while red could at it's highest setting could breach a wall.

Ok, so, here's my tweak on the JJPhaser. I tried to bring in some elements of the TOS, STIV and STVI phasers. Gave it an actual trigger, not a button (would feel like the trigger on the XBox 360 controller) and a REAL handle, not a stick, with some grip to it.. I also made the Delta shield more obvious and gave it a crosshair on top.

First up, comparison of the two:

Next, loading the weapon:

Just had a thought of hiding the secondary tip, don't really like it too much but you guys may. The "heat sink" part slides forward, spins around, then pops back in:

I'll make some shots of the inner workings tomorrow.
P.S. Mods, thanks for moving the thread.

Thats 2 funny. I did a photoshop of this awile ago. ITs in the STXI thread somewhere. Here it is again. I like it so much better than having a spinning emitter. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.I realy like the trigger you have alot better too.

 

[Tom Riley]

Thats 2 funny. I did a photoshop of this awile ago. ITs in the STXI thread somewhere. Here it is again. I like it so much better than having a spinning emitter. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.I realy like the trigger you have alot better too.

I like it better this way.

 

[Vance]

I think I just got one of these things in Fallout 3: Mothership Zeta...

 

[Gepard]

Ah, a kindred spirit.

Perhaps motivated by own faulty memory, and a conviction that a widely-praised film must be enjoyable on some level, I tried re-watching 2001 last week. I turned it off about the time Poole and company were flying out to TMA-1.