Rapelay virtual rape game banned by Amazon

[Captain X]

Yes, I can. This came up earlier.

Not from what I've seen of your posts so far.

What "predisposes" people to rape? Does it happen at birth then? Something inevitable? No.

I like how you dismiss something out of hand that is still being debated amongst scientists, you know, the who nature vs. nurture thing.

We aren't talking about science fiction. We're talking about rape- something there is science, studies and evidence about.

Of which everything you showed me had an obvious bias. But you still provided me with a good example of how close-minded you are, because to you only what you think is true and valid.

Of which I am not.

Everything you've said indicates otherwise.

I'm not a fan/proponant or radical (or "resenter") feminists.

Except when you can quote mine them to try to make your point.

But in this case, her stance on women's rights do not change the empirical data from tests. And the book is a compilation of, as you can see, the work of many many people. Do you think all those researchers should be dismissed just because hundreds of tests, experiments and interviews do not support your view?

I looked it over, and from what I can see there is a lot of obvious bias.

You have not given me tests, experiments and data- just the that you don't believe that people feeding on and enjoying and planning rape could lead to the read thing. You can have that if you want, but I do not share it.

Most everything I've found so far deals with exposure to pornography (in general) leading to rape, of which it's pretty obvious that it doesn't. But considering that people like Dolcett can fantasize about and make art depicting women being literally treated like food and the fact he and others like him have a large following and there's been nothing in the news about hordes of cannibals hunting down and spit-roasting women (the other white meat, apparently), I think it's safe to say that people fantasizing about something doesn't automatically lead to them trying to actually make those fantasies real. As a less extreme example, there are a lot of people into BDSM, and as far as I can tell it hasn't lead many of them to rape anyone, and it could be argued that the nature of BDSM lends itself to that kind of fantasy.

No, I said its possible, that it has happened, and it data- real tests, show it can make it more likely.

Holy contradiction Batman! Sorry, you can't have it both ways - either fantasy always leads to people doing it for real or it doesn't.

And lets stop the childish "you can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy" crap

There's nothing childish about the truth. Everything you have said indicates that this is indeed the case with you, since everything you discuss has to do with rape in reality rather than as a sexual fantasy, fantasy as a rule having very little to do with reality.

- because I can, but fortunately I can also evaluate science, research, and data, and also as a woman, and a human, the idea of sexual torture is troubling.

And a good example of what I was talking about above.

If you want to think I'm a rapist... well, more objective people have my thoughts already.

I like the feeble way you try to twist things I've said, it's kind of cute actually. What I said was that you have more in common with an actual rapist than someone who just fantasizes about rape because you have difficulty distinguishing the difference between the two. For you, fantasizing about something always leads to really doing it.

 

[Amaris]

Why do furries get off on the idea of doing it with anthropomorphic animals?

Well thats more of an appearance thing, ordinary sex, a consenting sentient partner, just happens to look out of the ordinary.

Such anthropomorphic characters by their definition have Human qualities such as intelligence and the upright/clothed appearance. They are fictional "people", the sexual aspect of the fantasy is different for every furry.

The same variety of fetishes exist even for them, some will fantasise about rather ordinary sex, others may fantasise about much more, well extreme situations. The object of this just happens to look different, the way some people prefer redheads while others prefer brunettes.

BTW thanks for bringing that up and distracting me.

Bingo. When you get right down to it, they're just people...but with fur and possibly a tail.

J.

 

[Kemaiku]

Why do furries get off on the idea of doing it with anthropomorphic animals?

Well thats more of an appearance thing, ordinary sex, a consenting sentient partner, just happens to look out of the ordinary.

Such anthropomorphic characters by their definition have Human qualities such as intelligence and the upright/clothed appearance. They are fictional "people", the sexual aspect of the fantasy is different for every furry.

The same variety of fetishes exist even for them, some will fantasise about rather ordinary sex, others may fantasise about much more, well extreme situations. The object of this just happens to look different, the way some people prefer redheads while others prefer brunettes.

BTW thanks for bringing that up and distracting me.

Bingo. When you get right down to it, they're just people...but with fur and possibly a tail.

J.

Yup. Non-furries see the animal, with Human qualities. Furries see a person, with animal features.

I mean I am somewhat of a furry myself but real animals? even to me thats disgusting.

 

[Amaris]

Well thats more of an appearance thing, ordinary sex, a consenting sentient partner, just happens to look out of the ordinary.

Such anthropomorphic characters by their definition have Human qualities such as intelligence and the upright/clothed appearance. They are fictional "people", the sexual aspect of the fantasy is different for every furry.

The same variety of fetishes exist even for them, some will fantasise about rather ordinary sex, others may fantasise about much more, well extreme situations. The object of this just happens to look different, the way some people prefer redheads while others prefer brunettes.

BTW thanks for bringing that up and distracting me.

Bingo. When you get right down to it, they're just people...but with fur and possibly a tail.

J.

Yup. Non-furries see the animal, with Human qualities. Furries see a person, with animal features.

I mean I am somewhat of a furry myself but real animals? even to me thats disgusting.

Yeah, my feelings as well.

J.

 

[Marie1]

Yes, I can. This came up earlier.

Not from what I've seen of your posts so far.

Because you disagree with my view. How I feel about this subject is simply different from your belief.

What "predisposes" people to rape? Does it happen at birth then? Something inevitable? No.

I like how you dismiss something out of hand that is still being debated amongst scientists, you know, the who nature vs. nurture thing.

So, you think that nurturing is completely irrelevant? I doubt you'll find a single scientist who doesn't think that "nurture" is important to human development, and if so, they're horribly out dated, as its been proven.

Of which everything you showed me had an obvious bias. But you still provided me with a good example of how close-minded you are, because to you only what you think is true and valid.

I do- I find rape repulsive. I'd prefer it to not be viewed as entertainment.

I think it's safe to say that people fantasizing about something doesn't automatically lead to them trying to actually make those fantasies real.

I agree. But it has- so when people get really excited at being able to virtually rape a woman and her daughters, and get really upset when a vender decides not to carry it, I find it a bit scary.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways - either fantasy always leads to people doing it for real or it doesn't.

Umm.... It doesn't work that way. Its not always going to. Thats nonsense. But once is one time too many.

There's nothing childish about the truth. Everything you have said indicates that this is indeed the case with you, since everything you discuss has to do with rape in reality rather than as a sexual fantasy, fantasy as a rule having very little to do with reality.

Not just "sexual fantasy"- that could be a million things. The thing I'm worried about is rape fantasy being taken to the level of VG for entertainment, where rape is planned, where a child could get a hold of it, etc.

I like the feeble way you try to twist things I've said, it's kind of cute actually. What I said was that you have more in common with an actual rapist than someone who just fantasizes about rape because you have difficulty distinguishing the difference between the two. For you, fantasizing about something always leads to really doing it.

I am very cute. And you're twisting what I'm saying. But that aside, I never, ever said "fantasizing about something always leads to really doing it" -but I do hate it when people put words in my mouth. I said there is evidence that it has, and that I have a concern about people who, we're not talking about a dream during deep sleep, but going and buying a game whose objective it is to rape multiple people- and thinking its healthy and that nothing bad could ever come of it.

I'm sorry if you disagree with me, you don't have to agree, of course. But I'm just not sorry Amazon won't carry it, because I find such a VG to be sick. I find rapists to be sick. So I am a bit nervous about people willingly pressing buttons causing horrible things to happen to a virtual woman and finding it enjoyable... even if it isn't real... why is it fun? I cannot relate to that.

 

[Data Holmes]

If you want to think I'm a rapist... well, more objective people have my thoughts already.

I like the feeble way you try to twist things I've said, it's kind of cute actually. What I said was that you have more in common with an actual rapist than someone who just fantasizes about rape because you have difficulty distinguishing the difference between the two. For you, fantasizing about something always leads to really doing it.

Or fantasizing is the same as really doing, which is along the same lines but different as well...

I think that the attacking of fantasies which land into the "taboo" subject matter is a clear example of sexual repression which causes far more problems than it prevents. By twisting thoughts into a right or wrong aspect of morality you abandon the lines between reality and fantasy with either the instance that if you think it you must do it or that thinking it is the same as doing it. This pressure makes people think they are sick, and slowly drives them into a self hating depressive state which explodes into a psychotic break where they lash out in violent ways.


And it's interesting you mention the BDSM culture as there have been some instances where people who went on to actually attack people and act out the "images they see in porn" were kicked out of that community because they saw that they were not right, and suggested that they get help...

Think back to all the really horrible, sadistic, killer types. When they get busted, everyone says "they were so normal" and "They were the perfect family" and "I never would have thought that he/she/they could do something like that"...

It's because these people have no emotion, they have no empathy, they have no fantasy.

These are the truly sick people and no amount of fictionalized porn will change what they do.

 

[Marie1]

I'm not saying all fantasy should be repressed... or imagination. It'd be funny for that to come from an ST fan.

But not all sadistic killers seem normal, some you can see a mile away. I don't think all killers don't have fantasy- some do, and it gets out of control. Some do, and maybe that as an outlet is why they seemed normal to their neighbours. They must have some emotion- they must get something, some enjoyment and satisfaction from crime, and for serial criminals... you'd think it'd be... like an addiction.

But there are a zillion sick rapists and murderers who have all responded to their environments in an equal number of different ways. People were committing horrific crimes before tv, the 'net, etc etc. Jack the Ripper obviously didn't play the banned VG game...

But I find the enjoyment of rape in a VG so creepy!

 

[Data Holmes]

I'm not saying all fantasy should be repressed... or imagination. It'd be funny for that to come from an ST fan.

But not all sadistic killers seem normal, some you can see a mile away. I don't think all killers don't have fantasy- some do, and it gets out of control. Some do, and maybe that as an outlet is why they seemed normal to their neighbours. They must have some emotion- they must get something, some enjoyment and satisfaction from crime, and for serial criminals... you'd think it'd be... like an addiction.

But there are a zillion sick rapists and murderers who have all responded to their environments in an equal number of different ways. People were committing horrific crimes before tv, the 'net, etc etc. Jack the Ripper obviously didn't play the banned VG game...

Indeed.

But I find the enjoyment of rape in a VG so creepy!

But that doesn't mean that it should be banned, or that anyone should actively extort business into banning said item. Because to do so is the gateway to thought crime.

 

[Captain X]

Because you disagree with my view. How I feel about this subject is simply different from your belief.

No, actually I get that impression from the things you've said.

So, you think that nurturing is completely irrelevant? I doubt you'll find a single scientist who doesn't think that "nurture" is important to human development, and if so, they're horribly out dated, as its been proven.

Video games do not qualify as "nurturing", and there is still much debate as to how much is nature and how much is nurture in child development. As to the point, basically what I'm saying is that playing a game won't warp you, but an already warped person would probably find that game interesting. basically the ivnerse of the relationship you suggest.

I do- I find rape repulsive. I'd prefer it to not be viewed as entertainment.

Fortunately not everyone thinks the same way, even if thought police think that they should.

I agree. But it has- so when people get really excited at being able to virtually rape a woman and her daughters, and get really upset when a vender decides not to carry it, I find it a bit scary.

Smooth, but I'm not upset by not being able to play a rape game, since I wouldn't anyway, I'm upset by censorship caused by a few whining whiners who can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

Umm.... It doesn't work that way. Its not always going to. Thats nonsense.

That's the gist of what you've been saying.

Not just "sexual fantasy"- that could be a million things. The thing I'm worried about is rape fantasy being taken to the level of VG for entertainment, where rape is planned, where a child could get a hold of it, etc.

Games have these things called ratings, and even if they don't have them it's usually pretty obvious what they're about. Nice try dragging out the kids as a shield again though. I already knew that you had specific thoughts you think should be forbidden though.

And you're twisting what I'm saying.

No, actually I'm not - I don't have to twist anything.

But that aside, I never, ever said "fantasizing about something always leads to really doing it" -but I do hate it when people put words in my mouth.

Except that's exactly what you've been saying - you've been entirely focused on this idea that someone is going to play this game and then go out and rape someone, or that people who have a fantasy are evil people who are going to go out and rape people, too.

I said there is evidence that it has,

From obviously biased sources.

and that I have a concern about people who, we're not talking about a dream during deep sleep, but going and buying a game whose objective it is to rape multiple people- and thinking its healthy and that nothing bad could ever come of it.

Things like this are subjective, and to be frank it isn't your place to have any concern over other people's fantasies or the games that they play, so long as no one is harmed.

So I am a bit nervous about people willingly pressing buttons causing horrible things to happen to a virtual woman and finding it enjoyable... even if it isn't real... why is it fun?

Why is GTA fun? Why is playing first-person shooters fun? Why is watching movies fun?

 

[Marie1]

But I find the enjoyment of rape in a VG so creepy!

But that doesn't mean that it should be banned, or that anyone should actively extort business into banning said item. Because to do so is the gateway to thought crime.

Thats something I was wondering- how does that sort of ban work? Its just Amazon, but it must go beyond them refusing to sell it... I guess they've removed any page about it (usually if something exists, but they don't have it, they still have the information up and "unavailable" or something) and also won't let people sell their used items?

But if there is a market for this, doesn't it just mean that the myriad of other places it can be purchased will get the business instead?

But I do get your the fear of thought crime, and the danger, even if I'm not really opposed to Amazon not being comfortable selling a rape game.

Even if it doesn't turn up at Amazon, or VG rental places that are public... maybe it will turn up in porn/specialty places? I dunno...

 

[Gertch]

But I find the enjoyment of rape in a VG so creepy!

That's because it is.

There are people who will say there is no right or wrong. They are trying to sell you something - namely a permissive and course society. But there are things that are right or wrong.

Rape, real or virtual is wrong.

 

[Captain X]

Thats something I was wondering- how does that sort of ban work? Its just Amazon, but it must go beyond them refusing to sell it... I guess they've removed any page about it (usually if something exists, but they don't have it, they still have the information up and "unavailable" or something) and also won't let people sell their used items?

The lack of availability is how it's a form of censorship.

But if there is a market for this, doesn't it just mean that the myriad of other places it can be purchased will get the business instead?

Even if it doesn't turn up at Amazon, or VG rental places that are public... maybe it will turn up in porn/specialty places? I dunno...

Uh, Amazon isn't really public per say. yeah, there are records of transactions, but unless you're a hacker or a law enforcement agency with a warrant, those records are kept private. Since even vanilla sex is so taboo in this country, people who are into that kind of thing tend to avoid public venues, which is why they turn to the internet. And the thing about buying things online is that you're never sure who you're giving your credit card number to, but with Amazon there's at least some sense of security about not getting screwed over.

 

[Captain X]

That's because it is.

There are people who will say there is no right or wrong. They are trying to sell you something - namely a permissive and course society. But there are things that are right or wrong.

Rape, real or virtual is wrong.

Real? Yes. Virtual? Where's the victim? But then I've already been in a discussion about morality and how often it's usually tied to religion.

 

[JuanBolio]

Rape, real or virtual is wrong.

Please explain how and why virtual rape in inherently wrong.

 

[kimc]

As for the fantasy aspect, anyone realize that there are studies which show that women have rape fantasies (both as aggressor and as submissive) almost 2 to 1 over men.

I'd love to see how that study was conducted becaue it doesn't make sense to me as a woman. Yes, we women do discuss these things with each other so those results shouldn't be such a shocker.

It's typically more "ravishment" than "rape". The "rapist" in their fantasies usually isn't some ugly old fat bloke. Usually it's some big, strong, good looking fantasy guy they would have sex with anyway given the chance. In their fantasy, they put up a fight to begin with, but then give in.

It's as far removed from reality as any other fantasy. They'll just get their boyfriends to put on a balaclava and pretend to be an "evil burglar" breaking in to the house to find the "defenceless" housewife home.

It's not as cut and dried as all that. There's a seductive quality to the idea that the man you love and trust enough to play that fantasy with would want you so badly that he would be willing to break the law and refuse to take no for an answer just to get to you. What you're forgetting though is that a "yes" is already given at the start of the "game" and usually there'a "safety word" that can be used at any time you want the action to stop because you're not feeling comfortable.

Not that I'm an expert in these things...

In reality any man who broke into my house thinking he's going to have some fun without my consent is going to get his dick bitten off. End of story.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

Cool. I want one.

Seriously, though, I've heard of far worse hentai games than this.

That kinda of stuff should be banned outright, if not it should remain a Japan only phenomenon. The Japanese are a weird punch I heard about a trend in the 90s where they were selling used school girl panties in vending machines and salarymen could buy them and then go home and fantasize.

I don't blame them outright for all this weird stuff, I mean back before we tamed them their society which was kind of some modern fascist warmachine machine fueled by a samurai culture. Pearl sucked but then we fixed them and modernized their culture by dropping two atomic bombs on their heads. The samurai were never heroic or noble, a big percentage were perverts
all that really happened after WW2 was the machinegun and sword got replaced with the fax machine and briefcase.

I'm not saying we should tell Japanese how to live their lives again, but I am saying if we can't put a total ban on this really perverted stuff then banned it should remain a Japan only phenomenon.

 

[JuanBolio]

That kinda of stuff should be banned outright

back before we tamed them

modernized their culture by dropping two atomic bombs on their heads.

if we can't put a total ban on this really perverted stuff then banned it should remain a Japan only phenomenon.

I disagree with all quoted points most emphatically. Freedom is for everyone, not just for those who's tastes you find morally acceptable. If rape fantasies are your thing, that's fine. No one has any right to tell you you can't play a game centered around such.

You are wrong to think otherwise.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Sorry for the hit-and-run (other posters have covered what I would otherwise say), but you've just said freedom of opinion and taste is for everyone and then said he can't hold HIS opinion. Hypocritical, that.

 

[JuanBolio]

Sorry for the hit-and-run (other posters have covered what I would otherwise say), but you've just said freedom of opinion and taste is for everyone and then said he can't hold HIS opinion. Hypocritical, that.

I was kinda making my point with that...

Anyway, I never said his opinion should be banned by law, as he wants games like this to be. I said it was wrong. Its perfectly legal to say 2+2=5, but its still wrong.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Let's not get too hot under the collar, folks. Remember to debate the Topic, don't attack your fellow Posters. Thank you.