Ranks of characters

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Little_kingsfan, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Commander seems more likely to me. IMO "Staff Corps" Captains are more likely to be stationed on major starbases and the planet-side hospitals than starships.

    Although Kaz is listed as a full Commander on Memory Beta, and therefore there's a certain logic to Sharak being one as well, I agree with you that LT or LCDR would make more sense (especially as the later is the rank of the canonical CMO).

    Not sure about Kirsten's PoV on the matter, but as of PIC canon is clear that during that period the rank of "one star flag officer" is a Commodore (the only exception to this may have been during the Fed-Cardassian War era), so he -- like Riker as "admiral at large" and later "sector commander" would have to hold at least two-pip RADM rank.
     
  2. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Over the last few days, I've started rereading the Department of Temporal Investigations books (and will likely follow them up with Dayton Ward's 20th-21st century trilogy); having just finished "Watching the Clock", I had a few questions not necessarily about rank(s), but positions & postings:
    • DTI Asst. Dir. Farimah Hamidi of the Aldebaran branch was set to retire or transfer in 2373; with Dulmur ultimately turning down the job, who got it instead?
    • According to my notes, the San Francisco branch of the DTI was headed by Asst. Dir. Gelim Kreinns, taking over for now-Director Andos in February 2369 (who in turn took over for retiring Director Sornek); Asst. Dir. Kreinns was still in San Francisco when Voyager returned home in 2378, but by 2381, the branch was now led by Asst. Dir. Sonaj (who, also according to my notes, was promoted after approximately 40 years as an agent)...so does that mean Kreinns retired, or did he get transferred to another post?
    • Jena Noi (and Daniels) are from the mid-31st century, circa 3050, correct? But from what year is Cmdr. Ducane from (and how much further uptime is he from his encounter with Voyager - or is it the same amount of time between the episode and the novel?)?
    • Over on the Starfleet side, my notes tell me that Claudia Alisov emerged from 2278 aboard the Bozeman as Chief Engineer with the rank of Lieutenant Commander, was promoted to full Commander and now the First Officer in July 2372 (although could've potentially been promoted in the aftermath of some of the Bozeman crew's mutiny - is that when she was promoted?), and then Captain of the Everett by 2381 (at the same time Capt. Bateson left the Bozeman for the Atlas, although no specific date or even year was given for the transfers). Similarly, Heather Peterson graduated from Starfleet Academy in late May/early June 2372 and was promptly assigned to the Bozeman as Science Officer with the rank of Ensign before working her way up the ranks until 2381, when she served as Capt. Alisov's Chief Science Officer as a Commander. Is this accurate?
    • How far into her college years was Teresa Garcia when she disappeared in 2366/was sent 15 years into the future - and did/does she ever go back to school to finish (although obviously continuing her education at the Regulus III Science Academy is out)? I believe I noted that she was doing graduate work in archaeology (implying that she earned her bachelor's or at least associate's degree in the field), but was she just starting her studies (maybe a semester or two complete since she disappeared in January), almost done, or somewhere in the middle?
    On a tangential note, I really appreciate @Christopher telling us how long all of the main characters have been with the Department (okay, except for Lucsly, who's clearly been there since at least TNG Season 1!): Dulmur joined in 2364 (applied for the DTI Academy)/2365 (actually became an agent), Ranjea in 2373, Garcia in 2381, Counselor Raymond in 2368, Chall from 2363-2373, George Faunt from 2369-2381, even Stewart Peart in 2376; heck, Andos had an entire career breakdown starting with the agency with its inception in 2270, becoming an agent in 2309, Asssistant Director in the early 2340s, and finally Director in 2369 - in fact, the only one I seem to be missing is Agent Yol, who was only established that he was on active duty during the events of "Parallels" (c. 2370) and he's still active as of "Watching the Clock" (although I believe it was also mentioned that his symbiont may've been with the Department for years or decades before, possibly in a different host).

    Anyways, I think that's all for now. I'll check back in after completing "Forgotten History".
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I have no idea. I didn't work out the bits that weren't relevant to the story. Some, maybe, but not all of them.

    Voyager: "Relativity" said that the title ship was from "almost 500 years" in Voyager's future (from 2376), so I would estimate that the future events of that episode were circa 2870. I never figured out how much later WTC was in Ducane's timeline, but at a guess, maybe less than a decade?

    As for the other questions, again, I have no answers.
     
  4. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    New book, new question(s) and inference(s):
    • For Admiral Cartwright of Starfleet Security, the way I read it was that he and Kirk were of equal rank (both two-star Rear Admirals) but their differing assignments meant that they weren't in the same chain of command. I also don't know if he was serving as Head/Chief of Starfleet Security or if he was just a senior/flag officer with the division.
    • For Admiral Chandra, I assume that due to the nature of basing Starfleet Academy off the real-life US Naval Academy (for the purposes of this particular story) that Chandra is a three-star Vice Admiral and Rear Admiral Kirk's immediate superior.
    • As for (Vice?) Admiral S'rrel, what does he do for Starfleet at this point, or is he already the Caitian Representative to the Federation Council that he is in 2286/The Voyage Home?
    I plan on adding more later, but those were the ones off the top of my head.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I intended him to be the head. And I didn't think about it, but I'd assume he's above Kirk in rank, or at least in senority, since he replaces Harry Morrow in the top spot in about six years.

    Dunno about ranks, but yes, he's the superintendent, while Kirk is the commandant of cadets, so that puts Kirk under Chandra's command.

    It never came up. But I'm skeptical of the notion that the Starfleet personnel in TVH were actual council members, despite what Memory Beta says. There were a bunch of them who were mostly in the front rows, separated from the civilians in the bleachers, suggesting that they were observers or witnesses. If they'd been council members, they probably would've been peppered more randomly among the other councillors.
     
  6. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    FWIW, the two Academy "commanders" that we've seen on screen (Superintendent Brand and the unnamed Bolian conspirator referred to as Commandant) were both two-pip Rear Admirals. In the US forces, Brand would be senior of the two and hold Chandra's billet.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, Chandra is the superintendent, as I said. The superintendent is in charge of the Academy, while the commandant is the equivalent of a dean of students at a civilian university.
     
  8. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd agree with that; it doesn't make sense for active duty military/Starfleet personnel to serve on the Council itself. Maybe he's the equivalent to the Chief of Legislative Affairs; I do believe there's a position that was established once upon a time along the lines of "Starfleet Liaison to the Federation Council".

    On screen, there've been three Chiefs/Directors of Starfleet Security as far as I can tell: one's a three-star Vice Admiral, one's a one-star Commodore, and one's a Captain (albeit in an acting capacity rather than as a permanent job); in Star Trek: The Fall, there was a two-star Rear Admiral who was said to be (a) Deputy Chief of Starfleet Security (which is what I initially thought Cartwright was in this book), but it also makes sense that he's the boss. I just like the little details if I can get them.
     
  9. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    I admit that this is headcanon, but it makes sense to me to explain the explain the difference:

    Vice Admiral Henry was Chief of Starfleet Security for the entire fleet. So essentially the Chief of Police/Commissioner.
    Captain Sisko and Commodore Oh were Chief of Starfleet Security on Earth. So essentially equivalent of a Borough or District Chief.

    County sheriff or state police commander versus small town police chief also works if you think that Sisko and Oh didn't have a direct boss within Starfleet Security.
     
  10. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Back again with another question regarding a (presumably) high-ranking doctor without a rank that I can find: Dr. Rebecca Emmanuelli from @KRAD's Articles of the Federation. She's described as a 70-year-old physician, a veteran of the Tzenkethi War (during which she spent four years as a POW), and by 2380, the Chief Medical Officer of Starbase 1 (until her resignation at the end of the novel). Personally, I see her holding the rank of O-6 Captain, although it's also conceivable that she's an O-5 Commander. Also, if he's the Head of Starfleet Medical, I believe Chirugeon Ghee P'Trell is a flag officer (although it's also very possible that he's an O-5 Commander or O-6 Captain considering he (presumably) took over for Cmdr. (Dr.) Crusher once she returned to the Enterprise). P.S.: Is the Head of Starfleet Medical and the Surgeon General of the Federation Starfleet the same officer, or are they two separate posts (i.e. Head of Starfleet Medical is the headquarters commander or hospital administrator while S.G. Starfleet is the ranking medical advisor to the Commander-in-Chief of the Federation Starfleet and civilian Federation officials alongside or subordinate to the Surgeon General of the U.F.P.)?

    Since we're just days away from the release of Moments Asunder, I'm sure I'll have more questions by the end of the week...and thanks in advance for the answers!
     
  11. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    I'm assuming Emmanuelli was a captain in Articles. P'Trell probably a captain or admiral. And yes, they're separate positions -- head of Starfleet Medical runs Starfleet Medical, while the Surgeon General works with the government.
     
  12. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    That's always been my assumption, particularly as RW practice assigns typically assigns senior/field officer ranks (up to a maximum of O-7) as directors of hospitals (like Starfleet Medical Center San Francisco), whereas Surgeon Generals are typically O-9 or O-10.
     
  13. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the confirmation, @KRAD!
     
  14. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Starting with an easy one for Star Trek: Coda that's not even a proper spoiler (other than the fact that they appear in this book) and may end up being answered in the next book or two: c. 2387, are Tom Paris and B'Elanna Torres full Commanders (O-5) or are they still Lieutenant Commanders (O-4)? (Reminder: this entire thread was started because both ranks are generally referred to as "Commander", but without the benefit of seeing them on screen, it's difficult to ascertain if their third pip is gold or hollow.)
     
  15. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Based on their status quo as of To Lose the Earth I think it's unlikely that B'Elanna would have been promoted unless she's transferred to Headquarters or maybe a leadership position within the SCE. Tom is more likely as Commander is a common rank for XO on the bigger ships.
     
  16. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Does anybody have an idea (or better yet, an actual answer) what rank Dr. Tropp of the Enterprise-E holds? As the Assistant CMO of the ship, I wanna say he's either an O-3 Lieutenant (with more seniority than probably every other Lieutenant on board) or O-4 Lieutenant Commander.

    Similarly, for Tactical/Security Officer Abby Balidemaj, I have a reference of her being an O-2 Lieutenant, junior grade in Cold Equations (although actually it only referred to her as "Lieutenant" with no distinction between a gold or hollow pip) in 2384, but in The Fall, she's referred to as an Ensign, and post-The Fall (including the first Coda novel), she's once more a Lieutenant. For my own notes, I have her serving as an Ensign from her first appearance in Q & A until her promotion in Silent Weapons and ignoring her appearance in The Fall as a typo - but if I'm wrong, let me know and I'll correct it.
     
  17. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Either of those would be reasonable. FWIW, Selar was an O-3 as ACMO on the E-D.

    Given that it's been six years or so, her having been promoted to JG is more likely than not.
     
  18. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Meanwhile, another doctor who doesn't seem to have a rank is Tamala Harstad - now her I can easily see as an O-3 Lieutenant unless told otherwise, while Dr. Tropp makes more sense as a Lieutenant Commander (again, unless told otherwise).

    Speaking of doctors, here's my so-called master list of doctors without official ranks - please let me know if they're correct or not:
    • Dr. Rebecca Emmanuelli, Starbase 1 - Captain (O-6); later confirmed by @KRAD upthread
    • Dr. Anthony "Tony" Leone, U.S.S. Endeavour (Vanguard/Seekers) - Commander (O-5)
    • Dr. Carter Greyhorse, U.S.S. Stargazer - Commander (O-5) (until incarceration)
    • Dr. Catherine Papadimitriou, U.S.S. Hood - Commander (O-5)/Lieutenant Commander (O-4) (honestly, this one could go either way)
    • Dr. El'nor Sal, U.S.S. Quirinal/Vesta - Commander (O-5)
    • Dr. Sarah Poole-April, U.S.S. Enterprise - Lieutenant Commander (O-4), possibly promoted to Commander (O-5) during April's 5-year mission
    • Dr. Jane Hamilton, U.S.S. Defiant (Constitution-class) - Lieutenant Commander (O-4)
    • Dr. Tropp, U.S.S. Enterprise-E - Lieutenant Commander (O-4)
    • Dr. Pascal Boudreaux, Deep Space 9 - Lieutenant Commander (O-4) (at least upon his promotion to CMO after the resignation of Dr. Bashir and temporary assignment of Dr. Crusher)
    • Dr. Lewis Rosenhaus, U.S.S. Constellation - Lieutenant (O-3)
    • Dr. Tamala Harstad, U.S.S. Enterprise-E - Lieutenant (O-3)
     
  19. Annorax

    Annorax Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    She was most likely LTJG until Coda, then promoted to full O-3 Lieutenant when she was made deputy chief of security (and then most likely the same promotion given to Kirsten Cruzen a few hours later when Balidemaj is killed in engineering).
     
  20. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Absolute minimum for a staff physician is LT-JG, but at least full LT seems likely for any MD with an experience or seniority.