Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releases)

[captcalhoun]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

no, she had to take the bridge test to be able to take shifts as the officer of the deck or watch officer or whatever the correct term is, to fill in when Will, Picard or Data weren't about, any how.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

True.

I just watched the episode again, and it's not the "Commander's Test", it's the "Bridge Officer's Test"...however, Deanna Troi in passing the test becomes a Commander in rank as well as in practice, which is confusing to the overall issue.

Data has held the night shift watch on numerous occasions as well as commanded the USS Sutherland as an acting Captain under Picard's Romulan Tachyon Detection Fleet, so why wasn't Data a Commander in Rank as well as practice?

I always thought Data as Captain & Commander of a Starship was one of the things that would of been great to showcase in the novels if the character hadn't died in the films.

Anyways....

I guess I just wanted an in universe explanation uniting all the various tidbits of information we've seen regarding the Rank of Full Commander & what it means for our favorite characters.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

True.

I just watched the episode again, and it's not the "Commander's Test", it's the "Bridge Officer's Test"...however, Deanna Troi in passing the test becomes a Commander in rank as well as in practice, which is confusing to the overall issue.

Data has held the night shift watch on numerous occasions as well as commanded the USS Sutherland as an acting Captain under Picard's Romulan Tachyon Detection Fleet, so why wasn't Data a Commander in Rank as well as practice?

We saw officers of lieutenant commander rank command the Defiant in DS9, so a promotion would likely be unnecessary if it was a temporary command.

Aboard the Enterprise, Data was still the ship's second officer so his position trumped Crusher and Troi regardless of their ranks. It may also have been a case that Data was already the highest-ranked officer in the yellow divisions too, but that there were other LCDRs in the blue divisions--it may have been necessary for Crusher and Troi to become CDRs to be the highest-ranking officers there, IMO...

 

[Csalem]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Geordi may have had to pass the bridge officer test to become Chief Engineer. After all, Scotty was nearly always in command of the Enterprise when Spock and Kirk went away on missions.

 

[Paris]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Geordi may have had to pass the bridge officer test to become Chief Engineer. After all, Scotty was nearly always in command of the Enterprise when Spock and Kirk went away on missions.

Geordi was already a bridge officer before he was the Chief. Remember? He was the flight controller. He even had command of the saucer section at one point in the first season. Unfortunately, I forget in which episode...

 

[Redshirts_Widow]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Geordi may have had to pass the bridge officer test to become Chief Engineer. After all, Scotty was nearly always in command of the Enterprise when Spock and Kirk went away on missions.

Geordi was already a bridge officer before he was the Chief. Remember? He was the flight controller. He even had command of the saucer section at one point in the first season. Unfortunately, I forget in which episode...

He commanded the entire ship in Series 1's 'The Arsenal Of Freedom', although he did separate the ship and took the Stardrive section back for the rescue mission IIRC

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

See that makes sense about La Forge, I forgot about Season 1. Some of you are not getting it, its not about rank as in title, but rank as in position. LTs and ENSs can command as well. Its all about whether the officer has command training. Geordi probably did a refresher course prior to Indistinguishable. I always thought in that book, Scotty was prepping him for Challenger's command when he first got there.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Yeah I got that impression as well... Also because we'd disscussed it in the forums many moon before IFM was announced.

I'll accept that Geordi took the Bridge Officer's Test year's ago (with a refresher), based on what we saw early on in Season 1.

What I'm now still fuzzy on is Why taking and passing the Bridge Officer's Test, bumped Troi in rank to than of Full Commander. (Still not clear on why she'd get promoted just for Bridge Qualification (Considering other Lt.Commanders like Data are just fine as Bridge Officers as is...)

I know that we're trying to make sense out of a fictitious military-like structure, but I appreciate all the responses and thoughts regarding this topic thus far.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

What I'm now still fuzzy on is Why taking and passing the Bridge Officer's Test, bumped Troi in rank to than of Full Commander.

My impression is that she was going for commander's rank and needed to pass the test as part of the qualifications for the rank. Or rather, that the test was the only qualification for the rank that she hadn't attained yet.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Hmm... Okay, that makes perfect sense.

Thanks Christopher.

I wonder what event occurs to make Julian Bashir decide to get his commander's pips. (Was it something akin to Beverly's 'wanting a Challenge'?)

I'd be interested to see if anyone in Starfleet was miffed in the slightest about a Genetically Engineered individual seeking command rank.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

don't forget this is the same organisation that lets brats 2 weeks out of the Academy take command of their ships...

 

[JD]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

See that makes sense about La Forge, I forgot about Season 1. Some of you are not getting it, its not about rank as in title, but rank as in position. LTs and ENSs can command as well. Its all about whether the officer has command training. Geordi probably did a refresher course prior to Indistinguishable. I always thought in that book, Scotty was prepping him for Challenger's command when he first got there.

Wasn't Harry in command of the Night Shift in some of the Voy. episodes?
Hmmm, I wonder if Data was always the Night Shift CO of the Enterprises? He didn't need to sleep or take breaks, so it would make sense if he was.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

The bridge officer's test is only for science & medical officers - those not normally in the chain of command. Geordi has proven experience at command, and he is an engineer (engineers are in the chain of command), so he would not need to take the test.

Basically, everyone who wears blue, takes the test. A doctor (Crusher), a counselor (Deanna), a science officer (if they had one ), that type of thing.

 

[Rosalind]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

^ why are engineers in the chain of command?

What I'm now still fuzzy on is Why taking and passing the Bridge Officer's Test, bumped Troi in rank to than of Full Commander.

My impression is that she was going for commander's rank and needed to pass the test as part of the qualifications for the rank. Or rather, that the test was the only qualification for the rank that she hadn't attained yet.

I know in the American military, you'll need to have a postgraduate degree (i.e. at least Masters) to get to Lt Colonel (or Commander in the Navy) or above.

 

[Idran]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

The bridge officer's test is only for science & medical officers - those not normally in the chain of command. Geordi has proven experience at command, and he is an engineer (engineers are in the chain of command), so he would not need to take the test.

Basically, everyone who wears blue, takes the test. A doctor (Crusher), a counselor (Deanna), a science officer (if they had one ), that type of thing.

I agree with the others, I think it's far more likely that it's because Geordi was originally command track and moved into Engineering. We don't really need to invent a reason to explain it when the first season showed that Geordi started out in Command.

 

[clint g]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Hmm... Okay, that makes perfect sense.

Thanks Christopher.

I wonder what event occurs to make Julian Bashir decide to get his commander's pips. (Was it something akin to Beverly's 'wanting a Challenge'?)

I'd be interested to see if anyone in Starfleet was miffed in the slightest about a Genetically Engineered individual seeking command rank.

Going off of the real life military, rank is often times a reflection of a persons duties and the amount of people they command.

In the case of Bashier, having not read the novels, perhaps the size of his staff increased thus warranting a higher rank. Or perhaps the slot he holds is a Commanders slot but he was filling it as a Lt Commander. Either way, if Starfleet is in any way organized like our military, it wouldn't be a matter of Bashier deciding to get his pips. It's more a matter of Bashier having enough time and experience in Starfleet that the higher ups feel he is ready to move on to bigger responsibilities.

 

[J.T.B.]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

^ why are engineers in the chain of command?

Presumably because running a starship is so technical that a solid engineering background is important, if not required, to be able to command one effectively. The United States Navy made a similar evaluation in the late 1800s: Just as an officer on a wind-propelled vessel had to thoroughly understand all the intricacies of the sails, so, it was reasoned, should an officer of a steam vessel have a strong background in the mechanics of its propulsion. Around 1900, the Engineer Corps of the navy was absorbed into the Line, and service in a vessel's engineering department became a standard step in the career of anyone who aspired to command a warship.

I agree with the others, I think it's far more likely that it's because Geordi was originally command track and moved into Engineering. We don't really need to invent a reason to explain it when the first season showed that Geordi started out in Command.

It's pretty clear in TOS and TNG that "command track" is not related to red/gold shirt status, and that engineers are definitely not barred from succeeding to command. Scotty, De Salle, La Forge and Logan were all engineers who were also clearly officers "of the line." Kirk also served in engineering earlier in his career and Will Decker also seemed to have engineering qualifications.

--Justin

 

[Idran]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

I agree with the others, I think it's far more likely that it's because Geordi was originally command track and moved into Engineering. We don't really need to invent a reason to explain it when the first season showed that Geordi started out in Command.

It's pretty clear in TOS and TNG that "command track" is not related to red/gold shirt status, and that engineers are definitely not barred from succeeding to command. Scotty, De Salle, La Forge and Logan were all engineers who were also clearly officers "of the line." Kirk also served in engineering earlier in his career and Will Decker also seemed to have engineering qualifications.

--Justin

Yeah, but in the case of Geordi in particular, he explicitly started out as a Command officer. Like was said, he was shown as a pilot on TNG before he was ever shown as an engineer.

 

[J.T.B.]

Re: Rank hath it's privileges... (Possible spoilers from Latest Releas

Yeah, but in the case of Geordi in particular, he explicitly started out as a Command officer. Like was said, he was shown as a pilot on TNG before he was ever shown as an engineer.

Right. The command division of a ship, despite its name, doesn't seem to have strong implications for someone's overall career or qualifications. One can apparently be a line or "command track" officer but be assigned to any of a ship's divisions.

--Justin