The truth of Trek, one day humans will overcome all their tribal prejudices so they can treat aliens like shit instead.... Terra Prime forever!
Race and culture in the Trek universe
- Thread starter Nyotarules
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I'm firmly convinced that the "Sorry, neither" was an act of getting crap past the censors, since it was, in effect, a declaration that she was neither light-skinned nor a virgin.
As I recall, in "The Savage Curtain," there was a whole exchange of dialogue, growing out of "Lincoln" declaring, on meeting Uhura, "What a charming negress." As I recall, Blish's short story adaptation took the exchange further than the aired version.
I'm sure that most here are aware that when ADF was commissioned to do adaptations of TAS, he took a very different approach than Blish (and his wife) did, writing ten novels, with the first six combining three scripts each, and the last four extending a single episode each, with far more original material than adapted material. And so, in Star Trek Log Nine, when McCoy solves the medical mystery that had been plaguing the silicon-based people of Boqu for centuries, and found out that it was a radiation deficiency, he compared the artificial supplementary radiation projectors to sun-lamps. Then followed a discussion of how 20th century light-skinned humans would expose themselves to artificial UV projectors to artificially darken their skin . . . and some dark-skinned humans would use artificial means to lighten their skin. Spock pointed out that light-skinned humans discriminated against dark-skinned humans at that same time, and then wondered at the irrationality of it all.
(And for my own part, I don't invite anybody to refer to me by my ethnicity, but if you must do so, then I am a honkie, or even a blue-eyed devil, not a "white guy," a goy, not a "gentile," and a gringo, not an "anglo." In other words, I prefer to refer to my ethnicity in the most dysphemistic terms possible, because I never want to forget that I am the unwilling beneficiary of people who look like me, who have done unspeakable acts against people who don't look like me, and that I owe people who don't look like me a debt that I can never hope to fully repay.)
As I recall, in "The Savage Curtain," there was a whole exchange of dialogue, growing out of "Lincoln" declaring, on meeting Uhura, "What a charming negress." As I recall, Blish's short story adaptation took the exchange further than the aired version.
I'm sure that most here are aware that when ADF was commissioned to do adaptations of TAS, he took a very different approach than Blish (and his wife) did, writing ten novels, with the first six combining three scripts each, and the last four extending a single episode each, with far more original material than adapted material. And so, in Star Trek Log Nine, when McCoy solves the medical mystery that had been plaguing the silicon-based people of Boqu for centuries, and found out that it was a radiation deficiency, he compared the artificial supplementary radiation projectors to sun-lamps. Then followed a discussion of how 20th century light-skinned humans would expose themselves to artificial UV projectors to artificially darken their skin . . . and some dark-skinned humans would use artificial means to lighten their skin. Spock pointed out that light-skinned humans discriminated against dark-skinned humans at that same time, and then wondered at the irrationality of it all.
(And for my own part, I don't invite anybody to refer to me by my ethnicity, but if you must do so, then I am a honkie, or even a blue-eyed devil, not a "white guy," a goy, not a "gentile," and a gringo, not an "anglo." In other words, I prefer to refer to my ethnicity in the most dysphemistic terms possible, because I never want to forget that I am the unwilling beneficiary of people who look like me, who have done unspeakable acts against people who don't look like me, and that I owe people who don't look like me a debt that I can never hope to fully repay.)
Okay, well, people can call me whatever makes them feel better, but I don't feel I owe anybody anything, because I didn't personally do anything to anybody, and I'm certainly not responsible for anything any of my ancestors may have done before I was born.
Though you can blame me for writing run-on sentences.
Though you can blame me for writing run-on sentences.
It was on my list of things to do today, to make the same point.
"The Naked Time" was written by John D. F. Black, a writer who Star Trek was lucky to have, who went on to co-write the screenplay for Shaft (1971) with Tidyman, the original novel's author. To suggest that Black was not aware of either the sexual innuendo or the racial innuendo in the "fair maiden... sorry, neither" exchange when he wrote it* is really quite implausible.
* - that is, assuming he wrote it, e.g. because it was not ad libbed (see below)
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I totally agree. Once I was old enough to "get it," I couldn't help but admire the writer who gave her the line. I mean, Nichelle Nichols was dissuaded from leaving the show by Martin Luther King because he felt that it was important that she be there as an African woman--a black woman. And I admired how the line makes it clear that she is experienced sexually and not embarrassed to say so. It's both funny and enlightening about her character.
I think @Sir Rhosis is script guy. Maybe he has some early drafts?Again, I'm curious about the line's origin, because I could swear I read somewhere that she ad-libbed it and they let it stay. I may be totally wrong, because ya hear a lotta crap in 60 years of fandom.
I've updated my post to say that my remarks are based on the assumption that the line was not ad libbed. I've no personal knowledge one way or the other. The Memory Alpha article on the episode does not discuss the lines, beyond quoting them and recounting that they were said.Again, I'm curious about the line's origin, because I could swear I read somewhere that she ad-libbed it and they let it stay. I may be totally wrong, because ya hear a lotta crap in 60 years of fandom.
According to these posts on the board, it was scripted [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-making-of-blishs-novelizations.310116/#post-13996442, https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-making-of-blishs-novelizations.310116/#post-13996452]:
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I will point out that in every case where we've seen a form of bigotry from humans in Star Trek (Lt. Stiles with Spock, O'Brien with the Cardassians, Kirk with the Klingons), they eventually seem to recognize their own failings, and at least try to move beyond it.
When Bashir counsels O'Brien in DS9's "Hard Time," he makes the argument that O'Brien has it all wrong when he faults himself for failing to be an "evolved" human being. The fact that O'Brien has guilt over his failings and wanted to be a better man shows how he is so much more than just some animal.
I think, to me, that's the message I get from Star Trek's view of humanity. Humans aren't perfect, but they've reached a place where they, by-and-large, want to be better. And its becomes a society where reason and facts have won out over ideology and blind belief. That even when they fail, they're willing to listen to reason and learn from it, instead of clinging to a wrong belief.
I think there's a difference between Scotty's kilt and Worf's baldric or Kira's religious earring. One is a personal family heirloom from a distinct aspect of humanity, while the others are cultural aspects of being Klingon and Bajoran to their societies as a whole in a "planet of hats" kind-of-way. It's an expression of a major aspect of their culture that is a defining aspect of their culture, where Scotty's kilt is personal to him.
I can see family history still being important to people, but I don't get the feeling from Star Trek that race or national heritage is a defining aspect in human society by the 23rd and 24th centuries. The best way I can put it is that I think history and family history is important to Sisko given how he reacts to Vic's holodeck program. But from everything we've seen over the years about the setting, I don't believe that by this point in human history anyone on a societal level either thinks about or cares that Sisko is a Black human member of Starfleet or a Black captain of a starship. In the same way that I don't think anyone takes significance in that Janeway is a female member of Starfleet or a woman captain. I just think they've moved beyond that as a society.
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People seem to honor their identity, but it's just a small part of the people they are. Sisko wears clothes with an African motif, but his main identities are father, Starfleet officer, and eventually, Emissary. Janeway allows herself to be a woman, but she is principally an explorer, a scientist, and a Starfleet officer. Ergo, she chooses not to be called "sir", but her preferred form of address is "Captain".
Maybe it's a little like the Great American Melting Pot short you watched on Saturday morning if you're close to my age... as a Federation citizen or Starfleet officer, you're a part of a greater whole, but you're still you.
All humans all the time?
Because that sounds like too broad a stroke and I'm saying there are some, very few, who might value it in a wrong way. Just because the majority does doesn't preclude individuals or groups from rejecting this.
Servin's group, Alixus' group, colonists from "up the long ladder." Or various bad admirals who appear across the different series. They may be exceptions, but that's what I would expect.
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I don't really see how a group of Native Americans setting up their own colony on another planet so as to preserve their unique culture is all that different from, say, the people who set up a colony because they wanted to re-create early 21st Century North American culture in SNW "Hegemony," or the people who set up a colony to preserve their Scottish heritage in TNG "Sub Rosa" or any of the other reasons people set up colonies. There's nothing wrong with wanting to preserve your culture against homogenizing influences, as long as you're not asserting your culture's superiority or rights over overs or violating anyone's rights, or preventing the members of your culture from leaving and joining the larger culture.
Like, are we also gonna get judgmental of the Amish for wishing to live apart from the rest of American culture?
Like, are we also gonna get judgmental of the Amish for wishing to live apart from the rest of American culture?
I would agree. Hence the reason I preface it with "by-and-large." There's always going to be some exceptions.
But one of my favorite episodes of the entire franchise is "The Devil in the Dark" from TOS. I think that episode represents everything about the ethos of Star Trek and the mindset of humanity it wants to represent. Both the Horta and the miners have suffered losses. They could both be vengeful and destroy the other because of what's happened. However, once they realize the horrible misunderstanding that's occurred, they both find a way to live together.
The miners, who are at that point an angry mob when they think they're fighting a monster, choose to show decency in the moment that Kirk and Spock explain the tragedy of it all.
Here's where I'm going to sound like a conservative, but this sort of thing strikes me like the recent trend on college campuses to set up "safe spaces" for different racial/minority groups, wherein dorms and living spaces are effectively segregated. Sure, you can do it, especially if you're a private university not using public funds, but is it a good idea? If we as a society recognize multiculturalism and the diversity of peoples and ideas as good things, then part of that is not supporting the separation of those peoples into their own little enclaves, but creating a community where everyone is welcome everywhere.
Also, the entire idea of trying to "preserve your culture against homogenizing influences" strikes me as folly since cultures aren't static. American culture is in a constant state of flux as different peoples bring different influences to it. The fact it evolves and changes is not a bad thing. That's a strength. Otherwise, you truly are like the Amish fighting change and progress.
To me, something like Crusher's family off on some planet doing Scottish cosplay is ridiculous, no different than the people in Lower Decks who founded a colony around a Renaissance fair aesthetic to play out their Game of Thrones-esque fantasies. Because it's not preserving a cultural identity, it's fetishsizing a fantasy version of it.
Don't know. But, I love that Trek has the space to experiment and find out. Because, even in the United States, the concept was several different experiments in democracy, not one big monolithic culture. Same within the Federation.
Which Trek does repeatedly. I don't really see the issue.
Planet Scotland bothers me not at all, especially because it preserved not a bloodline or race, but rather a culture, an environment. Note that the colony leader was not only not Scottish, he wasn't human. So it's clearly not about being race-exclusive!
Most of the colonies that the Enterprise visited look like human only colonies, (probably due to budget constraints to avoid using alien makeup for the actors and background extras).
However, based on what is on screen, colonies and scientific outposts segregated by race are accepted by the Federation. e.g This side of Paradise colony, all human, Omnicron Theta, Data's home, looks all humn, the Up the Long Ladder travellers and research center, all human, the terraforming colony Home Soil, all human, the Hegemony colony all human. So the Native American colony is not doing anything unusual.
Exceptions
The only human founded colony shown with alien members was in Sub Rosa.
The Burnhams lived on a Vulcan science colony.
But segregation by culture or species for colonies is pretty common on Trek and none of the characters treat it as unusual.
31st century UFP should be over this type of colonies by species set up.
However, based on what is on screen, colonies and scientific outposts segregated by race are accepted by the Federation. e.g This side of Paradise colony, all human, Omnicron Theta, Data's home, looks all humn, the Up the Long Ladder travellers and research center, all human, the terraforming colony Home Soil, all human, the Hegemony colony all human. So the Native American colony is not doing anything unusual.
Exceptions
The only human founded colony shown with alien members was in Sub Rosa.
The Burnhams lived on a Vulcan science colony.
But segregation by culture or species for colonies is pretty common on Trek and none of the characters treat it as unusual.
31st century UFP should be over this type of colonies by species set up.
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