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Spoilers R rated content - what does it add?

Dude, you dropped the ball. You're LITERALLY his older brother, you shoulda just given him your login and said "Don't tell dad! <fistbump>"

My mother- and father-in-law watch the kids' media consumption like hawks. He's on the spectrum (very high end of it, he mostly just comes off as awkward and neurotic) and they baby him terribly.

But it's my father-in-law who is the Trek fan, not him.
 
I think i’ll Just chalk this one up to cultural wire crossing.
You see, over here, we have a rating system and a watershed, and christian or otherwise, it’s considered inappropriate to expose kids to certain levels of violence in the media. Not to mention the difference between a nine year old and a six year old.
'over here'? your location says 'London', so I have to assume you are living in a culture where it is totally normal that 4 year olds watch Doctor Who, a show by the way, that in most cases is way scarier than anything DISCO offered
 
'over here'? your location says 'London', so I have to assume you are living in a culture where it is totally normal that 4 year olds watch Doctor Who, a show by the way, that in most cases is way scarier than anything DISCO offered
And half the time, more violent. You've got a small robotic mini-tank tearing its way through a room full of security guards with machineguns, blasting them with x-ray lasers screaming "Exterminate!" My son's been watching Doctor Who almost as long as he's been watching Star Trek and I'm not ashamed to say he's a little partial to the former.
 
'over here'? your location says 'London', so I have to assume you are living in a culture where it is totally normal that 4 year olds watch Doctor Who, a show by the way, that in most cases is way scarier than anything DISCO offered

It by nature can’t be, there are rules that rule out certain things in certain time slots...though again, recently they moved Who to a later slot, went more explicit with the horror and visuals, and lost the viewers and toy market share etc accordingly. Not to mention having a chunk of the fan base point out this was a bad idea. This isn’t some airy fairy opinion, there are actual rules over here. *shrug*
That’s before I mention BBFC certificates and why they are a thing.
 
It by nature can’t be, there are rules that rule out certain things in certain time slots...though again, recently they moved Who to a later slot, went more explicit with the horror and visuals, and lost the viewers and toy market share etc accordingly. Not to mention having a chunk of the fan base point out this was a bad idea. This isn’t some airy fairy opinion, there are actual rules over here. *shrug*
That’s before I mention BBFC certificates and why they are a thing.
still, the Weeping Angles freaked the hell out of my fiance and she watched Blink when she was older than 30. (she had nightmares for weeks) The Daleks and Cybermen add another dimension to body horror since the 60s that the Borg never reached. And the main character is a morally ambigious alien, nicknamed "The Oncoming Storm", "Bringer of Darkness", "The Slaughterer of the Ten Billion", "The Vessel Of The Final Darkness" or "The Great Destruction of the Universe" by his enemies for obvious reasons
 
still, the Weeping Angles freaked the hell out of my fiance and she watched Blink when she was older than 30. (she had nightmares for weeks) The Daleks and Cybermen add another dimension to body horror since the 60s that the Borg never reached. And the main character is a morally ambigious alien, nicknamed "The Oncoming Storm", "Bringer of Darkness", "The Slaughterer of the Ten Billion", "The Vessel Of The Final Darkness" or "The Great Destruction of the Universe" by his enemies for obvious reasons

And yet, very, very, rarely is there any actual physical depiction of such horrors on screen, and when there was it caused no end of trouble. I mean...DISCO will never, ever, reach the levels of Black we saw in Resurrection of the Daleks, but very little ever will. But then, that’s the stuff that lead to the hiatus, a Doctor losing his job etc etc. The recent (first season Capaldi) stuff with skinned humans being used to make a hot air ballon etc...well, that’s about the time they lost a chunk of the audience, particularly in school age kids.
It still, in spite all of this, has yet to show the charnel house of the Klingon Sarcophagus room, the depiction of alien rape, or someone wearing their insides on the outsides in such vivid detail as DSC.
You may find it ‘scarier’ but it is objectively less violent. For good reason.
 
It by nature can’t be, there are rules that rule out certain things in certain time slots...though again, recently they moved Who to a later slot, went more explicit with the horror and visuals
When and how the fuck did THAT happen? "Dalek" was an episode in SEASON ONE, and they opened Season 2 with the Doctor having his hand cut off in a sword fight after the Sycorax literally incinerate two people on camera.

Other than Bill Pots having a giant hole blasted in her chest (which was shocking for reasons that have nothing to do with the visuals) what "horror" aspect did they add that wasn't there before? If anything they've actually gotten TAMER over the years; they haven't shown an episode even HALF as disturbing as "Silence in the Library" and it's been at least two seasons since we saw someone get eaten alive by space creatures (other than the Vikings, of course, but technically they weren't still alive when they got eaten).

Not to mention having a chunk of the fan base point out this was a bad idea.
748c3f4a08e5c99a113a27ea8ca1b488bca6d4a2fed8fb208fb5f431673f70f9.jpg


Seriously: WHAT?
 
And yet, very, very, rarely is there any actual physical depiction of such horrors on screen
You mean OTHER than the time the Doctor pulled a three-foot long electrical cable out of the brain of cyberized not-Martha Jones? That was Season 2.

Remember the time Donna Noble's boyfriend got eaten by a giant spider bitch? That was the CHRISTMAS SPECIAL two episodes later.

Remember these guys? At the end of Season 3?
image.jpg


Victims of the same guy who hit the Doctor with a hyper-age ray later in that same episode,
Last_6.jpg


... who later turned into a flesh-eating, lightning-shooting Demigod.
32ee27f732b05d3bc8ba3c5e7d31fafdc212ee2e_hq.jpg



The recent (first season Capaldi) stuff with skinned humans being used to make a hot air ballon etc...well, that’s about the time they lost a chunk of the audience, particularly in school age kids.
Much like your complaint about Discovery, I'm 99% sure you mean that this is when they lost YOU in the audience and you just assume that a lot of people felt the same way. But consider that episode came several seasons AFTER we saw several people literally implode into walking blobs of human fat and scamper off into the distance, I'm forced to wonder if you ever actually WATCHED Doctor Who at all.
 
You mean OTHER than the time the Doctor pulled a three-foot long electrical cable out of the brain of cyberized not-Martha Jones? That was Season 2.

Remember the time Donna Noble's boyfriend got eaten by a giant spider bitch? That was the CHRISTMAS SPECIAL two episodes later.

Remember these guys? At the end of Season 3?
image.jpg


Victims of the same guy who hit the Doctor with a hyper-age ray later in that same episode,
Last_6.jpg


... who later turned into a flesh-eating, lightning-shooting Demigod.
32ee27f732b05d3bc8ba3c5e7d31fafdc212ee2e_hq.jpg




Much like your complaint about Discovery, I'm 99% sure you mean that this is when they lost YOU in the audience and you just assume that a lot of people felt the same way. But consider that episode came several seasons AFTER we saw several people literally implode into walking blobs of human fat and scamper off into the distance, I'm forced to wonder if you ever actually WATCHED Doctor Who at all.

Trust me. I am aware of Doctor Who. I have been watching it a very, very long time. I still do. I also know about the rules on British Television, and whatever your, or my, subjective opinion may be about ‘scary’, I know what it can and can’t show, what it can intimate, and what it can be explicit about.
You can roar and exclaim all you like, screenshots, what have you. Objectively, Doctor Who is less violent than DSC. Hence this topic about its R rated scenes. You can even try making assumptions about me, they have all been wrong so far, so keep swinging.
Think also, about the context, Who shows you monsters, but then shows you a man who usually quietly, almost always without violence, stops the monsters...usually within one story. Context is everything. Who is family viewing, aside from the occasional mis-steps around Capaldi and the Second Baker...DSC, as you have said, is not aimed at a Family audience.
That, I think, is a mistake. It should be, because that was one of Treks strengths. Who merely illustrates when moving away from that can be a mistake (roughly speaking, 1985, and again in about oooh...2014? 2015? Thereabouts..it hasn’t really got back on track for audiences under about 12 yet.) and the effect that has on audience.
I am talking purely about the screen versions here, I don’t think things like The Eleven Day Empire or the Nine Gallifreys, Fitz and Compassion, or the fall of the Pythia were aimed at anything but an adult fan audience.
 
People who call Capaldi a 'misstep'...
nah, I'm not writing what I think about them.

Anyway, DISCO, R-rated, no matter how obvious the hypocrisy of posters who let their kids watch Who is, an r-rating is just a rating. there will be no special forces commando storm your house just because your kid watches it. there are no consequences. you have nothing to fear.
and your children will love what they see. what goes over their head goes over their head and maybe they will learn something
 
People who call Capaldi a 'misstep'...
nah, I'm not writing what I think about them.

Anyway, DISCO, R-rated, no matter how obvious the hypocrisy of posters who let their kids watch Who is, an r-rating is just a rating. there will be no special forces commando storm your house just because your kid watches it. there are no consequences. you have nothing to fear.
and your children will love what they see. what goes over their head goes over their head and maybe they will learn something

Oh I like Capaldi, I am even one of ‘those’ people that liked Clara, etc. The misstep in my opinion was skewing a bit too dark, and moving it to too late a time slot on Saturday nights. Heck I even have no argument with Moffat, and I am sure that gets you on some kind of list.

And there’s no hypocrisy from me *shrug* I check how suitable things are before little one gets to see it, and he’s not seen Who since Matt Smith fell at Trenzalore. I couldn’t put it on for him in good faith, then he lost interest...he only really watches old ones now, when he likes. (Clever little one got a promise of one episode of Doctor Who of his choice before bed....chooses the Five Doctors. He’s not silly.)

Teams of commandoes? Meh. The ratings are there for a good reason tbh.

DSC is not suitable for a six year old, and from my perspective, that’s a shame and a mistake.
 
Trust me. I am aware of Doctor Who. I have been watching it a very, very long time. I still do. I also know about the rules on British Television, and whatever your, or my, subjective opinion may be about ‘scary’, I know what it can and can’t show, what it can intimate, and what it can be explicit about.
I'm sure you think that's true, but the record shows that the themes you're complaining about have been a staple of Doctor for the last ten years now. So either you're misunderstanding what the standards are, or you're misunderstanding how they're being applied.

Or both.

Objectively, Doctor Who is less violent than DSC.
Objectively? It is not. Just counting the acts of violence on both shows, you find they are either neck and neck or Doctor Who is slightly ahead for its first ten episodes. And this before you consider that Discovery has never depicted a person being literally turned inside out by a nanorobot swarm as the parts of a gas mask grow out of the lining of his throat and eventually consume what's left of his face. That was SEASON 1, dude.

I don't know what the hell is going on with British Television, but if you're trying to make the case that Discovery has shown us ANYTHING as disturbing as "The Empty Child" then you are truly and deeply warped.

Context is everything. Who is family viewing.
Because a carnivorous airborne swarm that looks exactly like shadows on the ground but will literally strip you to a skeleton in three quarters of a second is perfectly okay for kids, but a blimp apparently made out of human skin is too damn far...

British people are weird as hell.

That, I think, is a mistake. It should be, because that was one of Treks strengths. Who merely illustrates when moving away from that can be a mistake (roughly speaking, 1985, and again in about oooh...2014? 2015? Thereabouts..it hasn’t really got back on track for audiences under about 12 yet.) and the effect that has on audience.
Okay, let's cut the bullshit here: the thing that had an "effect on the audience" was the negative reaction to some of Moffatt's creative decisions and the general incoherence of the "Hybrid" storyline, plus Peter Capaldi taking an exceptionally long time to find his groove as a Doctor persona (he dabbled with "Cranky old Scott" which failed to really land and then switched to the slightly more interesting "Hipster Doctor" with the guitar and the glasses, which also sort of failed to land). Moffatt's storylines in the Capaldi era came off as meandering and unfocussed, both internally and as a series, which annoyed fans and made the show alot harder for casual viewers to follow.

In truth, the "horror" aspects of the series are and have always been its strongest points. The Weeping Angels, the Vashta Narada, the Silence, the Ood, these are all remembered for their weirdness and also for the emotions they evoke when they go bad and come after you. Doctor Who is monster theater more than anything else and it really always has been. What's been alienating younger fans is the brooding/depressing tone of the writing itself, something FAR more subtle than is indicated with your idiosyncratic obsession with "violence." Doctor Who is and has always been rather violent and disturbing, but only under Baker and Capaldi did it also become grim.

Violence, kids understand. They get violence, they expect it. Little boys imitate it and even glorify it because they're boys, they're stupid like that, it's how they're wired. But show those same little kids a story about a man deliberately manipulating his best friend into committing a minor war crime as an abject lesson on the Machiavellian nature of the universe... that hits kids below the belt. Because while they expect the world to be violent and scary, they also expect it to be FAIR, and The Doctor being an asshole and getting away with it disturbs people on a far more primal level. 12-and-unders don't like grim, but then nobody really does except for goths, cynics, and people who managed to get through Atlas Shrugged without developing an aneurysm.

Discovery is many things -- violent, humorous, exciting, sometimes even a little bit sexy -- but it is far from grim.
 
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I'm sure you think that's true, but the record shows that the themes you're complaining about have been a staple of Doctor for the last ten years now. So either you're misunderstanding what the standards are, or you're misunderstanding how they're being applied.

Or both.


Objectively? It is not. Just counting the acts of violence on both shows, you find they are either neck and neck or Doctor Who is slightly ahead for its first ten episodes. And this before you consider that Discovery has never depicted a person being literally turned inside out by a nanorobot swarm as the parts of a gas mask grow out of the lining of his throat and eventually consume what's left of his face. That was SEASON 1, dude.

I don't know what the hell is going on with British Television, but if you're trying to make the case that Discovery has shown us ANYTHING as disturbing as "The Empty Child" then you are truly and deeply warped.


Because a carnivorous airborne swarm that looks exactly like shadows on the ground but will literally strip you to a skeleton in three quarters of a second is perfectly okay for kids, but a blimp apparently made out of human skin is too damn far...

British people are weird as hell.


Okay, let's cut the bullshit here: the thing that had an "effect on the audience" was the negative reaction to some of Moffatt's creative decisions and the general incoherence of the "Hybrid" storyline, plus Peter Capaldi taking an exceptionally long time to find his groove as a Doctor persona (he dabbled with "Cranky old Scott" which failed to really land and then switched to the slightly more interesting "Hipster Doctor" with the guitar and the glasses, which also sort of failed to land). Moffatt's storylines in the Capaldi era came off as meandering and unfocussed, both internally and as a series, which annoyed fans and made the show alot harder for casual viewers to follow.

In truth, the "horror" aspects of the series are and have always been its strongest points. The Weeping Angels, the Vashta Narada, the Silence, the Ood, these are all remembered for their weirdness and also for the emotions they evoke when they go bad and come after you. Doctor Who is monster theater more than anything else and it really always has been. What's been alienating younger fans is the brooding/depressing tone of the writing itself, something FAR more subtle than is indicated with your idiosyncratic obsession with "violence." Doctor Who is and has always been rather violent and disturbing, but only under Baker and Capaldi did it also become grim.

Violence, kids understand. They get violence, they expect it. Little boys imitate it and even glorify it because they're boys, they're stupid like that, it's how they're wired. But show those same little kids a story about a man deliberately manipulating his best friend into committing a minor war crime as an abject lesson on the Machiavellian nature of the universe... that hits kids below the belt. Because while they expect the world to be violent and scary, they also expect it to be FAIR, and The Doctor being an asshole and getting away with it disturbs people on a far more primal level. 12-and-unders don't like grim, but then nobody really does except for goths, cynics, and people who managed to get through Atlas Shrugged without developing an aneurysm.

Discovery is many things -- violent, humorous, exciting, sometimes even a little bit sexy -- but it is far from grim.

You are confusing a scary idea with its execution, Fantasy violence with realistic violence, and, in terms of your audience reading, confusing fan opinion with public opinion. You are also continuing to disregard the cultural and legal differences around such content in the US and UK.
Doctor Who is rarely ‘real’ in its portrayal of violence, and is shown in a tea-time slot. DSC would not be able to be shown in that slot without a lot of editing. I will be interested to see what rating the Home media release gets from the BBFC given its linking of sexual scenes with violence...no Doctor Who release to my knowledge has been rated higher than a 12, with Most a PG. DSC is a safe bet for a fifteen, possibly 18.
I would make a joke about William Hartnell dealing with Unearthly Children not Empty ones, but I fear it would fall on very stoney ground.
You have made your assumptions, your insults, and will remain quantifiably wrong. This thread mentions DSC’s R rated content...are we discussing something that does not exist?
 
So I'm by no means prudish. I watch plenty of shows with adult content. So, in theory, an TV-MA/R-rated level Trek shouldn't bother me.

What bugs me is that, 99% of the time, the show isn't worse than TV-14, but they pepper in brief moments that put it over the limit for that rating. Sure, the f-bomb seen was amusing, but it wasn't really necessary. The frontal Klingon nudity even less so. It just feels kind of pointless beyond "Hey look guys, we're a mature show!"

It also led to a slightly awkward conversation with my father-in-law. My wife has a half-brother and half-sister who are significantly younger than her, and my father-in-law is a Trek fan. I offered him my All Access log-in, but had to warn him he couldn't watch it in front of the kids (they're overly protective of them, their son is almost 16).
You are one of the few who actually understands the question I asked in the OP. st everyone in this thread has misunderstood it and embarked on a crusade to justify mature content rather than simply stopping to think whether or not it adds anything. So far I don't think it can be argued it has added a great deal. I very much feels like they are doing it for the reasons you say.
 
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