It’s unclear, but there doesn’t really need to be...7 months is part of the Ash Tyler legend. He could have spent seven months watching everybody loves Raymond, then turned up in the cell a day before Lorca. Mudd is the interesting question.
Spoilers R rated content - what does it add?
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It’s unclear, but there doesn’t really need to be...7 months is part of the Ash Tyler legend. He could have spent seven months watching everybody loves Raymond, then turned up in the cell a day before Lorca. Mudd is the interesting question.
Wow, his torture was even more horrifying than I could imagine.
By seven months it sounds like Tyler has been there since the beginning of the war, whereas we saw Voq well after the time jump between episodes 2 and 3. That's assuming there were no more massive time jumps.
TOS was always pushing the envelope with the censors. For the episode ‘A Private Little War’, they had Nona filmed semi naked under a waterfall. Knowing that showing boobs would mean the scene would be cut, it was there to distract, so that the censors would let other stuff slide.
I don't think Discovery goes far enough. If it's a show for adults then commit fully and have it be for adults. DSC shouldn't be GOT lite.
I don't think Discovery goes far enough. If it's a show for adults then commit fully and have it be for adults. DSC shouldn't be GOT lite.
Yes..but we only have Tyler’s word for that, and his assumed identity is of an officer that went missing at that first battle. The federation used one of their corpses, it’s possible the Klingons used one of the federations.
Except, whatever TOS was aiming for, it became a show accessible to kids (golden age of SF is 12 after all.) and adults. And what’s the point? All that silliness will lead to is more violence and gore...you aren’t gonna get an art House movie of starfleet officers sitting around naked on their off days, or skinny dipping on Alien Worlds. American TV rules...the Klingon boobs had to be hidden in a violent montage (surprised the BBFC wasn’t all over that in the UK, sexualised violence is a no no.) and they linger more on open corpses than on that. Such torture porn and gore titilation will kill the franchise.
Whatever our feelings are on the artistic merits of including it, it certainly won't do that. Some very successful SF properties have far worse violent content. It doesn't kill a franchise, although it may shift the audience. I'm not convinced that children are the main audience of space opera SF anymore anyway. Did kids watch nuBSG? Do they watch The Expanse?
They do t because they were aimed higher, same as DSC. Dark Matter, in its edited 8pm form, and may e killjoys still go down to say a twelve year audience I think. Sadly nothing for ,y six year old, which is about how old I was watching Trek (included TV edits of wrath of Khan.
Mind you, even Star Wars skews older with its cinema offerings. What ya gonna do.
The kids have their own things. Wars, Trek, even Who (each with various “family watchability”) are largely kept going by an older demographic than anyone likes to admit. The “oldsters” are not necessarily the majority but they are significant AND they have the money.
I’m 50 years old. I love sci-fi (hard and opera-ish), superhero movies (still regularly buy comics—also skewing older than when I was a kid), and so on. I guarantee you when my dad was 50, he indulged in none of those things. Exceedingly few of his peers did. A majority of mine don’t either but I have far more peers who do. And we’ve dragged the target audience into an older group, so gradually our favourite stuff has moved in the same direction.
I am in my mid thirties, and a lot of these things are generational..my dad built an enterprise in the late sixties, early seventies, then he built me a few in the eighties, last year I started building the Voyager for my little boy. The demographic in general moves down...hence the eighties (aka when I was little) now being the big thing. But the only way you keep your demographic is if you get younger viewers...otherwise, sooner or later, everyone who grokked Spock, is gonna be dead. Twenty, thirty years tops, original TOS fans from the sixties will sadly no longer be with us. And young kids and young adults spend a whole lot more on geek toys.
They do t like admitting their fan base is getting old and creaky (and varieties thereof if you are talking Who, we have factions in our factions.) BUT they can’t afford to alienate them. Trek has always been good at this precisely because it was generational. It doesn’t need to chase the Game Of Thrones hipster cash, or even the Twin Peaks born again cash, it just needs to keep up with the Joneses and make sure those generations get ‘their’ Trek, which leads them to the others, which make makes it part of a cultural tapestry rather than just an event.
The R rating has added nothing so far. Not that I am against an R rated and/or more mature Trek - it's just the writers have done anything meaningful with it so far. Discovery so far could have been PG and no noticeable change in plot, theme or substance would have occurred.
Apart from a nipple count at 2, Disco hasn't shown anything that hasn't been see in trek before.
Deranged Starfleet Officers: check
Mutiliated bodies: check
Exploding heads, bodies disintegrating into skeletons while the heads are still alive, check
Rape: check
Torture: check
Sitting inappropriately in chairs: check
Calling the galley to order a pizza to be replicated and then having it sent to Saru's quarters when he didn't really order it. Well no, but it should happen, and often.
Sure. But I'd only start worrying that Trek is "abandoning" the younger generations if the next 3 or more series/movie "groups" up the ante on what is going on with DSC. TOS was not conveniently scheduled in first-run for "family viewing", if that is defined as "ages 5 and up". It became that way in syndication. Even then, much of it was really more suitable for 10-12 and up, within the context of expectations in the 60s and 70s (some of it remains that way today). I was 20 when TNG premiered, so it was not going to be "too mature" for me, regardless of what path it followed. And so on. And while the bulk of TNG-era Trek, along with ENT, could be watched without traumatizing a generic 5 year old, there were many episodes that were aimed well above the 5-8 year old crowd ("adult" need not be gory, vulgar or explicitly sexual--though it can be one or all as well, without needing to apologize).
I started watching TOS at the age of 6. Babysitter put it on one night in 1973 (Devil in the Dark--remember it clearly). My wife would have been freaked out at that age. My daughter, not so much. My son would have had nightmares for weeks. Now that my children are 12 and 16 (son is younger), most of Trek is available for "family viewing". But DSC will wait a bit for him (my daughter shows no current interest in Trek, beyond the Kelvin movies). But what I considered "family viewing" when they were 4 and 8, respectively, did not include anything but a (very) few episodes of Trek. C'est la vie.
Sadly, children are no longer the main audience of space opera science-fiction because producers no longer make content for them. I would not let a child younger than 16 watch nuBSG and watch The Expanse.
When was the last time that children were truly the main audience? SImplistic stuff like Tom Corbett, Space Cadet comes to mind, as well as Lost in Space.
ST:TOS was a cut above that, with stories that were definitely more grownup-oriented. As already mentioned in this thread, some of the content was too intense for kids. And many of the themes would have gone over their heads.
Even Star Wars, while playing on on the nostalgia of the unsophisticated Saturday afternoon matinee serials of the 1940s, was definitely more adult in its presentation than those original serials.
Kor
Yep, when I watched as a kid what I got from the show was different than what I got as a teen and as an adult
SF television and films, like comic books, are seen as safe for children because adults never bother to check what they're about. And as adults, those of us who did watch as kids, tend to view our experience through some pretty thick nostalgia glasses.
I think there's a risk of throwing away the impact of the story if it is just a fake memory in his flashback. If it was supposed to be real so we could be shocked by the horror of his abuse that has merit to that story. Making it a fake out dilutes that.
This I think is the reality of Discovery it is not meant to be for the family and is choosing to present itself for a different market, hence its rating.
Hi everyone I'm a "child" and a fan of science fiction but I don't watch many of the new shows like "the Expanse" yet or inappropriate shows like "Game of Thrones" but I do watch "Discovery" because I'm defintly a Star Trek fan even though some of the episodes are too scary for me but I just cover my eyes for those parts or in Discovery's case, (it is called Dis*COVER*y after all) I pretend the violence isn't there just like I pretend the lens flares and modern technology isn't there! At least I get to use my imagination instead of just watching TV!
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