They can have their cake and eat it. That's so gay.
Quinto is out of the closet
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They can have their cake and eat it. That's so gay.
Good for Zach.
Probably shouldn't get into this, but here goes...firstly, I have no problems with people being homosexuals, I do consider it a part of the natural world that a certain percentage of animals(yes we are animals as well) may have such proclivities, although admittedly, I do not feel any need whatsoever to look at gay males being affectionate, on the street or on the movie screen. Yes, I'm sure the kneejerk gays among us may say that makes me homophobic, well so be it...although I prefer to define it by my intentions, which is freedom for everyone within reason.
Ok so on to the controversial part....I am continually amazed that people state with absolute certainty that homosexuality is one thing or the other...genetics or environment...you can look at psychological or biology sources and they will clearly say the jury is out...no one knows with certainty YET, however, like just about any other phase of human development, it seems clear to me at least, that sexual orientation is a result of BOTH...some people may have genetic proclivities and these can either be modified by environment for or against becoming gay. So quite frankly YES, environment, especially in childhood is a pretty significant factor. To me, the phenomenon of "bi-sexuality" is simply people who are comfortable with both or those who are more experimental, and the facts would deomstrate people go in and out of this experimentalism all the time. If that's not a hint, a don't know what is.
Oh yes, and congrats to Quinto for "coming out". My wife and I had remarked on how he never appears in public with a woman. Not definitive but often a good indicator.
RAMA
Ok so on to the controversial part....I am continually amazed that people state with absolute certainty that homosexuality is one thing or the other...genetics or environment...you can look at psychological or biology sources and they will clearly say the jury is out...no one knows with certainty YET, however, like just about any other phase of human development, it seems clear to me at least, that sexual orientation is a result of BOTH...some people may have genetic proclivities and these can either be modified by environment for or against becoming gay. So quite frankly YES, environment, especially in childhood is a pretty significant factor. To me, the phenomenon of "bi-sexuality" is simply people who are comfortable with both or those who are more experimental, and the facts would deomstrate people go in and out of this experimentalism all the time. If that's not a hint, a don't know what is.
Oh yes, and congrats to Quinto for "coming out". My wife and I had remarked on how he never appears in public with a woman. Not definitive but often a good indicator.
RAMA
"Mastfest" just doesn't look like it's as much fun to say as "sausagefest."
Doesn't mean the attraction to the other sex goes away though.
It sounds much more proper and classy.
Dear me, besides the questionable clientele and decor, this sports bar in quite the mastfeast indeed.
As opposed to...
There's way too much cock in this dump.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like BS. If the biochemistry of homosexuals wouldn't react differently then there wouldn't be any homosexuals.
Why? She didn't react. Nothing is in the script. Nothing was filmed. There isn't even anything in the novelization to say Uhura was aroused at all. "Speculate" all you want, but if it's not in the film, it's all just fan chat.
Uhura had no response because no response was written for her.
How... not clever.
Quinto played a gay character in a short-lived series which ran on VH-1, just prior to his being cast as Sylar.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like BS. If the biochemistry of homosexuals wouldn't react differently then there wouldn't be any homosexuals.
If the biochemistry of homosexuals did react differently then it would mean that they aren't following the same physical laws as the rest of reality.
The way chemicals in the body react to one another is not altered by the mind of the of the person that the chemicals are reacting within. A+B=C. Always. Chemistry is pretty much an exact science, and when two chemicals are introduced into the same flask, they will react in a specific way, (regardless of how the flask might happen to feel about it).
Those participating in this discussion of biology and pheromones are not citing any peer-reviewed scientific publications that support their position.
In the first place, whether pheromones affect human sexuality has not been scientifically established, last time I checked. In the second place, some researchers claim there are chemical differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals (of course not that the laws of physics are different).
I encourage those taking a position to cite evidence supporting their position.
In the first place, whether pheromones affect human sexuality has not been scientifically established, last time I checked. In the second place, some researchers claim there are chemical differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals (of course not that the laws of physics are different).
I encourage those taking a position to cite evidence supporting their position.
Nothing I said in my last post could possibly be contested. Chemical interactions are ruled by the physical laws, period. If you require proof of this, I'm of the opinion that no amount of proof would convince you.
When exposed to an outside chemical agent, the chemical reactions within the body would be the same regardless of the person's orientation. Their mental response to this chemical reaction? Who knows? I've certainly not implied anything at all, much less anything that warrants providing a source.
And we do react to animal pheromones. The fact that fragrance companies spend tens of millions of dollars each year to collect the stuff is pretty strong evidence of that, don'tcha think?
When exposed to an outside chemical agent, the chemical reactions within the body would be the same regardless of the person's orientation. Their mental response to this chemical reaction? Who knows? I've certainly not implied anything at all, much less anything that warrants providing a source.
No. That we respond to them has pretty much been established. What's still under dispute is whether or not human pheromones exist; do we actually produce and respond to pheromones of our own, or do we just respond to the pheromones of others?CarbonCopy said:
And we do react to animal pheromones. The fact that fragrance companies spend tens of millions of dollars each year to collect the stuff is pretty strong evidence of that, don'tcha think?
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chardman, you've asserted is that if the reagents are the same, then the products are the same, which goes without saying.
What you haven't shown is that the reagents are all the same.
What you haven't shown is that the reagents are all the same.
No, spending money doesn't qualify as evidence for the existence of chemicals in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Neither due the claims of fragrance companies necessarily qualify as such evidence. Cite me something in such a journal, then we can talk.
You're asserting then, that the overall chemical reagents withing gays might be different from that of other humans? In that case, I believe that it is you who are making the extraordinary claim, and therefore you who needs to provide the evidence.
Wow, somehow I knew this was going to turn into a huge debate. I blame the one who insisted that homosexuals do not have a demeanor. They do. If you meet seven guys in a bar, you can always spot the ones who are homosexual. Why? Because of the way they act. Now I am in no way saying that they act "wrong" or "bad" or in some kind of "queer fashion" (no pun intended) But they act different. You can just tell. Now the ones you can't tell are the ones whom are bi, or in denial. You can't tell them apart because they act similar to both hetero and homo sexualities. I think I just invented a word...
Anyway, there is a huge Heterosexual Influance in America, but that's because... Well... Okay, I'll just get out and say it. BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE HETEROS THAN HOMOS! But anyone who believes there is still a problem in Society's eye is obviously blinded by their own prejudice. It's almost cool to admit you're gay. Especially around Hippy Liberals.
Anyhoo, I think it's awesome that someone can admit their feelings and sexual orientation. I support a future where that will no longer be any kind of issue. But making him some kind of martyr or spokesman is just plain silly. If we're talking about equality, then why hold homosexuals over heterosexuals? Or visa versa? The only point I was making was that I am glad he can make his statement about his orientation, but I do not believe we should blow it out of proportion and make it some kind of life changing event.
Anyway, there is a huge Heterosexual Influance in America, but that's because... Well... Okay, I'll just get out and say it. BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE HETEROS THAN HOMOS! But anyone who believes there is still a problem in Society's eye is obviously blinded by their own prejudice. It's almost cool to admit you're gay. Especially around Hippy Liberals.
Anyhoo, I think it's awesome that someone can admit their feelings and sexual orientation. I support a future where that will no longer be any kind of issue. But making him some kind of martyr or spokesman is just plain silly. If we're talking about equality, then why hold homosexuals over heterosexuals? Or visa versa? The only point I was making was that I am glad he can make his statement about his orientation, but I do not believe we should blow it out of proportion and make it some kind of life changing event.
wow, one wrong point after another.
Obviously one CAN'T "always" pick out the homosexual in the room or a lot of gays wouldn't be so successful at staying "in the closet." There are feminine-acting gays, very masculine gays, gays of all different kinds.
To say that anyone who thinks there is still an issue with discrimination against gays is biased by their own prejudices is just silly. Try coming out as gay in certain regions of the U.S. for example. It's still very much an issue in employment, too as well as other areas/
Finally, not many are suggesting that Quinto is some kind of noble hero or something, just that he might be a positive influence if he chooses to be.
No, I'm not making that claim.
Rather, Ivanka Savic et al. reported findings in 2005 published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, which show that the brains of homosexual men respond differently than heterosexual men to chemicals that might be pheromones.
This raises many questions, of course, and certainly calls into question the assumption that everyone's brain chemistry is physically completely identical irrespective of sexual orientation.
From http://www.pnas.org/content/102/20/7356:
Further references to this study are as follows.
From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/22/AR2008062201994.html:
From the abstract of the 2008 study at http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2008/06/13/0801566105.abstract.
The highlighted text supports both points I've made.
I'm not trying to derail this thread, and this is all I'm going to post on this subject here in this thread.
The point I'm trying to make is simply that evidence published in scientific journals supports views of what occurs in people's brains that are contrary to the assumptions presented by some posters in this thread. You asked for science, you got it.
Thank you.
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