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Question: Where is it explicitly said that Kirk took command immediately after Pike?

Was there a mention of Kirk being Captain of any other ships before Enterprise? It wouldn't surprise me if they make Kirk Captain of Discovery in season 3, maybe with Mccoy as CMO.
It depends on the source. Old comics say he commanded the USS Saladin prior to the Enterprise. Diane Carey's The First Adventure says Kirk was promoted to captain and given the Enterprise after taking command of the USS Lydia Sutherland during a crisis. There are others too, including a novel where Commander Kirk is in charge of a Miranda-class ship but I cannot recall the source.
 
Our starship CO heroes have curiously few previous commands before ending up with the ships seen in their respective series. No command is quoted for Janeway, although service aboard other ships at lower positions is mentioned. One command is quoted for Picard, along with service aboard that ship before the command, but no further commands or service. Sisko apparently never commanded any ships or installations, but was in charge of the Defiant project. No previous command or service is mentioned for Archer. And we know next to nothing about Georgiou, Lorca or Pike so far.

Timo Saloniemi

Lorca came from a family that made fortune cookies, served on USS Helios, then commanded a listening post on Tarsus IV during the Kodos incident. At some point he took command of USS Buran

Georgiou was previously on the USS Narbonne as XO, albeit briefly. She spent a long time in command on Shenzhou

Yes most of this stuff is from novels, not canon etc etc but this stuff is from Discovery novels and those seem to have their details knitted fairly tightly into the series.
 
So, Spock has to serve with Pike for 10 more years. If Pike stays on Discovery, Spock has to come with the package in order for his saying he served under Pike for 11 years to work. And Spock never says that entire time was on the Enterprise. nudge-nudge wink-wink

Spock doesn't even need to leave the Enterprise. Pike will be the captain of both ships by default, as long as he's the highest ranking officer present, which we at least know he was at the end of season 1. As long as both ships remain without a higher rank taking over, everyone on both ships is serving under Pike.
 
If we assume the association between Pike and Spock began when Spock enrolled in the Academy, that is, in 2246-47 or so (to give the rough graduation date of 2250 but without upstaging Kirk from that other timeline), then the 11 shared years could be up by DSC present time already...

Perhaps Spock splits ways with both Pike and the Enterprise on this very occasion, while Pike sticks with the ship for some five extra years?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Well, history is repeating itself once again. Frantic backpedaling seems to be the mandated way of making a spinoff spin...

But Pike and Spock's early years are free game for speculation of all sorts. It's convenient that basically all our evidence so far comes either from alternate timelines or from the secretive and outright disingenuous Spock himself. And it seems we're in for more of Spockian obfuscation and half-truths soon enough.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Not the lore. But this isn’t the topic for that
Explictly in the case of holograms and cloaking devices. It is Trek lore they have altered. Explicitly.

Doing so is fine, because it's just a TV show. The bizarre insistence that thay haven't is not, it's doublethink.
 
Wrt holograms? Not really - because there was no need to alter anything. Never in Trek has there been any suggestion that holograms would be out of the place in the 2250s.

Indeed, holograms have never been new in Trek. When they weren't there in ENT, they weren't. When they were there in TOS and TAS, they were. Nobody commented on them being new. A century later, some bickered over how much better exactly they were than their existing benchmark. But nobody claimed to have lived through such a dark period of time that there would not have been holograms yet.

There's nothing in Trek lore to go against the existence of holodecks in the 2250s. Lesser holographic consumer products such as mirrors and tabletop displays also are free to be sprinkled across the timeline. Holocomms are the odd product out, but the century-long gap could be accepted as a realistic quirk in consumer acceptance, much like those who praised the improving resolution of visual media in the 1980s were eager to settle for crappy news videos made by mobile phones in the 1990s.

As for cloaks, though... Yes, TOS itself did all the contradicting we'll ever need.

Timo Saloniemi
 
A lot of the inconsistencies can be explained away by looking at it from an in-universe character point of view.
 
The two objective stumbling blocks would be the failure to use holocomms when all our heroes always do massive amounts of communicating, and the failure to consider cloaks as a tactical possibility when the two main enemies, Romulans and Klingons, have both been shown dabbling in this key technology previously (even if retroactively).

Holocomms are a nuance. Cloaks are a real nuisance. Again because nowhere in Trek but "Balance of Terror" is the idea put forth that invisibility or visual stealth would be a new thing - indeed, all sorts of advanced aliens are practicing it all the time. So why does it take our heroes by surprise both when the Romulans do it in TOS, and when the Klingons do it in "The Vulcan Hello"? Although the latter offense is much lesser, as nobody pretends invisibility would be "theoretical" or unheard of. It's just deemed an unlikely option for Klingons, even if with unduly harsh words.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The two objective stumbling blocks would be the failure to use holocomms when all our heroes always do massive amounts of communicating, and the failure to consider cloaks as a tactical possibility when the two main enemies, Romulans and Klingons, have both been shown dabbling in this key technology previously (even if retroactively).

Holocomms are a nuance. Cloaks are a real nuisance. Again because nowhere in Trek but "Balance of Terror" is the idea put forth that invisibility or visual stealth would be a new thing - indeed, all sorts of advanced aliens are practicing it all the time. So why does it take our heroes by surprise both when the Romulans do it in TOS, and when the Klingons do it in "The Vulcan Hello"? Although the latter offense is much lesser, as nobody pretends invisibility would be "theoretical" or unheard of. It's just deemed an unlikely option for Klingons, even if with unduly harsh words.

Timo Saloniemi
As far as holocomms, I've heard others speculate that it could've been a security risk or just too computer intensive. Plus there are several shots in TNG that give the illusion that the main viewer is a hologram; I think it's even mentioned that it is in the Technical Manual.
 
There's nothing in Trek lore to go against the existence of holodecks in the 2250s.
Explicit dialogue in VOY: Flashback.
As for cloaks, though... Yes, TOS itself did all the contradicting we'll ever need.
How?
As far as holocomms, I've heard others speculate that it could've been a security risk or just too computer intensive.
If the show doesn't depict it, it doesn't mean anything.

Remember, a few months ago the party line was "Discovery holograms weren;t solid" despite Sarek leaning on a bench in the first episode. Now we have irrefutable proof they're solid from "Calypso".
 
Explicit dialogue in VOY: Flashback.
I tend to agree that the VOY line makes the holo tech in DSC incongruous for the era, but I suspect the response to this would be that the tech in DSC was less advanced and it was holograms being projected onto existing walls and things - like a holocorridor.

It annoys me but, like Spock, I’m trying to embrace technicalities - even if those technicalities play a very irritating game of chess.

Remember, a few months ago the party line was "Discovery holograms weren;t solid" despite Sarek leaning on a bench in the first episode. Now we have irrefutable proof they're solid from "Calypso".
I think what’s happening with this is that Star Trek is being taken *as a whole*

The era is irrelevant now.

Star Trek has holodecks and solid hard light holograms and holo communicators.

The fact that DS9 and VOY happened a century after the TOS period is less relevant than it used to be due to Star Trek’s apparently homogeneous presence in the zeitgeist.
 
I think what’s happening with this is that Star Trek is being taken *as a whole*

The era is irrelevant now.

Star Trek has holodecks and solid hard light holograms and holo communicators.

The fact that DS9 and VOY happened a century after the TOS period is less relevant than it used to be due to Star Trek’s apparently homogeneous presence in the zeitgeist.
I agree (and am curious if The Picard Show will be in any way different technologically). But they shouldn't claim it's the same world as TOS when there are so many obvious contradictions.
 
As far as holocomms, I've heard others speculate that it could've been a security risk or just too computer intensive. Plus there are several shots in TNG that give the illusion that the main viewer is a hologram; I think it's even mentioned that it is in the Technical Manual.

Non-canon though this may be, the novelverse pretty much agrees on that point. I'm pretty sure the DSC novels have said that holocomms are indeed too much of a resource hog and are being phased out. Same goes for why the holo-communicator from DS9 isn't widely used.
 
Calypso doesn't show solid holograms.
It shows us that Craft is extremely good at memorizing dance routines, and that Zora is capable of producing a lifelike image that can also follow said dance moves with a human partner.

And somebody else in this very thread produced quotes from TOS (Kirk) debunking the idea that holograms weren't being used or were unknown in complexity by that time.
(as well as TAS showing us a version of a holodeck several steps below the TNG ones)
:cool:
 
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