Question: Where is it explicitly said that Kirk took command immediately after Pike?

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I'm not necessarily doubting it WAS explicitly said, but I don't know for sure that it was. I know we all (including myself) assume that it is the case that Kirk took over directly from Pike; I'm just looking for the explicit on-screen information that backs up this assumption.

I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than I could point me to the line(s) of dialogue or other on-screen information and from which episode(s) or movie which tell us the following: In the Prime Universe, the Enterprise was commanded by Pike, then Kirk, with no other commanding officer in between.

"The Menagerie" might implicitly tell us this. Kirk says that he met Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain, and then we see the video record of Pike commanding 13 years prior, AND we are told that Spock served with Pike for several years...but all of that doesn't necessarily mean that Kirk took command from Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. It seemed to me there was room in the dialogue of The Menagerie for another unspoken Captain (or Captains) to have been in between....

....Unless I missed something in the dialogue, which is why I'm asking the question.

Maybe it's in Spock's information? -- i.e., is there explicit information that Spock served on the Enterprise under Pike, then under Kirk immediately after that, without Spock ever leaving the Enterprise in between? Or maybe explicit information about the Enterprise on TNG or some other show, listing all of its captains? I vaguely remember a monitor display that might have had all of the Captains of the Enterprise listed -- or am I making that up?

As for how this relates to DSC: I'm not doubting that Pike could appear on DSC as a temporary commanding officer of the Discovery while still "officially" being the commanding officer of the Enterprise......I'm just wondering how long he can stay.

If someone posts something obvious that I completely missed, I apologize in advance for this question.
Thanks!

 

[Lord Garth]

Spock says he served under Pike for 11 years. If Spock was born in 2230, that makes him 24 in "The Cage" (2254). Amanda says Sarek and Spock haven't spoken as father and son for 18 years in "Journey to Babel" (2267), since Spock joined the Academy. That puts Spock's time at the Academy from 2249 to 2253. Or ages 19 to 23. Sounds like a normal age for him to be at the Academy and puts his serving on the Enterprise at one year in "The Cage", if the Enterprise was his first assignment after graduating. For the sake of argument, let's say it was. It doesn't make much difference, one way or another.

So, Spock has to serve with Pike for 10 more years. If Pike stays on Discovery, Spock has to come with the package in order for his saying he served under Pike for 11 years to work. And Spock never says that entire time was on the Enterprise. nudge-nudge wink-wink

I guess it all comes to down to whether or not they want to keep Spock around too. But if he was already a Second Officer on the Enterprise as "The Cage" would suggest, while Pike and Number One were both on Talos IV, that would push Burnham out of her position as Second Officer, meaning that she can't be one step underneath Saru.

I think it's better if Burnham and Saru are close in pecking order, to keep the friendly professional rivalry intact. So -- at some point -- Spock has to go (because there's no place for him), and so does Pike.

 

[Kor]

I'm not necessarily doubting it WAS explicitly said, but I don't know for sure that it was. I know we all (including myself) assume that it is the case that Kirk took over directly from Pike; I'm just looking for the explicit on-screen information that backs up this assumption.

I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than I could point me to the line(s) of dialogue or other on-screen information and from which episode(s) or movie which tell us the following: In the Prime Universe, the Enterprise was commanded by Pike, then Kirk, with no other commanding officer in between.

"The Menagerie" might implicitly tell us this. Kirk says that he met Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain, and then we see the video record of Pike commanding 13 years prior, AND we are told that Spock served with Pike for 10 years...but all of that doesn't necessarily mean that Kirk took command from Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. It seemed to me there was room in the dialogue of The Menagerie for another unspoken Captain (or Captains) to have been in between....

....Unless I missed something in the dialogue, which is why I'm asking the question.

Maybe it's in Spock's information? -- i.e., is there explicit information that Spock served on the Enterprise under Pike, then under Kirk immediately after that, without Spock ever leaving the Enterprise in between? Or maybe explicit information about the Enterprise on TNG or some other show, listing all of its captains? I vaguely remember a monitor display that might have had all of the Captains of the Enterprise listed -- or am I making that up?

As for how this relates to DSC: I'm not doubting that Pike could appear on DSC as a temporary commanding officer of the Discovery while still "officially" being the commanding officer of the Enterprise......I'm just wondering how long he can stay.

If someone posts something obvious that I completely missed, I apologize in advance for this question.
Thanks!

As the final and definitive answer to this question, "The Menagerie, Part 1" has the following exchange (as transcribed at chakoteya.net):

MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.
KIRK: I took over the Enterprise from him. Spock served with him for several years.

Kor

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

As the final and definitive answer to this question, "The Menagerie, Part 1" has the following exchange (as transcribed at chakoteya.net):

MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.
KIRK: I took over the Enterprise from him. Spock served with him for several years.

Kor

Thank You!
Maybe I should have just gone to the episode itself, because the source I use for scripts is missing that.

My info says:
Mendez: You ever met Chris Pike?
Kirk: When he was promoted to fleet captain.
Mendez: Big, handsome man-- vital, active.
Kirk: Spock served with him for several years.

 

[Kor]

It's strange that a script source would be missing that portion of dialog.

These episodes have kind of been burned into my memory because back when the TOS two-episode individual DVDs were on the market and I was a kid in school and couldn't afford a lot of media, "The Menagerie, Parts 1 and 2" was one of the few DVDs that I owned, so I watched it over and over again.

Kor

 

[Timo]

Of course, given a pressing reason, we can argue there was a CO between Pike and Kirk.

After all, the discussion is about Pike, not about other skippers - and the Enterprise serves as the one outstanding connection between Pike and Kirk, the one worth bringing up when Mendez wonders whether Kirk has even met the man.

Kirk took over the ship eventually. Pike held the ship initially. The rest is just details. And possible writer intent, but we need not be concerned with that. And let's not forget that this is the same conversation in which it is possible to get the impression that Pike and Kirk were born in the same year - even though the dramatic intent is to suggest that they were the same age when their respective Talosian adventures would happen. We can't get stuck with literal interpretations of the grammar involved...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

Thank You!
Maybe I should have just gone to the episode itself, because the source I use for scripts is missing that.

My info says:
Mendez: You ever met Chris Pike?
Kirk: When he was promoted to fleet captain.
Mendez: Big, handsome man-- vital, active.
Kirk: Spock served with him for several years.

If they want to have an Enterprise CO between Pike and Kirk, a line of dialog isn't going to stop them. Much like a line of dialog from "Balance of Terror" didn't stop them from having cloaking devices.

 

[XCV330]

Of course, given a pressing reason, we can argue there was a CO between Pike and Kirk.

Could have been an interim captain, but its pretty clear from the dialogue there was a handover. might even have been a ceremony, since the Kelvinverse shows the exact dialogue of a traditional navy handover ceremony "I relieve you sir" and "I am relieved" (technically it's I STAND relieved, but come on, its Pike, what can you do)

 

[Tuskin38]

Much like a line of dialog from "Balance of Terror" didn't stop them from having cloaking devices.

Yeah, Enterprise did that first.

 

[Kor]

I suppose it's possible that Pike and Spock were only on the Enterprise around the time of "The Cage," then once more when Kirk took over command, and all the rest of the time, Pike and Spock were away serving together on side missions and a different captain was assigned to the Enterprise every other week or so.

Kor

 

[Tuskin38]

Doubt Pike is going to stay on Discovery past Season 2.

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, Enterprise did that first.

Just because someone else flubbed it doesn't mean it should be dismissed.

 

[Tuskin38]

Just because someone else flubbed it doesn't mean it should be dismissed.

They did ignore it in Season 4.

Spock's line can be easily worked around anyways. The Romulan device might work differently from the Klingon ones.

For example, the Klingon Cloak is not perfect, they've shown it flicker while in flight in DSC.

 

[BillJ]

They did ignore it in Season 4.

Spock's line can be easily worked around anyways. The Romulan device might work differently from the Klingon ones.

For example, the Klingon Cloak is not perfect, they've shown it flicker while in flight in DSC.

It wouldn't be "theoretical" if it had already been seen used in practical applications. Beyond that, when they're discussing breaking the cloak, they use almost the same wording as Spock does in "Balance...".

 

[Tim Thomason]

I suppose it's possible that Pike and Spock were only on the Enterprise around the time of "The Cage," then once more when Kirk took over command, and all the rest of the time, Pike and Spock were away serving together on side missions and a different captain was assigned to the Enterprise every other week or so.

Kor

Of course, because Pike was only a lieutenant at the time. [/Timo Mode]

 

[Timo]

We do need a big event between "The Cage" and DSC S1 to elevate Pike to the celebrated status and the full |:| sleeve braid. Such an event might also elevate Pike out of that moldy little starship that was considered fit for people with | on the sleeve. Except we now know it didn't.

On the other hand, we explicitly see Pike abandon NCC-1701 now, and will see an adventure where Pike and Spock serve together without the NCC-1701 for a while. So the flood gates are open.

On the third hand, the Abrams movies plausibly present an opening for an association between Spock and Pike that begins much earlier than we might otherwise have thought. Pike is some sort of an recruiter, Spock teaches at the Academy. So we get to distribute the 11 years between Spock's Academy entry and Kirk becoming Spock's CO, not between Spock's graduation and Kirk gaining command of the NCC-1701. Which means we can, and perhaps ought to, do gaps of all sorts.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Even if it was explicitly said, if the Disco people wanted to change it they would, just like they have everything else.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

So, what I’m hearing is: Michael Burnham will take over command of the Enterprise after Pike but before Kirk - which is why Spock never mentioned her? Because everyone already knew her?

Looking forward to that arc in season 4 of DSC

 

[Cyrus]

Was there a mention of Kirk being Captain of any other ships before Enterprise? It wouldn't surprise me if they make Kirk Captain of Discovery in season 3, maybe with Mccoy as CMO.

 

[Timo]

No mention either way. In "Where No Man", Kirk says he requested Gary Mitchell for his first command, but we learn nothing from this, as Mitchell is seen aboard Kirk's command. So it may be Kirk's first, or his sixth, and Kirk may have gotten his wish, or then not.

Our starship CO heroes have curiously few previous commands before ending up with the ships seen in their respective series. No command is quoted for Janeway, although service aboard other ships at lower positions is mentioned. One command is quoted for Picard, along with service aboard that ship before the command, but no further commands or service. Sisko apparently never commanded any ships or installations, but was in charge of the Defiant project. No previous command or service is mentioned for Archer. And we know next to nothing about Georgiou, Lorca or Pike so far.

Timo Saloniemi