Does that include the sly drive-bys?
Question re: Original f/x vs. TOS-R...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
I find it tiresome that if someone doesn't embrace something new wholeheartedly then they're just to be dismissed as irrelevant. Not everything new is automatically better. If you like something new then good for you. Enjoy. But not automatically embracing the new doesn't make someone flawed or irrelevant as some try to claim.
This thread was supposed to be about those examples of original f/x that some preferred over the new version. It wasn't supposed to be about someone trying to claim or assert we're wrong or flawed for preferring something original.
This thread was supposed to be about those examples of original f/x that some preferred over the new version. It wasn't supposed to be about someone trying to claim or assert we're wrong or flawed for preferring something original.
I've learned that there are certain posters you just can't take seriously in any kind of debate on this forum.
The next one who does this personal crap will pull a warning.A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
This whole debate about TOS vs. TOS-R reminds of the debates that were going on a few decades ago about CD's versus vinyl. Essentially people were divided into two camps: those who preferred the crispier enhanced sound, and those who enjoyed the charm of the crackles and skips.
I can relate to both and I agree that in some cases the TOS-R versions have some scenes where the CGI is way too overpowering and yes, maybe some of these enhancements could have been better accomplished by using improved models and other non-CGI F/X techniques.
On the other hand, I think it is important to keep in mind that if we want TOS to continue to have a strong appeal to future generations, the choice of having the enhanced versions needs to be available. If great artists like Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Janis, or (fill in the blank) were not available in CD, MP3, and as Youtube videos, anyone presently under the age of 25 might never be aware of this great music. Ditto for great TV of the same era. In my opinion of course
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I can relate to both and I agree that in some cases the TOS-R versions have some scenes where the CGI is way too overpowering and yes, maybe some of these enhancements could have been better accomplished by using improved models and other non-CGI F/X techniques.
On the other hand, I think it is important to keep in mind that if we want TOS to continue to have a strong appeal to future generations, the choice of having the enhanced versions needs to be available. If great artists like Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Janis, or (fill in the blank) were not available in CD, MP3, and as Youtube videos, anyone presently under the age of 25 might never be aware of this great music. Ditto for great TV of the same era. In my opinion of course
.This whole debate about TOS vs. TOS-R reminds of the debates that were going on a few decades ago about CD's versus vinyl. Essentially people were divided into two camps: those who preferred the crispier enhanced sound, and those who enjoyed the charm of the crackles and skips.
I can relate to both and I agree that in some cases the TOS-R versions have some scenes where the CGI is way too overpowering and yes, maybe some of these enhancements could have been better accomplished by using improved models and other non-CGI F/X techniques.
On the other hand, I think it is important to keep in mind that if we want TOS to continue to have a strong appeal to future generations, the choice of having the enhanced versions needs to be available. If great artists like Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Janis, or (fill in the blank) were not available in CD, MP3, and as Youtube videos, anyone presently under the age of 25 might never be aware of this great music. Ditto for great TV of the same era. In my opinion of course
It's not quite the same. If you were to hold to your analogy, it would be like people saying they didn't want TOS put on any format beyond the original film or broadcast tapes that were delivered to the networks. A better analogy would be to compare it to sections of the band's songs that you mentioned being rerecorded using modern instruments and techniques. That actually did happen, especially at the beginning of the CD era. I used to have a CD of Chuck Berry's Greatest Hits that had his vocal tracks laid over newly recorded music. I had no idea; nothing on the CD indicated what has been done. Years later, a newer release came out that had the original music on it, and once I heard that I sold my old one and bought it. The rerecorded music was so lifeless compared to the original, and more importantly, it didn't fit. It didn't fit the style, the era, or the vocals that were laid over it.
I think that sums up the issues that many have with the TOS-R effects. Many of the shots don't match the tone or style of the live action.
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
Can you offer some examples of these mismatched shots, please?
The Enterprise firing its phasers in "Who Mourns For Adonais?" The original shot is so dramatic: you're looking up at the Enterprise as it fires downward. That shot enhanced by the music is just cool!
The new version is technically polished but just looks stale and lacking in drama. The whole thing looks like it's just thrown together.
The original shot from "The Cage" (and seen a few other times later) of the Enterprise banking towards you. It's crude by today's standards, but it's an awesome shot. Sadly something got lost in the translation when they redid it for the TOS-R version of "The Cage." It lust looks flat and dark and too grey. The feeling is gone.
The new version is technically polished but just looks stale and lacking in drama. The whole thing looks like it's just thrown together.
The original shot from "The Cage" (and seen a few other times later) of the Enterprise banking towards you. It's crude by today's standards, but it's an awesome shot. Sadly something got lost in the translation when they redid it for the TOS-R version of "The Cage." It lust looks flat and dark and too grey. The feeling is gone.
Well, anytime they go from the styrofoam rocks of a soundstage planet set to a well rendered orbit shot of a planet. Sure, the planet looks way better, but the original planet "fit" with the styrofoam rocks.
Think of the reverse of this. Imagine ST09...shot exactly the same, same set design, displays, and so on, but every time they went to an exterior f/x shot it was done with 1960s television effects. It wouldn't match, and it doesnt match ether way you cut it.
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
That's a good point but if anything that makes the case for the TOS-R to have gone further and enhanced the planet settings and the look of the aliens. I refer to my other post about the Tholians (I don't know how to link a post from a different thread though).
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
I hear what you're saying and again, I am a die-hard TOS-only kind of Trek fan but I really do prefer the enhancements in those episodes.
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I sort of agree with you. Personally, if I had been in charge of the project I would have gone about it in a very different way. However, there are times, seeing what we did get that I wish that they had just gone whole hog and given us awesome mid-2000 cgi effects. Either way it doesn't really effect me. I've got an episode on right now, on blu ray with the original effects. I'm happy!
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
I sort of agree with you. Personally, if I had been in charge of the project I would have gone about it in a very different way. However, there are times, seeing what we did get that I wish that they had just gone whole hog and given us awesome mid-2000 cgi effects. Either way it doesn't really effect me. I've got an episode on right now, on blu ray with the original effects. I'm happy!
Yes, they should have gone whole hog. I am happy to have some enhancements nevertheless, and the originals will always be there anyways.
I haven't made the jump yet to Blu-Ray. So just to be clear, the TOS-R is NOT available in Blu-Ray but only in regular old DVD? I asked this on another thread, but no one answered.
TOS-R has been available in standard DVD for quite a while now.
The selling point of the Blu-Ray sets is that they have both the original effects and the CGI versions.
The selling point of the Blu-Ray sets is that they have both the original effects and the CGI versions.
I sort of agree with you. Personally, if I had been in charge of the project I would have gone about it in a very different way. However, there are times, seeing what we did get that I wish that they had just gone whole hog and given us awesome mid-2000 cgi effects. Either way it doesn't really effect me. I've got an episode on right now, on blu ray with the original effects. I'm happy!
Yes, they should have gone whole hog. I am happy to have some enhancements nevertheless, and the originals will always be there anyways.
I haven't made the jump yet to Blu-Ray. So just to be clear, the TOS-R is NOT available in Blu-Ray but only in regular old DVD? I asked this on another thread, but no one answered.
You get both TOS-R and the originals in beautiful 1080p. Buy them!
I think the original shot of the shuttle departing the shuttle bay in Galileo Seven looked much better than the new shot, shakey starfield notwithstanding.
My expectation was that the art director would have given guidance to the artists to replicate the layouts and compositions of the visuals as much as possible. This would be in keeping with the original intent. You preserve as much as possible while tastefully introducing enhancements/improvements. But as Warped9 pointed out, they changed some shots significantly. I wish they hadn't gone quite that far. I don't mind additional footage imagined and corrections to previous mistakes, but they shouldn't substitute dramatic changes from the original. And of course, there's the contrast between earlier and later work, the latter being pretty good and some of the earlier appearing as lesser quality CGI.
One of the things I thought was odd was how they changed so many of the fly-bys for no reason. TOS had some fly-bys that looked like the ship would run right over you---a very dramatic and effective shot. And yet TOS-R seemed to do away with those or at least many of them. I can understand them looking to introduce some new elements, but why do away with something that worked really well when you could have reproduced it in cgi so easily?
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