Question re: Original f/x vs. TOS-R...

[scotpens]

. . . Why wouldn't the 1701 be able to spin in place? They have engines that can propel them near the speed of light in normal space; and also have engines that can warp space? We're not talking chemically fueled propulsion.

. . .Again, opinions are subjective; but in all honestly, anytine they show an FTL capable craft having to bank like its resisting gravity or flying in an atmosphere, I just laugh. Star Fleet ahips must have tech that can cancel inertia and the effects of acceleration. If they didn't the crews would be paste on the hull even at impuse speeds and acceleration.

I think we’re all aware of that. It isn’t a matter of actual physics; it's a question of making the ship look like a large, massive object, which means it should move and react as if it has considerable mass and inertia.

After all, the stock Enterprise-in-planetary-orbit shots didn’t look the least bit “real” — they made the ship look hundreds of miles long and tilted 90 degrees with respect to the planet’s surface. But those shots were beautifully composed and they gave the ship a sense of both mass and graceful movement.

 

[Maurice]

The DDM episode was the biggest disappointment for me, personally, because it was the one episode they should've been able to knock out of the ballpark while at the same time maintaining the look of the show's photography. Instead, what we got was a DDM that looked like a rock, with an energy/blast effect that had no sense of power or heat to it. The maneuvering of the ships was badly done and--as typical on TOS-R--the ships movements convey no feeling of mass. For instance, when the DDM turns off its tractor beam on the Enterprise, which is straining to pull away, you'd expect to see the ship lurch away, not spin around in place.

Why wouldn't the 1701 be able to spin in place? They have engines that can propel them near the speed of light in normal space; and also have engines that can warp space? We're not talking chemically fueled propulsion.

Ever play tug of war? You pull as hard as you can. What happens when the other team lets go? All that force you've been applying to pull in one direction is now applied to yourself and back you go. That's what I meant. The ship is full-power trying to pull away, and the DDM suddenly disengages the tractor beam. The ship should have shot into reverse, not spun in place and then slowly pulled off.

And as for ship movement; are you really trying to claim the wobble of the AMT kit U.S.S. Constellation was somehow done better?

Try reading what I wrote instead of knee-jerk reacting to what you think I wrote. I said that the remastered DDM episode was a disappointment "because it was the one episode they should've been able to knock out of the ballpark while at the same time maintaining the look of the show's photography." I wasn't comparing individual shots. I was relating disappointment that what they did was so middling given what they could have done.

 

[Forbin]

And as for ship movement; are you really trying to claim the wobble of the AMT kit U.S.S. Constellation was somehow done better?

Why would even think he meant that?

If he was trying to claim that, he would have actually written, "I hereby claim the wobble of the AMT kit U.S.S. Constellation was done better." When in reality, he never even mentioned the wobble of the AMT kit U.S.S. Constellation.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Hey, ya can't let the actual posts get in the way of the agenda....

 

[RAMA]

The DDM episode was the biggest disappointment for me, personally, because it was the one episode they should've been able to knock out of the ballpark while at the same time maintaining the look of the show's photography. Instead, what we got was a DDM that looked like a rock, with an energy/blast effect that had no sense of power or heat to it. The maneuvering of the ships was badly done and--as typical on TOS-R--the ships movements convey no feeling of mass. For instance, when the DDM turns off its tractor beam on the Enterprise, which is straining to pull away, you'd expect to see the ship lurch away, not spin around in place.

Why wouldn't the 1701 be able to spin in place? They have engines that can propel them near the speed of light in normal space; and also have engines that can warp space? We're not talking chemically fueled propulsion.

Ever play tug of war? You pull as hard as you can. What happens when the other team lets go? All that force you've been applying to pull in one direction is now applied to yourself and back you go. That's what I meant. The ship is full-power trying to pull away, and the DDM suddenly disengages the tractor beam. The ship should have shot into reverse, not spun in place and then slowly pulled off.

And as for ship movement; are you really trying to claim the wobble of the AMT kit U.S.S. Constellation was somehow done better?

Try reading what I wrote instead of knee-jerk reacting to what you think I wrote. I said that the remastered DDM episode was a disappointment "because it was the one episode they should've been able to knock out of the ballpark while at the same time maintaining the look of the show's photography." I wasn't comparing individual shots. I was relating disappointment that what they did was so middling given what they could have done.

The vast majority of the reviews said just that...they knocked it out of the park.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

The vast majority of the reviews said just that...they knocked it out of the park.

I wish I was able to rely on reviews to tell me what my opinions are. Life would be so much easier with independent thought eliminated from the equation.

 

[Forbin]

The vast majority of the reviews said just that...they knocked it out of the park.

I wish I was able to rely on reviews to tell me what my opinions are. Life would be so much easier with independent thought eliminated from the equation.

Luckily we have a prime example of that mindset right here in these threads!

 

[HarryM]

I actually watched the -R version of Doomsday Machine last night. I think for the most part the improvements worked. There was just one scene that I didn't really like and that was the low-level attack on the DM, just too airplane-ish for me. It can be somewhat forgiven in that Decker wanted to hit it at "point-blank range" so they would get as close as possible.

I liked how the Connie sort of wobbled and careened in control difficulties around as she was heading into the DM, a nod to the original models wobbling? The DM itself, they replicated it pretty closely, they even incorporated what was obviously papier-mâché strips or tape in the original and made it look like some armor plating.

The Connie looked great, fantastic looking damage to it, FAR improved over the burned AMT model.

I just don't get all the grief, sorry. Some of the liberties they've taken in other episodes I don't agree with, this one I really liked.

 

[BillJ]

I just don't get all the grief, sorry. Some of the liberties they've taken in other episodes I don't agree with, this one I really liked.

Which is what most people here are doing, sharing their opinions on the changes made for TOS-R. You seem like most other folks around here... some changes worked for you, others didn't.

 

[Maurice]

re DDM I thought the Constellation looked fine. I think the DDM itself was unimaginatively realized and it's energy effects weakly executed. The poor animation of the starships' maneuvering remains my biggest complaint. I realize I'm a minority opinion here, but, hey, I'm fine being a minority, especially when I'm right.

 

[Gepard]

I'm fine being a minority, especially when I'm right.

Damn straight.

 

[BillJ]

re DDM I thought the Constellation looked fine. I think the DDM itself was unimaginatively realized and it's energy effects weakly executed. The poor animation of the starships' maneuvering remains my biggest complaint. I realize I'm a minority opinion here, but, hey, I'm fine being a minority, especially when I'm right.

Based on what I'm seeing here and discussions I've had with friends, I'm not so sure you're in the minority.

 

[Gepard]

Now, now. RAMA told us we are, so it must be true.

 

[Forbin]

Ya know, just thinking story-wise, if the Enterprise ahad just stayed BEHIND the PK, the PK never could have gotten off a shot at them! It's weapon had a little off-boresight capability, but it could shoot backwards, and the damn thing CAN'T be more maneuverable than a starship.

As for the new effect, the only thing I hated was the strafing run, which made the E too Star-Wars-fighter-like for my tastes. And in light of my above comment, was even stupider - it would have made more sense to stand off behind the thing, match speed and pour phasers into it, than zip down the side popping little gnat-bite shots at random spots.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

I really like the TOS-R improvements and I am considering packing up my TOS originals and burying them in my backyard so that they can be dug up in a 1000 years as valuable archaeological finds.

I was just watching the improved Tholian Web, and I like the redesigned ships and the effects except I can't help but wonder why they didn't improve the look of the Tholian commander who warns Spock. I mean, we have these really cool looking ships but the aliens still look like the product of some cheap disco-esque acid trip.

 

[RAMA]

The vast majority of the reviews said just that...they knocked it out of the park.

I wish I was able to rely on reviews to tell me what my opinions are. Life would be so much easier with independent thought eliminated from the equation.

You already know my personal opinion, and since the people on this forum also speak in terms of their opinion being everyone elses its always good to let you know its not...far from it.

Anyway, you only need to rely on MY reviews.

I really like the TOS-R improvements and I am considering packing up my TOS originals and burying them in my backyard so that they can be dug up in a 1000 years as valuable archaeological finds.

I was just watching the improved Tholian Web, and I like the redesigned ships and the effects except I can't help but wonder why they didn't improve the look of the Tholian commander who warns Spock. I mean, we have these really cool looking ships but the aliens still look like the product of some cheap disco-esque acid trip.

I do wish they had used the Ent style Tholians. I remarked on the psychedelic look of the original Tholians and the "purists" didn't seem know what I was talking about.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

The vast majority of the reviews said just that...they knocked it out of the park.

I wish I was able to rely on reviews to tell me what my opinions are. Life would be so much easier with independent thought eliminated from the equation.

You already know my personal opinion, and since the people on this forum also speak in terms of their opinion being everyone elses its always good to let you know its not...far from it.

RAMA

So for you to understand that someone is talking about their personal opinion, they have to tag their posts as such? Because the only person here claiming that their opinion should shared by everyone else, is you.

 

[RAMA]

I wish I was able to rely on reviews to tell me what my opinions are. Life would be so much easier with independent thought eliminated from the equation.

You already know my personal opinion, and since the people on this forum also speak in terms of their opinion being everyone elses its always good to let you know its not...far from it.

RAMA

So for you to understand that someone is talking about their personal opinion, they have to tag their posts as such? Because the only person here claiming that their opinion should shared by everyone else, is you.

It depends on how its termed. Most of the posters I'm talking about take such things as a given, and theirs is the only proper view. Despite you inferring my posts incorrectly, I never have said my view was the only view. What I have said is that the TOS-R is technically better in every way, and this is a technological FACT.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

It depends on how its termed. Most of the posters I'm talking about take such things as a given, and theirs is the only proper view. Despite you inferring my posts incorrectly, I never have said my view was the only view. What I have said is that the TOS-R is technically better in every way, and this is a technological FACT.

Once again, you seem to be the only one dealing in absolutes. Then resorting to name calling when people don't agree.

 

[A beaker full of death]

TOS-R is technically better in every way, and this is a technological FACT.

Hardly. They're more advanced. Not "technically better." World of difference there. In fact, some of those effects are prime examples of the old tech adage, "Garbage in, garbage out."