Question on Richard Arnold and his role

[Therin of Andor]

Has Arnold ever shared his thoughts on the later seasons of TNG, and the post-TNG shows? Has he even watched them?

Post September 1991, Richard gave slideshows on all TNG and VGR seasons at his annual Australian convention appearances. Usually three slides per episode. From memory, the DS9 team did not supply him with episode slides, although he did have some promotional ones he used.

Yes, he kept pace with every new episode and movie. He often brought trailers for each new movie when they became available, and sat at a hucksters' table to sell enamelled pins from Lincoln Enterprises, and sets of trading cards as each new set became available. Also brought items for the charity auctions, such as actor-signed photos, rare publicity materials and autographed trading cards. It's my understanding that he attended at least 40 conventions a year.

I don't recall him being overly critical of things, except to point out the predictable things that Roddenberry would have probably disliked, such as key characters missing from group poses on comic covers, Peter David's tie-ins, Kirk hating Klingons in ST VI, Kira hating Cardassians, DS9 ending in a war arc, and the writers' bible descriptions of Quark and Neelix (described as "ugly aliens", which he said Gene R. would have objected to).

Re the Kelvinverse, RA has said, "I love the Abrams films, because it was canon until the point of the Kelvin incident [in which the destruction of the U.S.S. Kelvin creates an alternative quantum universe], and then it’s a new timelime. He can do anything he wants in that timeline. He’s got a free slate...", 2017.
https://paleymatters.org/trekkin-like-the-doodah-man-25daf6f4e77d

There are other interviews with RA online.

https://www.missionlogpodcast.com/the-one-with-richard-arnold/

http://startrekfactcheck.blogspot.com/2015/12/fact-check-richard-arnold-on-mission-log.html

https://www.trektoday.com/news/080401_01.shtml

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.startrek/c/9iZwyMpYztk

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Richard_Arnold

More than that, knowing how he felt about tie in continuity I wonder how he'd feel about the continuing litverse for the last 20 some years. Probably made his eyes bleed

After September 1991, he did not read them.

Neither did he follow the fan films, although he was present at the banquet at which I presented "Starship Exeter: The Savage Empire", where he was pleasantly surprised by its quality.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I’ve always heard about the ‘89 memo, but never seen or read it. Does it exist for perusal?

It was sent to the tie-in publishers. It is quoted, in part, in DC Comics' TOS Series II, Issue #1, lettercol by Robert Greenberger.

 

[Lonemagpie]

In my experience, there are two kinds of people in these kind of positions: the folks who regard the tie-in books as a necessary evil and see their jobs as damage control; and the folks who are enthusiastic about the books and supportive of the authors, while still making sure the books fit in with the larger franchise.

Arnold was neither; he was the kind of fan who got promoted to BNF status in a position of power and it went to his head as a license to impose his vision and opinions as the only ones allowed to matter. Also is a complete twat.

 

[Christopher]

I do find that interesting. Basically anything Roddenberry wasn't directly involved with on a day to day basis wasn't considered 'canon' in their eyes. Which is a bunch of BS. Paramount owned Star Trek so the 'canon' is whatever they said it was, not what Arnold thought it was.

As I keep pointing out, nobody has to say something is canonical. "Canon" just means a complete body of works; the canon is the series (or group of interconnected series) as a whole. So naturally any installment of that series is part of that canon by definition, except in unusual cases where it's explicitly not meant to be (e.g. an "imaginary story" or something). The problem is that Roddenberry and Arnold went overboard on applying that exception, trying to throw out everything that GR didn't personally approve of (even though nobody else in the productions was paying attention), and so created the false perception among fans that canon was a status that had to be assigned on a case-by-case basis by someone in authority. And it frustrates me that their warped misuse of the word has been accepted as the "true" meaning of canon by fandom for the past three decades.

 

[Damian]

The problem is that Roddenberry and Arnold went overboard on applying that exception, trying to throw out everything that GR didn't personally approve of (even though nobody else in the productions was paying attention), and so created the false perception among fans that canon was a status that had to be assigned on a case-by-case basis by someone in authority.

It's a shame they were given the keys to dictating to tie ins what they could/could not do (mostly could not I guess). I imagine it stifled a lot of creativity during that period.

As you noted, those involved with producing on screen stuff could ignore them, but unfortunately those writing tie in fiction didn't have the luxury.

I guess we should be thankful the current PTBs take a more, er, enlightened attituded about tie ins. It appears they are more interested in what tie ins can do, instead of what they can't do.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Arnold was neither; he was the kind of fan who got promoted to BNF status in a position of power and it went to his head as a license to impose his vision and opinions as the only ones allowed to matter.

"BNF"? British National Formulary? Backus-Naur Form?

Also is a complete twat.

Don't mince . . . you know the rest.

 

[Lonemagpie]

"BNF"? British National Formulary? Backus-Naur Form?
t.

Big Name Fan. It may be a somewhat British term, I guess, but specifically means one who is elevated unwisely to being a source of all wisdom, and uses that position in a wagging the dog kind of way. Ian Levine would be a UK equivalent...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Big Name Fan. It may be a somewhat British term, I guess, but specifically means one who is elevated unwisely to being a source of all wisdom, and uses that position in a wagging the dog kind of way. Ian Levine would be a UK equivalent...

I don't think it's exclusively a British term, but it's not often found in American media fandom. In lit fandom, though, I can think of several people who were BNFs.

I've sometimes considered who was actively worse for their fandom -- Levine or Arnold. Ultimately, Arnold was more of a destructive force for Star Trek than Levine was for Doctor Who. His influence ran deeper and affected more.

 

[Desert Kris]

I was wondering if Ian Levine would come up as a parallel example. Continuity "experts" is exactly what every franchise needs.

I like Doctor Who writer Terrance Dick's philosophy of "continuity is what you can remember at the time." I like the irreverence of that.

 

[TheAlmanac]

It's a shame they were given the keys to dictating to tie ins what they could/could not do (mostly could not I guess). I imagine it stifled a lot of creativity during that period.

One of the other ironies of Richard Arnold's approach is that by insisting on standalone tie-ins, they could no longer build upon each other and thus inevitably reduced engagement (for the same reason you don't get a robust fandom from a single episode of a TV series). Then again, Arnold's antipathy towards the tie-ins would probably consider this a feature, not a bug, despite it working against the franchise owner's business interests.

I was wondering if Ian Levine would come up as a parallel example.

I also thought of him as a parallel pariah and meant to mention him earlier, as yet another data point for how claims to authority about canon were widespread back in the day--it's not as if Ian Levine was making any of his pronouncements in the Eighties based on what Richard Arnold was doing (especially since Levine rose to prominence first). If they're aware of each other at all, I imagine that awareness would've only happened much later.

 

[veritech]

So what was Richard Arnold's beef with Peter David tie-ins?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

So what was Richard Arnold's beef with Peter David tie-ins?

That's a good question, and even Peter David doesn't know, as I understand it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's a shame they were given the keys to dictating to tie ins what they could/could not do (mostly could not I guess).

Roddenberry fought to have tighter tie-in approval in the lead-up to TNG after previous bitter experiences with the Franz Joseph "Technical Manual" and blueprints. The contract with Joseph, signed at a time when TOS was a dead property, gave Joseph himself the right to license out his own designs, to Heritage Miniatures and the "Star Fleet Battles" RPG (once generically known as "a war game"). Roddenberry particularly hated the dreadnought ship design, which went against his Starfleet's mission of exploration.

The "Star Fleet Battles" RPG also caused problems for Larry Niven, whose kzinti were made a part of the game, frustrating his own efforts to license tie-ins to "Ringworld". IIRC, Niven complained but the shoddy Paramount license deal with Joseph prevented anyone stopping SFB. (Eventually, the RPG renamed the kzinti when SFB was revamped under a new, more contained licence: the Mirak Star League - yet another antagonistic, felinoid Trek race - appeared in the "Starfleet Command" computer game, based on the old "Star Fleet Battles").

That's a good question, and even Peter David doesn't know, as I understand it.

Hilariously covered in PAD's trade paperback of reprinted CBG essays, "But I Digress..."

Big Name Fan. It may be a somewhat British term, I guess...

Nah, it was often applied by US fans to Bjo Trimble, Joan Winston, James Van Hise - and several female K/S fanzine writers.

 

[Dukhat]

Roddenberry particularly hated the dreadnought ship design, which went against his Starfleet's mission of exploration.

Interesting; I'd heard that Roddenberry had no problem whatsoever with any of FJ's ship designs until he realized that FJ could license them and Roddenberry wouldn't get any money from it. I thought I recalled reading that from FJ's daughter.

 

[JD]

Post September 1991, Richard gave slideshows on all TNG and VGR seasons at his annual Australian convention appearances. Usually three slides per episode. From memory, the DS9 team did not supply him with episode slides, although he did have some promotional ones he used.

This surprises me, I assumed any association he had with the franchise, outside of being a fan, ended once Rodenberry died.

Yes, he kept pace with every new episode and movie. He often brought trailers for each new movie when they became available, and sat at a hucksters' table to sell enamelled pins from Lincoln Enterprises, and sets of trading cards as each new set became available. Also brought items for the charity auctions, such as actor-signed photos, rare publicity materials and autographed trading cards. It's my understanding that he attended at least 40 conventions a year.

I don't recall him being overly critical of things, except to point out the predictable things that Roddenberry would have probably disliked, such as key characters missing from group poses on comic covers, Peter David's tie-ins, Kirk hating Klingons in ST VI, Kira hating Cardassians, DS9 ending in a war arc, and the writers' bible descriptions of Quark and Neelix (described as "ugly aliens", which he said Gene R. would have objected to).

I can see where he might have thought that stuff would go against Rodenberry's ideas for Star Trek, except Kira hating the Cardassians. She wasn't a human or a member of Starfleet, so I don't see why that would be an issue.

Re the Kelvinverse, RA has said, "I love the Abrams films, because it was canon until the point of the Kelvin incident [in which the destruction of the U.S.S. Kelvin creates an alternative quantum universe], and then it’s a new timelime. He can do anything he wants in that timeline. He’s got a free slate...", 2017.
https://paleymatters.org/trekkin-like-the-doodah-man-25daf6f4e77d

I would have expected him to hate them.
Any idea if he's talked about Discovery, Picard, or Lower Decks? I can easily imagine him absolutely hating Disco, and Picard, but I'm not sure what he'd make of LD.

 

[Therin of Andor]

This surprises me, I assumed any association he had with the franchise, outside of being a fan, ended once Rodenberry died.

In order to keep up his jet-setting lifestyle after Sept 1991, RA was quick to promote himself as someone who could guide licensees when negotiating product deals with Paramount/Viacom/CBS Licensing. He essentially worked as an agent guiding the casts about international conventions. And he maintained good relationships with the production teams of both TNG and VGR, who supplied him with slides and auction items for conventions until "Endgame". I am sure he also promoted ENT, and had always had advance notice and gossip on DS9 eps (though rarely many slides of that).

I can see where he might have thought that stuff would go against Rodenberry's ideas for Star Trek, except Kira hating the Cardassians. She wasn't a human or a member of Starfleet, so I don't see why that would be an issue.

Kira was in the Starfleet uniform at the end of DS9, but still hated Cardassians. RA felt that GR would have shown some more growth?

 

[Lonemagpie]

Nah, it was often applied by US fans to Bjo Trimble, Joan Winston, James Van Hise - and several female K/S fanzine writers.

They weren't put in charge of stuff though.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I would have expected him to hate them.
Any idea if he's talked about Discovery, Picard, or Lower Decks? I can easily imagine him absolutely hating Disco, and Picard, but I'm not sure what he'd make of LD.

I think I recall a positive tweet when Picard premiered. Then he posted a photo of Denise Crosby's TNG badge calling it a gift she gave him, and she fucking savaged him for it and told a very different story where he ripped it from her chest saying she won't be needing it anymore.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I think I recall a positive tweet when Picard premiered. Then he posted a photo of Denise Crosby's TNG badge calling it a gift she gave him, and she fucking savaged him for it and told a very different story where he ripped it from her chest saying she won't be needing it anymore.

That com badge story wasn’t Arnold. That was Rick Berman.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

That com badge story wasn’t Arnold. That was Rick Berman.

Oh, that explains why I couldn't find a Twitter account for Richard Arnold this morning. (Yes, I spent a good forty minutes searching.)

Really, Berman? What a D.