Question on Richard Arnold and his role

[Stevil2001]

I think you forfeit the delivery & acceptance advance if you don't actually deliver. But you should get to keep the signing and outline advances, because you fulfilled those parts of the contract.

Here's one example: https://www.courthousenews.com/simon-schuster-sues-lil-kim-foxy-brown/

I think from reading the PDF with the actual court filings, these authors might have got the whole advance before submitting any manuscript, so slightly different than what happens for an S&S media tie-in author.

 

[EARTHER]

I think you forfeit the delivery & acceptance advance if you don't actually deliver. But you should get to keep the signing and outline advances, because you fulfilled those parts of the contract.

But that’s a little bit unseemly, isn’t it? Not coming through with what you’re expected to do?

 

[Christopher]

But that’s a little bit unseemly, isn’t it? Not coming through with what you’re expected to do?

It depends on the circumstances, of course. If a writer just blows off the work and fails to deliver, that's a breach of contract. But there can be cases where an author's unable to complete the manuscript due to illness or injury or something, or where the publisher decides to abandon the project. In such cases, the author is not at fault and wouldn't be penalized by having to return the advances they properly earned.

Such a thing did happen a decade ago when the tie-in novels that I, Alan Dean Foster, David Mack, and Greg Cox wrote based on the 2009 Star Trek movie were cancelled due to policy differences between the studio and the publisher (please don't ask). Fortunately, that cancellation happened after we turned in our manuscripts, so we earned the full advances. If it had happened before we finished our manuscripts, I'm not sure what would've happened -- maybe a partial payment for the work we managed to complete? I don't know. Luckily it didn't become an issue.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Most types of publishing are a bet.

In royalty publishing, the advance/royalty arrangement works out to both sides hedging their bet: the advance is the writer's hedge, that no matter what happens, he or she gets paid for the work. And the fact that the advance, by itself, isn't enough for an outright purchase is the publisher's hedge that they won't get stiffed for the full price -- and the cover art, layout, prepress, printing, binding, and finishing costs, among other things -- of something that turns out to be a dog.

In self-publication the author himself/herself is betting that sales will make up the costs of whatever has to be farmed out, bring in a profit, and maybe bring in a royalty publishing contract. In "vanity" subsidy publishing, the author is also betting that the book's having appeared under a known vanity label won't poison all of that.

Legitimate subsidy publishing, such as a religious denomination -- or an individual congregation, like First Church Cambridge (Massachusetts) -- doing its own hymnal isn't a bet: they need the thing printed and bound, and they know approximately how many of them need to be made, and they're simply paying to have it done.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Meanwhile, I believe Peter David is the most prolific STAR TREK novelist.

I feel like it's either him or Michael Jan Friedman. I seem to recall Friedman had a slight edge about fifteen years ago, but he hasn't published any Trek fiction since Death in Winter, and David has had a few New Frontier projects since then, so it probably is Peter David now. Publishing two or three novels a year throughout the nineties -- same with Diane Carey -- adds up. At some point, with continued, steady publication, Dave Mack, Dayton Ward, and you yourself, Greg, will surpass Peter and Mike in a few years.

In terms of tie-in credits overall, it's Friedman, by dint of his large catalog of Trek novels and about 90 comics.

 

[Greg Cox]

Talking about publishing in general, advances are NOT paid out all at once but in installments, tied to a prearranged payout schedule, with payments due on signing, delivery and acceptance, publication, and so on.

As to instances where the book ends up not happening . . . well, there are many different possibilities and permutations there. In general, the publisher does not get the signing money back, although there have been rare instances where an author has bought a book back from a publisher--because of creative differences--in order to sell it to someone else. In that case, most publishers would want their initial payments back. (Obviously, this does not apply to STAR TREK novels since you can't sell a STAR TREK novel to another publisher.)

Ordinarily, however, it's in everybody's best interests for the author to deliver the book in a timely fashion. The sooner you deliver the book, the sooner you get paid -- and can move on to the next book.

It should be noted that, in general, advances are basically intended to give the author something to live on while they write the book.

 

[David Mack]

I feel like it's either him or Michael Jan Friedman. I seem to recall Friedman had a slight edge about fifteen years ago, but he hasn't published any Trek fiction since Death in Winter, and David has had a few New Frontier projects since then, so it probably is Peter David now. Publishing two or three novels a year throughout the nineties -- same with Diane Carey -- adds up. At some point, with continued, steady publication, Dave Mack, Dayton Ward, and you yourself, Greg, will surpass Peter and Mike in a few years.

In terms of tie-in credits overall, it's Friedman, by dint of his large catalog of Trek novels and about 90 comics.

When last I counted, including only full-length novels either written or co-written, Peter David is the most prolific Star Trek novelist, with 45 unique titles to his name. Michael Jan Friedman is in second place, with 36 Star Trek novels. I am in a distant third place with 28 (#29 on the way) and Dayton Ward right on my heels (or tied with me, I'm not sure anymore).

That is only for novels, mind you. Comics are a separate animal.

 

[Csalem]

What happens when a writer is brought in to finish a book that the original writer couldn't? Presumably the royalties are lower as the outline already agreed with the original author?

 

[KRAD]

Csalem: there really isn't a single answer to that question. New terms are worked out when that does happen, but it's on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Csalem]

Csalem: there really isn't a single answer to that question. New terms are worked out when that does happen, but it's on a case-by-case basis.

Thanks. It has been a fascinating few posts getting to see how the industry works, especially since it is far removed from what I do for a living.

 

[Greg Cox]

Thanks. It has been a fascinating few posts getting to see how the industry works, especially since it is far removed from what I do for a living.

I'm enjoying the opportunity to demystify the process.

I've actually had folk ask me how how much I have to pay CBS to be able to write STAR TREK books!

"Um, it doesn't work that way."

 

[plynch]

People are always saying musicians should just play for the fun of it.

 

[KRAD]

People are always saying musicians should just play for the fun of it.

Those people should be beaten with sticks.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

People are always saying musicians should just play for the fun of it.

Actually, most do. Or they play because they'd go bonkers if they didn't. It is extremely rare for a working musician to be able to make it on performance and/or composition alone; the overwhelming majority of paid musicians, including those who are members of world-class orchestras or chamber groups, and/or who are touring soloists, must also either teach (whether they enjoy it or not), or have "day jobs," or at the very least have lucrative hobbies.

Bottom line: Don't go into music expecting to get rich on it. For that matter, that also applies to writing, especially Star Trek prose, despite the acronymic meaning of a certain nom de plume used by Karen Rose Cercone, Julia Ecklar, and occasionally Melissa Crandall, when working as a team.

Those people should be beaten with sticks.

Or taken out and maimed.

 

[plynch]

Of course we enjoy doing it.

But one has bills to pay.

And money invested in gear and hours of rehearsal and travel costs.

The operative word was "just" for the fun of it.

Btw the mean yearly income for someone calling him or herself a full-time musician was just over 21k. This reshuffling of the economy and closure of so many small to mid-cap clubs might be moving us back to a patronage model which might -- might get musicians a more sustainable life. Since you get .4 cents a spotify stream. (The record company actually does. What you get . . .)

We'll see.

Btw if you want to hire a pro jazz trio that plays pop tunes from the 60s through the 80s, ping me with your comm badge!

 

[Greg Cox]

"Real writers write for the love of it. Only greedy hacks care about getting paid."

Drives me nuts. Always want to ask them what they do for the living and whether that applies to their job as well.

"Real orthodontists straighten teeth because they love it. They don't expect to get paid."
"Real plumbers fix pipes out of love of the craft. They're willing to starve in garrets for their art."
"Real chefs just love cooking. They love it when you eat their food for free."

Etc.

 

[Damian]

"Real writers write for the love of it. Only greedy hacks care about getting paid."

Drives me nuts. Always want to ask them what they do for the living and whether that applies to their job as well.

"Real orthodontists straighten teeth because they love it. They don't expect to get paid."
"Real plumbers fix pipes out of love of the craft. They're willing to starve in garrets for their art."
"Real chefs just love cooking. They love it when you eat their food for free."

Etc.

Well, I would never begrudge someone their compensation. And I'm sure it's not 'easy' work. You guys have to write 200 to 400 pages of story, make it interesting, make sure it's not only internally consistent but also consistent with canon (requiring some research) and sometimes even consistent with other novels depending on the book, and while you guys have editors I'm sure you try your best to use proper grammar/spelling. And there is just some basic things, the nuts and bolts, like making sure to use the proper tense, use quotation marks when needed, and all the sausage making stuff that goes into writing a book. So I figure you guys earn your compensation.

In some ways I envy you guys because you get to make a living out of something that for most of us is just a hobby.

Now I will temper that by noting that I'm sure it's not without it's fair share of stress. I guess in your particular line of work you never know where the next paycheck is going to come from. During the 2018 Star Trek book drought, for instance, no one was getting work writing Star Trek novels basically. And it sounds like you don't get any sort of steady paycheck.

So in some ways I envy you guys, but perhaps in other ways not so much. I'm lucky to have a steady job with a regular income that I don't have to worry about such things (and a recession proof job even, so I'm very fortunate, thank God, and am even content with my job). But then, if you love what you do I could see where that makes things worth it for you.

I wonder, for anyone in the 'biz', does working at something most of us consider a hobby take some of the fun out of it for you? I guess like anything that probably varies from writer to writer, but I wonder, working in Star Trek, even from a tie in perspective, if that takes some of the luster off.

 

[JD]

I hope you’re not directing your remark to the established Star Trek novelists here!

Actually, I think at least a few of the novelists do have day jobs. It's very hard to make a living solely as a author if you aren't selling Stephen King or Stephanie Meyer numbers.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I'm not talking about how things should be; I'm talking about how things are. If things were as they should be, waiters would be making a lot more than they actually make, and stockbrokers would be making a lot less than they actually make. People wouldn't have to take pay cuts to get into teaching. The money to be made in the stock market would go to investors, rather than to parasites. Student loans would still be treated the way they were when I was a University student: as a community service, rather than as a way to breed evergreen debtors. And writers and musicians would have a better chance of becoming rich by pursuing their passions than by, say, selling shoes.

Then again, if things were as they should be, it would not have been possible for a fool to become President of the United States just by being (as one political humorist put it, some four years ago) "openly asshole."

 

[David cgc]

I'm enjoying the opportunity to demystify the process.

Thanks to this forum, I once had a conversation with someone who worked in publishing who asked if I was an author since I was just throwing around terms like “trade paperback” and “earned out.”