Question about Spock Prime's character.

[xavier]

In Trek 2009, when Spock Prime tells New Spock to put aside logic and do what feels right. Does this mean that Spock Prime has completely now accepted his human side and now acts human. he is no longer the stone cold Vulcan. Spock Prime now does everything with emotions and not logic alone.

Is that the case with Spock prime?

What a shame though. since all is friends are dead and there is no human to share being human with. Spock Prime must regret turning that Leia chick down from the Side of Paradise.

Whats the point of Spock Prime now acting all human among 10 000 surviving Vulcan people, who I would guess may be more Vulcan, now more than ever because they would not want to deal with the pain of loss. the loss of their home world and 6 billion vulcans.

 

[BillJ]

SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

 

[Lance]

SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Agree. TOS Spock was a stickler for the whole Logic vs Emotion ordeal, but I'd argue that Original Movie Spock was always a looser characterization than the way Nimoy played him on TV. But in a good way.

Nimoy Spock in the JJ-movies is completely 100% consistent with his Movies 1-6 characterization.

 

[M'Sharak]

SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Agree. TOS Spock was a stickler for the whole Logic vs Emotion ordeal, but I'd argue that Original Movie Spock was always a looser characterization than the way Nimoy played him on TV. But in a good way.

There was a progression away from pure logic which began with TMP, played out through the remaining TOS movies, and carried on into the background of the TNG Sarek stories and culminated with Spock's own appearance in TNG.

Nimoy Spock in the JJ-movies is completely 100% consistent with his Movies 1-6 characterization.

Quite so. His talk with nuSpock at the end of the 2009 movie is sort of a finale or coda to his progression from dogmatically-logical younger Spock to a more relaxed part-Vulcan who's learned to balance that logic against what he's come to understand about humanity's more emotional and intuitive way of doing things.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In Trek 2009, when Spock Prime tells New Spock to put aside logic and do what feels right. Does this mean that Spock Prime has completely now accepted his human side and now acts human. he is no longer the stone cold Vulcan. Spock Prime now does everything with emotions and not logic alone.

He's not human and he's not Vulcan - he's a hybrid. He's being what he wants and not what his society expected for decades.

Is that the case with Spock prime?

What a shame though. since all is friends are dead and there is no human to share being human with. Spock Prime must regret turning that Leia chick down from the Side of Paradise.

While Young Spock is off exploring space, he's repopulating the Vulcan species. Just sayin'.

Whats the point of Spock Prime now acting all human among 10 000 surviving Vulcan people, who I would guess may be more Vulcan, now more than ever because they would not want to deal with the pain of loss. the loss of their home world and 6 billion vulcans.

If most of the straight people in the world died, should gays start acting straight? The whole point of Spock is the epic story of him coming to terms with himself. The surviving Vulcans can accept Spock on his terms. He's long done trying to fit in.

 

[urbandefault]

If most of the straight people in the world died, should gays start acting straight?

Maybe the Mariposans were faced with that in TNG's "Up the Long Ladder," and came up with the cloning thing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"Logic is the BEGINNING of wisdom, Valeris. Not the end."

That sums it up as well as anything else I've heard about Spock Prime, IMHO.

He does not, and never, has, "acted all human". He's just found a good balance between his human and Vulcan halves. Just because he draws on his emotions doesn't mean he's abandoned all Vulcanity. (Remember, Vulcans have emotions as well - they just repress them. It's only the most dedicated kolinahr adepts that have eliminated emotions altogether.) He's just worked out how he can be both.

 

[Ithekro]

One wonders how he got along with his wife? Which has been assumed to be Saavik. (the wife from the wedding Picard was at, since it would be impossible for Picard to have been at the one with T'Pring with both McCoy and Kirk witnessing as well. We assume it was Spock's wedding as Sarek is not known to have had another son that would be around in Picard's time. Even with his third wife.)

 

[Dukhat]

One wonders how he got along with his wife? Which has been assumed to be Saavik. (the wife from the wedding Picard was at, since it would be impossible for Picard to have been at the one with T'Pring with both McCoy and Kirk witnessing as well. We assume it was Spock's wedding as Sarek is not known to have had another son that would be around in Picard's time. Even with his third wife.)

Why would his wife be Saavik?

 

[Ithekro]

Key word is "assumed" in the fan circles and novels to be Saavik. Partly due to them having mated during his renewed body went through Pon Farr. The urge would seem to be set between connected pairs from evidence from Spock and Star Trek: Voyager.

Still one wonder how Spock gets along with his wife in the 24th century...regardless of who she is/was.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Maybe the Mariposans were faced with that in TNG's "Up the Long Ladder," and came up with the cloning thing.

There must be a reason why they were called Mariposans ...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Key word is "assumed" in the fan circles and novels to be Saavik. Partly due to them having mated during his renewed body went through Pon Farr. The urge would seem to be set between connected pairs from evidence from Spock and Star Trek: Voyager.

Still one wonder how Spock gets along with his wife in the 24th century...regardless of who she is/was.

There's a reason he fled to Romulus.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

While Young Spock is off exploring space, he's repopulating the Vulcan species. Just sayin'.

If Prime Spock fathers children NuSpock would also be their biological father. If Prime Spock kicks the bucket NuSpock may have to step up to the cradle and do some rearing.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Exactly this--and it was a bit of character development (thankfully) carried over into TWoK and the rest of the movies. (Contrast "I have been and always shall be your friend" with "Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed" from "The Naked Time.") Except for a brief relapse into total Vulcan non-emotionality in TVH, he remained this way through all the movies. In TFF and TUC, we see emotional outbursts--in TUC, Spock tells Valeris to go beyond logic and into faith.

If anything, it was TNG's "Re-Unification" that muddied the water. Data talks to Spock about the contrasts in how they view humanity--Data as something to aspire to, Spock as something to reject and surpress. Spock reacts as if he still viewed his human half that way, even though Nimoy plays Spock with a great deal of human inflection--he almost laughs when he repeats Picard's derisive "cowboy diplomacy."

The new Trek movies suggest that Spock will, in the new timeline, reach this internal reproachment sooner than his Prime counter-part, though there will be ugly moments along the way when he succumbs to rage and bloodlust. However, when you think about it, those are as much (if not moreso) Vulcan emotions as they are human.

Indeed, I'd imagine that--with six billion fellow Vulcans gone who had previously aided in emotional control telepathically (implied in "All Our Yesterdays")--the 10,000 survivors are all having a harder time keeping their emotions in check, and that's without taking into account the sheer trauma of the loss.

 

[BillJ]

If anything, it was TNG's "Re-Unification" that muddied the water. Data talks to Spock about the contrasts in how they view humanity--Data as something to aspire to, Spock as something to reject and surpress. Spock reacts as if he still viewed his human half that way, even though Nimoy plays Spock with a great deal of human inflection--he almost laughs when he repeats Picard's derisive "cowboy diplomacy."

Good post.

I wonder if a couple of factors may have come into play with the way Spock is written in "Unification":

1) The movie and TV people simply weren't communicating during the production of The Undiscovered Country and by the time Nimoy made it to the set of TNG, it was too late to do rewrites.

2) Berman and Company weren't huge fans of TOS and simply went with popular interpretation of the character, instead of researching the series and movies to see how the character had changed over the years.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I think the writers wanted to shoehorn the conversation in, since it does touch on a central--if facile--comparison of the characters. And since it was TNG, Data gets to be the voice of wisdom. The scene could easily have been written to have Spock note the difference and observe that he wasted valuable years rejecting what Data desired. Spock could have given Data his "blessing," saying that he learned to admire many of the humans in his life and to value the heritage he shares with them.

I'm not a fan of the episode as a whole. This scene was the least of it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

One wonders how he got along with his wife? Which has been assumed to be Saavik. (the wife from the wedding Picard was at, since it would be impossible for Picard to have been at the one with T'Pring with both McCoy and Kirk witnessing as well. We assume it was Spock's wedding as Sarek is not known to have had another son that would be around in Picard's time. Even with his third wife.)

Why would his wife be Saavik?

Non-canon though it may be, his wife IS Saavik. (Vulcan's Heart, if you're interested)

 

[Set Harth]

1) The movie and TV people simply weren't communicating during the production of The Undiscovered Country and by the time Nimoy made it to the set of TNG, it was too late to do rewrites.

Even though there was a direct reference to the events of TUC in Nimoy's Unification dialogue?

 

[F. King Daniel]

One wonders how he got along with his wife? Which has been assumed to be Saavik. (the wife from the wedding Picard was at, since it would be impossible for Picard to have been at the one with T'Pring with both McCoy and Kirk witnessing as well. We assume it was Spock's wedding as Sarek is not known to have had another son that would be around in Picard's time. Even with his third wife.)

Why would his wife be Saavik?

Non-canon though it may be, his wife IS Saavik. (Vulcan's Heart, if you're interested)

Between II and III, a popular fan theory was that Saavik was the daughter of Spock and the Romulan Commander.

 

[borgboy]

SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Exactly this--and it was a bit of character development (thankfully) carried over into TWoK and the rest of the movies. (Contrast "I have been and always shall be your friend" with "Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed" from "The Naked Time.") Except for a brief relapse into total Vulcan non-emotionality in TVH, he remained this way through all the movies. In TFF and TUC, we see emotional outbursts--in TUC, Spock tells Valeris to go beyond logic and into faith.

If anything, it was TNG's "Re-Unification" that muddied the water. Data talks to Spock about the contrasts in how they view humanity--Data as something to aspire to, Spock as something to reject and surpress. Spock reacts as if he still viewed his human half that way, even though Nimoy plays Spock with a great deal of human inflection--he almost laughs when he repeats Picard's derisive "cowboy diplomacy."

The new Trek movies suggest that Spock will, in the new timeline, reach this internal reproachment sooner than his Prime counter-part, though there will be ugly moments along the way when he succumbs to rage and bloodlust. However, when you think about it, those are as much (if not moreso) Vulcan emotions as they are human.

Indeed, I'd imagine that--with six billion fellow Vulcans gone who had previously aided in emotional control telepathically (implied in "All Our Yesterdays")--the 10,000 survivors are all having a harder time keeping their emotions in check, and that's without taking into account the sheer trauma of the loss.

There's some brilliant insights here.
With young Spock dealing with the loss of his mother and Vulcan, an emotional reconciliation with Sarek, and his relationship with Uhura who pushes him to be more emotional, he is developing and expressing his emotions much sooner than Prime Spock did, and I am really fascinated to find out where his character goes next.

I would like to see more of Sarek and Spock Prime. I do think it would be interesting for Spock Prime to take a wife. I also think some scenes with Uhura and Spock Prime would be really interesting, to see their reactions to each other and get his take on the relationship.