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Question about "Conscience of the King" Season One

VulcanVixen

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
In the episode, "Conscience of the King", Kirk was one of the people to have seen Kodos (aka Anton Karidian)... an event which took place 20 years ago... wouldn't he have been 14 and not eligible to be part of the Star Fleet? How had he seen Kodos, they don't mention?
 
No, they don't mention. There are many fan explanations and non-canon books that discuss it, but nothing beyond the episode ever mentions it. You're correct. He wouldn't have been in Starfleet but as a citizen of a great interstellar civilization, he could easily have been located at the colony where the incident occurred and certainly would have been old enough to be a viable witness to said events. Lt. Riley on the other hand may have been a little young, but try telling him that (or Lenore ;) ).
 
Kirk was 14 at the time while on the colony that Kodos was in charge of. The same went for Riley, who is younger than Kirk. Riley mentioned that Kodos killed his mother and father. Sucks to be him.
 
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I understand how Reilly remembers, since his parents were killed, but I highly doubt Kirk was on that planet as well, considering Kirk was on Earth. lol This is very amusing, hmm. Thanks for your answers :)
 
considering Kirk was on Earth.

Kirk Prime was born on Earth, but that's not to say he stayed there till age 14. George Kirk's starship may have been helping settle a colony when Karidian struck, or George Samuel Jr and Jim (and Winona?) may have been staying with relatives while George Sr was in Starfleet.

The JJ ST Kirk's parents were shown to be in Starfleet, presumably heading home so that Jim would be born in Iowa, until Nero intervened.
 
Was Jim Kirk's mother shown to be Starfleet, or merely aboard a starship?

In "Conscience of the King", we could just as well decide that young Kirk's parents were killed by Kodos, too (or at least one of them was), and this made Kirk join Starfleet. He just maintains his cool better than Riley, which is sort of a story point anyway. This decision wouldn't be contradicted even by STXI, which only describes events 14 years before the TOS episode and then alters the timeline. The death of Kirk's custodian(s) would have explained why this person does not (these people do not) qualify as eyewitness(es) to the massacre.

Incidentally, the calamity mentioned in the episode, a contaminated food reserve leading to famine, doesn't make much logical sense unless we make certain assumptions about the nature of the colony. 8,000 people could never have starved to death if they lost their food stores on an otherwise habitable planet; the only way the loss could lead to a famine would be if the planet was largely uninhabitable, with the colony perhaps built underground, or under protective domes, or something.

This is a bit more high tech than most of the colonies seen in Star Trek. Quite possibly such a colony would have needed technological help and advisors, thereby involving George Kirk Sr. from Starfleet for some length of time. He would then have brought along his family...

If Kirk's custodians weren't killed by Kodos, then we have to explain how they can't be eyewitnesses. Perhaps they died later on? But the computer claims that there were only nine eyewitnesses to begin with, and several of them are dead already by the time of the episode. So apparently most of the 4,000 survivors didn't bear witness to Kodos somehow; Kirk's parents could have been among those.

How come 3,991 people could have missed seeing the face of their governor? Well, Kodos obliquely refers to a coup that may have brought him to unlawful power, ousting the real governor. And "Kodos" sounds like a false name anyway. Perhaps the person who became Kodos rose from the ranks of obscurity while wearing a ski mask, and only these nine people ever saw him without his mask?

Still doesn't wash very well, though - because Starfleet archives contain a photo of Kodos!

So perhaps everybody saw the face, but only those nine people knew who this person had previously been? Perhaps "Kodos" arrived on the same ship as Kirk, Riley and their Starfleet parents, saw a colony ripe for picking, and organized a coup there - killing 4,000 colonists and all but nine of the people who knew who he had been (or who he had pretended to be, since he probably always went under aliases, being a villain through and through) during the trip there?

The latter option would still be in line with everything we know of Kirk, including STXI.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I always assumed that Kirk was visiting relatives or something like that. His parents were elsewhere when it happened. It makes sense with Kirk's parents being alive and involved in Starfleet that Kirk grew up like an "army brat" of today. His youth would have been more mobile, then.
 
I always thought he was staying with Leighton's family for some reason, like maybe it was a junior peace corps type thing.

At any rate, it was probably wise not to over explain it and lock in a history that wouldn't fit later.
 
All good answers, thank you. You see, most of those possibilites did not occur to me, seeing that they were undocumented and falsified by the newest Star Trek film (which states Kirk became interested in the Starfleet late into his adolescense). There were a lot of things in the new film that I found most disturbing and perverted, so far from TOS. I will look into Kirk's younger life, although, not many documents exist of the sort, just bits and pieces here and there.
 
Perverted? :wtf:

Kirk experienced a completely different upbringing due to the events of the film. It didn't falsify anything, it depicted an alternate timeline.
 
Not perverted in the sense you are referring to.
Well, yes, I assumed as much, but why would they want to play it up on an alternate timeline, it confuses everything.
 
Um..okay...I saw the new movie and wasn't confused....

? no aspect of the new movie was confusing, to what are you referring? I'm talking in reference to the Conscience of the King episode, where it states that Kirk was one of the people that had seen Kodos (but he'd have to have been 14)... but in the movie he lived on Earth up until his late adolescence, so there would have been no way to have been on the planet where Kodos was going to have his "perfect" colony.

But I come to the conclusion that perhaps alternate realities have been used. Nobody is confused about the movie.
 
Given that the production staff and the movie itself use(d) the term "alternate realities", I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't think they've been used.

But anyway...
 
We know relatively little about the life of an average Iowan farmboy in the 23rd century. Perhaps those tend to visit country fairs in distant star systems basically every year? Star travel apparently isn't the privilege of Starfleet, or the rich, in TOS; there's often mention of private vessels, of passenger liners, of people moving to places.

Jimmy Kirk could have been on Tarsus IV for many reasons, many of them not requiring that either of his parents would be in Starfleet, and still not been considered particularly "mobile" as far as 23rd century kids go. Perhaps George Kirk Sr. had by the time of "Conscience" already left Starfleet and decided to become a farmer on a distant agrarian colony?

Timo Saloniemi
 
in the movie he lived on Earth up until his late adolescence, so there would have been no way to have been on the planet where Kodos was going to have his "perfect" colony.

Correct. This version of Kirk grew up fatherless, and may never have experienced the Kodos incidents. Neither did he serve on the USS Farragut under Captain Garrovick, or meet the gaseous vampiric entity the other Kirk finally defeated in "Obsession".

And Captain Pike didn't become wheelchair bound the same way as in the other reality.

"Amok Time", "Journey to Babel" and "The Search for Spock" won't unfold the same way as they did in the other timeline either. No Vulcan, no Amanda.
 
And Captain Pike didn't become wheelchair bound the same way as in the other reality.

...To nitpick, Pike might only have been bound to a wheelchair for something like two days in STXI. Or then for life. We'll be waiting for the sequel...

I wonder... Could the TOS events happen in "almost" the same way, in a parallel reality that tries hard to be the original reality? Some sort of "fate" guided Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Sulu and Scotty together against all odds in the STXI timeline; perhaps "fate" would necessarily put Kirk together with Garrovick, Finnegan, Finney and other people from his "other past", too.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Oh! I think I understand now, thanks! But all these alternate realities sure are bothersome, sometimes. It's not a cake walk to keep track of where one stops and the other starts. Especially when they threw in the whole Spock/Uhura pairing into the new film. I mean, I remember in the earlier seasons of TOS where they would flirt, but nothing escalated. Especially since they showed Uhura as Kirk's main interest at the bar... needless to say, the actress couldn't even pronounce her own name, I kept hearing "A-Whore-ah" Which is damn straight! Now, now, I'm just being spitefull.
 
considering Kirk was on Earth.

Kirk Prime was born on Earth, but that's not to say he stayed there till age 14. George Kirk's starship may have been helping settle a colony when Karidian struck, or George Samuel Jr and Jim (and Winona?) may have been staying with relatives while George Sr was in Starfleet.

The JJ ST Kirk's parents were shown to be in Starfleet, presumably heading home so that Jim would be born in Iowa, until Nero intervened.
:rolleyes: JJ's Drek has zilch to do with TOS except for some familiar names and references.

But I agree that just because Kirk was born on Earth it doesn't mean he couldn't have been offworld at 14 perhaps visiting relatives or something.
 
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