Q&A from Orci & Kurtzman @ Trekmovie.com (SPOILERS)

[startrekwatcher]

The more I hear them respond to certain questions the more I think they just aren't very good writers.

What happens in 25 years after the encounter with the Kelvin?
answer: fan fiction

But y'know, they had an entire sequence already written and filmed explaining the 25 yr gap, but if it doesn't make the cut, it doesn't make the canon. (At least, that's their attitude)

So? Unlike a lot of internet fans I don't scour the internet looking for all of this behind-the-scenes information. I do like I used to--watch a film or tv show on its own and judge that. Not whether there was a deleted scene or that a prequel comic fills in the blank or a podcast sheds light on something that should have been made clear and self-evident in the final product.

Why was the Enterprise built in Iowa?
answer: as a tribute to George Kirk--well why didn't you share that with the rest of us

Weren't the Kelvin saltshakers enough of a clue? Or Capt. Pike's lecture to drunken Jim?

Uh..no.

Nero seems not very fleshed out and the events in the 24th century are vague yet Countdown seems to provide some of this. Why not include them in the film?
answer: Well... we didn't bother to come up with any of this on our own and unfortunately the comic writers didn't write Countdown until after we had written the film WTF?!?

I can't comment on the creation of Nero, but print media adaptations (comics, novels, etc) tend to be written well after the movie's script. Heck, that's even true for TMP.

My point in that comment was that instead of relying on comic book writers to flesh out these story elements Orci & Kurtzman should have on their own, in the script before the film was shot. It was sloppy writing on their part made even moreso by the fact that the comic book writers did a better job of fleshing it out than these two.

Also, NCC-1701 while I've seen Lost this season others might not have and you hinted at the biggest revelation of the season in your parody.

 

[startrekwatcher]

The more I hear them respond to certain questions the more I think they just aren't very good writers.

What happens in 25 years after the encounter with the Kelvin?
answer: fan fiction

Why was the Enterprise built in Iowa?
answer: as a tribute to George Kirk--well why didn't you share that with the rest of us

Nero seems not very fleshed out and the events in the 24th century are vague yet Countdown seems to provide some of this. Why not include them in the film?
answer: Well... we didn't bother to come up with any of this on our own and unfortunately the comic writers didn't write Countdown until after we had written the film WTF?!?

They need all the help they can get writing the next film. Too bad Lindeloff isn't an actual writer on the next film though because the work on LOST is fantastic as far as structure, plot, twists, creative storytelling and originality.

Good writers know what to leave out. The stuff they left out would only make the film "better" for nitpickers.

You're right. There were plenty of problems with the film as is why introduce any more. By the way I'm not a nitpicker.

 

[Cyke101]

The more I hear them respond to certain questions the more I think they just aren't very good writers.

What happens in 25 years after the encounter with the Kelvin?
answer: fan fiction

But y'know, they had an entire sequence already written and filmed explaining the 25 yr gap, but if it doesn't make the cut, it doesn't make the canon. (At least, that's their attitude)

So? Unlike a lot of internet fans I don't scour the internet looking for all of this behind-the-scenes information. I do like I used to--watch a film or tv show on its own and judge that. Not whether there was a deleted scene or that a prequel comic fills in the blank or a podcast sheds light on something that should have been made clear and self-evident in the final product.

I wouldn't expect you to scour the internet, either. But the thing is, something might be accounted for, so wait for that before you accuse anyone of anything. Me myself, I took that 25 year gap as waiting for Spock Prime to pop out, as opposed to easily destroying Earth or Kid Spock. Spock Prime was lost for 25 years, after all, and his crew spouted out a lot of technobabble (indicating how careful they were) to look for him.

Fun Fact: that aforementioned scene explaining the 25 year gap? It was nixed by Abrams, not the writers. Again, undue blame.

Uh..no.

Perhaps rewatch the movie, in theater or DVD or cable.

Nero seems not very fleshed out and the events in the 24th century are vague yet Countdown seems to provide some of this. Why not include them in the film?
answer: Well... we didn't bother to come up with any of this on our own and unfortunately the comic writers didn't write Countdown until after we had written the film WTF?!?

I can't comment on the creation of Nero, but print media adaptations (comics, novels, etc) tend to be written well after the movie's script. Heck, that's even true for TMP.

My point in that comment was that instead of relying on comic book writers to flesh out these story elements Orci & Kurtzman should have on their own, in the script before the film was shot. It was sloppy writing on their part made even moreso by the fact that the comic book writers did a better job of fleshing it out than these two.[/QUOTE]

But that sort of fleshing out happens all the time in any given adaptation (Trek or not), to the point where sometimes (well, oftentimes) the writers of those adaptations embellish more than they need to. They flesh out, whether they do it well or not is sort of irrelevant.

And, for all we know, this Trek went down a more theatre-type route, wherein actors are encouraged to create their own stories and motivations to supplement the writers. Greenwood did just that because of the lack of source material for the character of Pike compared to the rest of the TOS cast. That type of acting was parodied by Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder, so that method is pretty well known.

 

[Michael]

Argh, I can never tell if you're being serious or just sarcastic. Drives me mad!

[...] I'm not really sure either.

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one then.

Also, NCC-1701 while I've seen Lost this season others might not have and you hinted at the biggest revelation of the season in your parody.

Yeah, you are right. I added spoiler tags.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Fun Fact: that aforementioned scene explaining the 25 year gap? It was nixed by Abrams, not the writers. Again, undue blame.

Fine, I blame Abrams then.

But that sort of fleshing out happens all the time in any given adaptation (Trek or not), to the point where sometimes (well, oftentimes) the writers of those adaptations embellish more than they need to. They flesh out, whether they do it well or not is sort of irrelevant.

I'm well aware that authors go into greater detail in a novelization. My point is that the film might not have needed as detailed a backstory as the one in the comics but it certainly needed more than the one that Orci & Kurtzman ended up with in the actual film. There's a difference in narrative efficiency and in reducing a key piece of the story to an unsatisfying footnote.

 

[pookha]

i think in ythe end they went wiht the option of letting the audience mostly know what the good guy characters knew.
they knew the klingon ships were destroyed but they dont know why.

 

[Praetor]

...which leaves open lots of options. Particularly in regard to the Laurentian System.

 

[pookha]

this is the original thread bob orci answers questionsbut it is easy to see how you missed it since it was several pages back.

if you read through the whole question and answer thread i think there is some stuff not
in the summeary.

 

[Praetor]

Ah, yes. I was just posting this from what Trekmovie.com posted today. I had a feeling this might have been covered.

 

[pookha]

so ok


really it was lost several pages back..
had to battle smoke monster to brinhg it forward

 

[Zeppster]

Hmmm...I think the .1 to .365 for stardates is a little lame, but I guess I can live with it.

Yeah - and if PrimeKirk was born on March 22nd (like Shat) as has been traditionally accepted, that makes nuKirk about two and a half months early.

Where in cannon was it said that his birthday was March 22nd. That day is Shatner's brithday, not necessarily Kirk's

 

[Michael]

Where in cannon was it said that his birthday was March 22nd. That day is Shatner's brithday, not necessarily Kirk's

Neither canon nor cannon ever said something about Kirk's birthday (well, until the new movie came around, that is). But because March 22nd is William Shatner's birthday, many accept it as Kirk's, too.

 

[Praetor]

^Yep, what he said. In any case, nuKirk's birthday is (probably) January 4th.

 

[number6]

Fun Fact: that aforementioned scene explaining the 25 year gap? It was nixed by Abrams, not the writers. Again, undue blame.

Fine, I blame Abrams then.

But that sort of fleshing out happens all the time in any given adaptation (Trek or not), to the point where sometimes (well, oftentimes) the writers of those adaptations embellish more than they need to. They flesh out, whether they do it well or not is sort of irrelevant.

I'm well aware that authors go into greater detail in a novelization. My point is that the film might not have needed as detailed a backstory as the one in the comics but it certainly needed more than the one that Orci & Kurtzman ended up with in the actual film. There's a difference in narrative efficiency and in reducing a key piece of the story to an unsatisfying footnote.

Not everyone need everything spelled out and spoonfed to them. I find that more of an insult to the viewer, than something left for us to decide.

 

[chardman]

I'm well aware that authors go into greater detail in a novelization. My point is that the film might not have needed as detailed a backstory as the one in the comics but it certainly needed more than the one that Orci & Kurtzman ended up with in the actual film. There's a difference in narrative efficiency and in reducing a key piece of the story to an unsatisfying footnote.

Not everyone need everything spelled out and spoonfed to them. I find that more of an insult to the viewer, than something left for us to decide.

Gotta agree with number6. I haven't read the "Countdown" comic-book, and hadn't seen all that many spoilers, yet I had no problem whatsoever following the film's story. Seemed pretty straight-forward to me.

And most of us don't really care what Nero was up to for 25 years, as it apparently had no real bearing on the story. Why would we want to waste screen time on a one-off character, to convey information that isn't essential to the story? I'd much prefer to focus on Kirk, Spock, and the Gang, than have the story dick around about how Nero spends his free time.

 

[Skywalker]

Stardates: leap years are really gonna fuck things up.

Why? Everything after February 29 would just get bumped back by one, so the last day of the year would be .366 instead of .365.

 

[gaghyogi49]

Kirk's birthday in the old continuity is canon:

Historical archive from "In a mirror, darkly II"

 

[Skywalker]

Kirk's birthday in the old continuity is canon:

Historical archive from "In a mirror, darkly II"

That's actually not technically canon, as that particular page of info wasn't legible on screen. Fanon Violation!

Besides, it says Zefram Cochrane broke the Warp barrier in 2061, when he actually did it in 2063. So it's not particularly trustworthy anyway.

 

[gaghyogi49]

I guess we'll have to wait until the release of Enterprise on Blu-ray then to make it officially canon here at the trekbbs. On MA, this graphic is considered canon, though.

 

[Nimthim]

And what about the concept of first person narrative? Is this no longer a viable way of telling a story?
Aside from the opening sequence and Pike on the Narada, every scene includes Kirk, Spock, or both of them. Therefore we are being told this story in the first person narrative perspectives of Kirk and Spock - we only see and know what these characters see and know. Therefore we are experiencing this adventure as they are and with what they know, which is very little about Nero.
And the point of a visual medium like a movie is that all of the details onscreen are part of the storytelling - thus, as pointed out, the salt shaker is not just a salt shaker, but adds to the narrative.
Beyond of all that, though, the location of the shipyards is totally irrelevant to the story. Riverside, Iowa is just an acknowledgment to long time fans, and makes an easy transition for Kirk to still be living where he grew up. Possibly, Kirk could have paused on his motorcycle before a sign reading 'George Kirk Starfleet Shipyards' - and maybe he did drive by one - but it's not necessary.
Have to go with number6 on this on this also - don't need a complete backstory on Nero - he's fine as he is and I can envision many ways that he spent 25 years honing his hatred and plans for revenge.