KirkTrekModeler
Commander
U Da Man. Thanks. :thumbsup:
Public Resource Enterprise.
- Thread starter KirkTrekModeler
- Start date
Bernard Guignard said:
I would think that the Enterprise Project would be part of a larger Project where they Digitize via 3d Laser scanner many of the Smithsonians Exhibits both on the floor and in storage.
Bernard - Believe it or not, there are no digitized or 3D laser scanned images of the Enterprise model at the Smithsonian. Burst the hell out of my bubble, since then all we would have needed to do was a public records request and received copies of them.
They did, however, do an x-ray scan at one time (I forget when, but it was during one of the refurbs, not when they first received the model) to check stress levels on various parts, etc.
I don't know how useful they would be, but it is nice to know there is something that shows the inside of the model.
Bernard Guignard said:
I would think that the Enterprise Project would be part of a larger Project where they Digitize via 3d Laser scanner many of the Smithsonians Exhibits both on the floor and in storage.
I could have swore that I read that the Enterprise was laser scanned for that remastered CGI stuff they did to Star Trek.
Someone check this out
Why bother?
If CBS did it. It's CBS's property. They aren't about to just hand it over.
Perhaps one or more of you can fenagle your way into getting the Smithsonian to have the old lady scanned and then make the info publicly available.
Perhaps one or more of you can convince them to let you do it yourselves and get the funding together.
But don't anyone hold their breaths waiting for that to happen.
A more sensible approach would be the one Shaw took on the Three footer.
Perhaps some of you guys might be able to find and put together copies of either Gary Kerr's blueprints or Thomas Sasser's PL blueprints(which I've heard are indistinquishable from one another).
Tweaking a copy of those, or Casimiro's, or Sinclair's, or even studying the MR Enterprise(which I've learned was created with Gary Kerr's plans)
are a lot more likely to be doable.
Perhaps even a letter writing campaign to Michael Okuda at Paramount urging him to allow Gary Kerr to restudy and publish a final, legally copyrighted version,
would STILL be more likely to happen then finding yourselves standing inside the TOS E's display case with the business end of a $300,000 scanning system in your hand anytime soon.
If CBS has scanned it they aren't going to give up the scans. Not while there is still potential money to be made.
Maybe three or more decades from now when it all becomes public domain, but before then I wouldn't expect to see CBS turning over scans they paid for.
Cynical?
Maybe.
But on the bright side, there are more realistic things that CAN be done in the meantime.
If CBS did it. It's CBS's property. They aren't about to just hand it over.
Perhaps one or more of you can fenagle your way into getting the Smithsonian to have the old lady scanned and then make the info publicly available.
Perhaps one or more of you can convince them to let you do it yourselves and get the funding together.
But don't anyone hold their breaths waiting for that to happen.
A more sensible approach would be the one Shaw took on the Three footer.
Perhaps some of you guys might be able to find and put together copies of either Gary Kerr's blueprints or Thomas Sasser's PL blueprints(which I've heard are indistinquishable from one another).
Tweaking a copy of those, or Casimiro's, or Sinclair's, or even studying the MR Enterprise(which I've learned was created with Gary Kerr's plans)
are a lot more likely to be doable.
Perhaps even a letter writing campaign to Michael Okuda at Paramount urging him to allow Gary Kerr to restudy and publish a final, legally copyrighted version,
would STILL be more likely to happen then finding yourselves standing inside the TOS E's display case with the business end of a $300,000 scanning system in your hand anytime soon.
If CBS has scanned it they aren't going to give up the scans. Not while there is still potential money to be made.
Maybe three or more decades from now when it all becomes public domain, but before then I wouldn't expect to see CBS turning over scans they paid for.
Cynical?
Maybe.
But on the bright side, there are more realistic things that CAN be done in the meantime.
I think it's safe to say that CBS/Paramount will never allow Star Trek to become public domain.
I don't know if they have a choice.
I'm not a copyright lawyer so I may be wrong.
However, I believe the current amount of time you can copyright something is about 70 years, or I believe it used to be 70 years.
Again, I'm not a copyright lawyer, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that some politicians might have recently banned together at the behest of some corporation to change the law.
But there definitely used to be a time limit on copyrights.
The reason it came to my attention way back when was that I was reading an article about how some of Hemmingway's grand children were upset that they were about to loose the copyright on his materials.
Perhaps this has changed and I am now mistaken about there still being a time limit, but I haven't heard about it one way or the other since.
Edit: From some preliminary research as best I can tell, the copyright law has been increased - though still has a limit. Prior to 1976 Trek would have had a copyright good for 56 years. Meaning in about 15 years - had not the law been changed - Star Trek would have become public domain.
As it stands now Trek's copyright will expire in about 2061.
Or 95 years from it's original copyright year(the law used to allow a mere 56 years).
Only 49 more years to go!
Assuming they don't change the law again.
I have done some initial inquiries with the Smithsonian. Here are the important parts of the response (first the good news):
(1) When you donate an item to the Smithsonian, you have to sign a "Deed of Gift." The deed includes all rights to the item, including copyrights.
And now the bad news:
(1) You can't access the 11 footer. The current display is not designed for easy access. Period. They were pretty clear on that issue. This is designed to protect the item from damage (mainly for people with all thumbs and/or are clumsy, such as myself) and deterioration.
(2) There were no 3D scans done of the Grey Lady at any time. Not when she came into the Smithsonian's collection (not surprising since she entered the collection in 1974) and not during the 2 "refits" she has undergone for new displays since then. They used a simple measuring tape to determine what was necessary for storage and display. Caveat - on the plus side, they did do an x-ray of the Grey Lady during the restoration before she was placed in her current display.
I hope this doesn't burst anyone's bubble, but until sometime in the future when someone develops a 3D scanner that can measure objects through plexiglass (at least I think that is the material used to make the Enterprise's display case), there is no way to get accurate 3D scans (unless of course the Smithsonian were to do it themselves, which is unlikely, unless they need to move the display and get a major letter writing campaign to do just that - hey it kept the original series on for an additional 2 years).
I still think that we can "borrow" it for a little while and take it back. If Nicolas Cage can do it in "National Treasure" with the Declaration of Independence, surely a bunch of techno-geeks like us can pull it off!
(1) When you donate an item to the Smithsonian, you have to sign a "Deed of Gift." The deed includes all rights to the item, including copyrights.
And now the bad news:
(1) You can't access the 11 footer. The current display is not designed for easy access. Period. They were pretty clear on that issue. This is designed to protect the item from damage (mainly for people with all thumbs and/or are clumsy, such as myself) and deterioration.
(2) There were no 3D scans done of the Grey Lady at any time. Not when she came into the Smithsonian's collection (not surprising since she entered the collection in 1974) and not during the 2 "refits" she has undergone for new displays since then. They used a simple measuring tape to determine what was necessary for storage and display. Caveat - on the plus side, they did do an x-ray of the Grey Lady during the restoration before she was placed in her current display.
I hope this doesn't burst anyone's bubble, but until sometime in the future when someone develops a 3D scanner that can measure objects through plexiglass (at least I think that is the material used to make the Enterprise's display case), there is no way to get accurate 3D scans (unless of course the Smithsonian were to do it themselves, which is unlikely, unless they need to move the display and get a major letter writing campaign to do just that - hey it kept the original series on for an additional 2 years).
I still think that we can "borrow" it for a little while and take it back. If Nicolas Cage can do it in "National Treasure" with the Declaration of Independence, surely a bunch of techno-geeks like us can pull it off!
Sounds good, now all we need is a plan......
Drink enough and we might even be able to come up with one!! At that point of course we will have hit the level of drunkeness at which we think we are invisible and indestructible, so we can just make a run for it.
Oh good grief. Was nobody listening? As I said before, there are *many* software options that can take whatever pictures you have of an object and create a 3D model of it. Even Sketchup has a limited version of this! (Although with Sketchup, you're doing most of the work, not the software.)
Not only that, but it's probably possible to get a laser scan of the model. Think about it - since when is plexiglass opaque to a laser? You don't need to be right next to the model to measure it, and I've personally seen such a system in action taking a 3D scan of the interior structure of a Chinook.
On the bright side, Paramount did scan the refit at one point.
On the not so bright side,
3D models created with those scans have proven that there scans done possess major flaws and were either done incorrectly or the data distorted during compilation.
NovaDesigns knows quite a lot about this situation and has commented on it in great detail elsewhere I believe in a thread in the modelbuilder.com Star Trek forum.
On the not so bright side,
3D models created with those scans have proven that there scans done possess major flaws and were either done incorrectly or the data distorted during compilation.
NovaDesigns knows quite a lot about this situation and has commented on it in great detail elsewhere I believe in a thread in the modelbuilder.com Star Trek forum.
Sounds like a piece of cake!!!
With your knowledge, skills and abilities you could probably do it in an afternoon.
Maybe some of your military or aviation buddies would not mind you borrowing the proper $300,000 worth of equipment?
Good luck scanning through thick Plexiglass(which is not defect free optical glass).
Bring about a dozen different filters with you and let us know what wavelength worked properly.
You make it seem so simple I'm sure we'll hear something back within a day or two...
Thanks for volunteering! :thumbsup:
I'm going to go watch my favorite currently running Sci-Fi show - CSI.
Not all science fiction is set in the future, you know.
KirkTrekModeler
Commander
USS Jack Riley said:
Sounds good, now all we need is a plan......
I have a plan. Let's please try to keep this thread on track. The plan is to collect as much know data and transfer that data to an accurate set of prints. Oyl Pslyk sent me a newer, better, faster, more... file and I've forwarded everything to Frontline who is going to upload some standard sized sheets. In the interim, I'm going to post what I can, also Oyl has started a datbase file. Can we concentrate on getting the data? Let's make this a team effort and not get sidetracked on the same fights and legalize that a lot of threads get bogged down with....Please?
If some additional actual informational posts would be uploaded that would cut down anyone thinking there is a void of substance that needs to be filled.
Let's see some pictures already.
It would also be advisable that lineart work might be saved in PNG format as opposed to JPEG. JPEG distorts and muddies up line art and can compress and further reduce it's own quality almost every time you edit/open/save it.
PNG format compresses well, was designed for architectural drawings and has none of those problems.
Let's see some pictures already.
It would also be advisable that lineart work might be saved in PNG format as opposed to JPEG. JPEG distorts and muddies up line art and can compress and further reduce it's own quality almost every time you edit/open/save it.
PNG format compresses well, was designed for architectural drawings and has none of those problems.
KirkTrekModeler
Commander
ChuckPR said:
Let's see some pictures already.
As you wish. Here are some of Oyl Pslyk's newer prints, as well as links to existing prints. I'd like to see all of the known facts brought into a couple of posts. That seems like a nice place to start.
Original prints and data..... http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/uss-enterprise-space-cruiser.php
Alan Sinclair's prints. http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sinclair-enterprise.php
Charles Casimiros' prints... http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/ccd-enterprise.php
Original "Public Resource Enterprise." http://bruts_3.tripod.com/public_resource_enterprise/index.html
Idic page.http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/enterprise.html
Charles Adams detail description.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/6242amu/nacelle_grid_series.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/6242amu/nacelle_grid_perest2.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/6242amu/imp_fabr.jpg
My patterns for the inner nacelle and pylon grill.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/6242amu/anacellegrill.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/6242amu/apylongrillcorrect.jpg
Known specs from Alan Sinclair's PRE page.
Saucer diameter: 152.4 cm (60 inches)
Nacelle length: 183.5 cm (72.25 inches)
Engineering hull length: 124.5 cm (49 inches) without antenna, with antenna: 135.9 cm (53.5 inches)
Distance between centerlines of nacelles: 96.5 cm (38 inches)
Overall length: 342.9 cm (134 inches)
Overall height: 81.3 cm (32 inches)
Weight: 91 kg (200 lb)
Shaw's reference for this thread. http://www.shawcomputing.net/racerx/trek_stuff/1701_reference.jpg
That seems like an awful good Start.
Here are a couple of notes as well.
1) The main Engineering Section apears to be a cone, however, the flat details on each side of the hull and on the bottom give the apearance of making it look as if there is a flattened area. I do not believe this is so.
2)There are eleven fins, blades, or protrusions on the port and STB side of the engineering section, between two larger protrusions. See prints.
3) There are ten lights in each nacelle cap, that run on a random circuit, however five of those seem to be on more often and are in the shape of a star. See picture... Coming.
There are also twelve blades inside the domes.
4) There are three small lights on the back of the engineering section leading from the shuttlebay observation dome to the neck, all in a row. This is shown on some prints not on others.
Anyone who wishes to add detail lists, or verifiable dimensions, please do so.
KTM
Similar threads
