Hi ..I haven't been to the board for awhile, but I thought I'd start up again since I have a little more time with my busy schedule. So here is my question. In "Balance of Terror" The Enterprise uses its phasers which are set for proximity blast to increase the chance of hitting a cloaked vessel. My question is what would the reason be for the Enterprise to fire it phasers in proximity blast setting if it's target was visible such as in "Errand of Mercy" (Remastered FX).
Proximity blast phasers
- Thread starter therritn
- Start date
Aside for reusing canned FX...in universe, the Klingon ship suddenly blasts the Enterprise with only the automatic deflectors as a warning. Could the "automatic" deflectors in EOM be tied to the "motion" sensors discussed in BOT?
Sounds like the Klingon ship was cloaked (or hiding behind some unmentioned asteroid, or just zipped in so fast without any warning). If we assume it was cloaked, then proximity blast phasers is the proven tactic as previously used against the cloaked Romulan ship. In the original, non-TOS-R, no Klingon ship was ever seen on ship's view screen, only detonating phaser blasts with a stoic " We hit him" first from Spock then a "We got him" from a relieved Sulu.
In the TOS-R, they inserted in a quick view screen front shot of a fully visible D-7. If not cloaked, then there is no reason to use the proximity blast phasers. I get the feeling that proximity or full dispersal phasers were only used because they couldn't get a visual weapon lock in BOT, so if visual, they should use regular phaser beams or photon torpedoes. This is good example of how one small creative change in FX can change the narrative. Since the Klingon ship was easily defeated with a proximity phaser, either the ship was a smaller vessel like a scout (as seen in Friday's Child), or the Klingons have real problems with the fragility of their D-7's in combat. 
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Proximity phasers might be ideal for engagements at relatively close-range. You can either flush out an enemy ship that's hiding nearby or lay down a field of fire to keep a more maneuverable opponent at a distance perhaps.
For What It's Worth: In the game Star Fleet Battles, there is no such thing as "proximity phasers", but there are proximity photon torpedoes. They do half the damage (because they explode farther away from the target) but have twice the odds of hitting. The mode is set at the time of launch (i.e. a last second change) but can only be used at longer ranges (more than 80,000 km).
The conceptual problem with Kirk's space depth charges is that he shouldn't be carrying any. After all, he doesn't know that submarines exist!
Of course, in the greater Trek context, invisible ships are actually old news at the time of "Balance of Terror", and Romulans are infamous for using visual trickery in combat. So Kirk does have an excuse for carrying dedicated anti-cloak hardware (or at least dedicated anti-cloak settings for his hardware). Reading the episode that way takes some doing, though.
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, in the greater Trek context, invisible ships are actually old news at the time of "Balance of Terror", and Romulans are infamous for using visual trickery in combat. So Kirk does have an excuse for carrying dedicated anti-cloak hardware (or at least dedicated anti-cloak settings for his hardware). Reading the episode that way takes some doing, though.
Timo Saloniemi
That's what I thought.
I mean, it's not like they could rig a phaser beam to just explode at a certain point, could they? The beam would have to hit something first.
A torpedo, OTOH, can be rigged to blow at any point.
OTOH, we might decide the phaser beam is sheathed in a jacket of some sort, and taking off the jacket will make the destructive effect splash whichever way.
Jacketing might be done for all sorts of purposes, such as making the thing move FTL. Some DS9 and VOY episodes describe the phaser beam as essentially a destructive transporter beam that can also act in its "original" capacity and transmit agents such as poisons or nanoprobes to the target. And indeed the name is suggestive enough, involving the "phasing" famous from transporter operations, too.
The transporter is a fire-and-forget device where the victim is first "phased" into a ghost of sorts and then sent through walls and space towards the target, where he suddenly pops back into our reality. Proximity phasers might be what you get when you beam out pure destruction, and regular phasers is what you get when you harness that a bit.
Timo Saloniemi
Jacketing might be done for all sorts of purposes, such as making the thing move FTL. Some DS9 and VOY episodes describe the phaser beam as essentially a destructive transporter beam that can also act in its "original" capacity and transmit agents such as poisons or nanoprobes to the target. And indeed the name is suggestive enough, involving the "phasing" famous from transporter operations, too.
The transporter is a fire-and-forget device where the victim is first "phased" into a ghost of sorts and then sent through walls and space towards the target, where he suddenly pops back into our reality. Proximity phasers might be what you get when you beam out pure destruction, and regular phasers is what you get when you harness that a bit.
Timo Saloniemi
Balance of Terror was S1E14, Production #9. Photon torpedoes got first mention in episode Arena (S1E18, Production #17); and we saw them fired on-screen as smooth red blobs different from the proximity burst phaser. The FX editor didn't do a great job on Arena; the ship phasers and redshirt disintegration were sloppy, too. Just my option. 
The next photon torpedo was seen in Season 2, The Changeling (S2E3, Production #37) where they used the same FX as the proximity burst phaser from Balance of Terror (I guess it looked more exciting).
The next photon torpedo was seen in Season 2, The Changeling (S2E3, Production #37) where they used the same FX as the proximity burst phaser from Balance of Terror (I guess it looked more exciting).
Klingon ships did not have cloaking technology in TOS! Not before the movies at least and before you start moaning, ENT & DSC don't count!
JB
JB
Nobody said they wouldn't have had that. And FWIW, a Klingon ship was a blurry blob to the sensors in "Friday's Child", while ships from other cultures were not. Except for folks like Thasians, who also appeared out of nowhere right next to the hero ship.
The idea that invisibility tech would be new in "Balace of Terror" is about as silly as the idea that photon torpedoes would be new in "Arena", that is, the launchers bolted onto Kirk's ship two days before that adventure. But, well, "BoT" is a bit silly no matter what, because it both wants to have a WWII style ship vs. sub fight, and pretend that the ship didn't even know subs can exist. In the latter case, Kirk really shouldn't have depth charges available, but we're much better off assuming he does come prepared - exactly because the universe is so full of surprises. Odds are that somebody from his organization has been surprised this exact way before, then...
Timo Saloniemi
The idea that invisibility tech would be new in "Balace of Terror" is about as silly as the idea that photon torpedoes would be new in "Arena", that is, the launchers bolted onto Kirk's ship two days before that adventure. But, well, "BoT" is a bit silly no matter what, because it both wants to have a WWII style ship vs. sub fight, and pretend that the ship didn't even know subs can exist. In the latter case, Kirk really shouldn't have depth charges available, but we're much better off assuming he does come prepared - exactly because the universe is so full of surprises. Odds are that somebody from his organization has been surprised this exact way before, then...
Timo Saloniemi
The weapons in BoT are photon torpedoes in all but name. Of course, photon torpedoes hadn't been thought of yet, and this is the first time we see shipboard weapons fired at all. It's just Early Installment Weirdness, along with the idea they're fired from belowdecks rather than a button on the bridge.
Nowadays Proximity Blast Phasers are on the big pile of forgotten things, along with the conquest of Vulcan and lasers in "The Cage"
Nowadays Proximity Blast Phasers are on the big pile of forgotten things, along with the conquest of Vulcan and lasers in "The Cage"
Yep. Real world explanation that torpedoes wernt thought of yet.
Wouldn't work anyways, were dealing with hundreds of not thousands of miles of distance. Even a nuclear blast would cover.. A mile? Real lucky to hit anything.
Wouldn't work anyways, were dealing with hundreds of not thousands of miles of distance. Even a nuclear blast would cover.. A mile? Real lucky to hit anything.
It's way worse than that, really...
The first time Kirk tries the proximity blasts, the two ships are basically at point blank ranges, dancing around a comet's tail while apparently moving at walking pace. Kirk never quite scores a proper hit, but a glancing blow (however that works with phasers) kills the Centurion. A stroke of luck can probably be excused there.
However, the second time, Kirk opens fire after just having spent a couple of minutes flying away from the target at the very highest warp speed his ship can possibly muster. The distances should be in excess of ten million miles at the very least, that is, assuming that Kirk can barely make lightspeed. And probably billions of miles, assuming (as we apparently should) that his ship can really fly from star to star in less than a week when doing proper warp speed.
If Kirk can't score a proper hit when he's a few hundred kilometers from his prey and the prey is making a hole in cometary gases, then him scoring a hit from a distance a billion times greater indeed has to be "the wildest stroke of luck", as Stiles puts it.
Except, of course, our heroes don't really have to count on luck. The ship may be invisible, but Spock has it on his sights all the time anyway. That is, as long as the Romulans keep moving. When they drift, they can't be aimed at; when they use engines, they can be aimed at, even if with a slight loss of precision. And this slight loss need not be proportional to the distances involved at all.
Timo Saloniemi
The first time Kirk tries the proximity blasts, the two ships are basically at point blank ranges, dancing around a comet's tail while apparently moving at walking pace. Kirk never quite scores a proper hit, but a glancing blow (however that works with phasers) kills the Centurion. A stroke of luck can probably be excused there.
However, the second time, Kirk opens fire after just having spent a couple of minutes flying away from the target at the very highest warp speed his ship can possibly muster. The distances should be in excess of ten million miles at the very least, that is, assuming that Kirk can barely make lightspeed. And probably billions of miles, assuming (as we apparently should) that his ship can really fly from star to star in less than a week when doing proper warp speed.
If Kirk can't score a proper hit when he's a few hundred kilometers from his prey and the prey is making a hole in cometary gases, then him scoring a hit from a distance a billion times greater indeed has to be "the wildest stroke of luck", as Stiles puts it.
Except, of course, our heroes don't really have to count on luck. The ship may be invisible, but Spock has it on his sights all the time anyway. That is, as long as the Romulans keep moving. When they drift, they can't be aimed at; when they use engines, they can be aimed at, even if with a slight loss of precision. And this slight loss need not be proportional to the distances involved at all.
Timo Saloniemi
Phasers (as red beams) were first seen on screen in The Combomite Maneuver. All weapon firings are shown at the end in the @Tallguy article: http://www.trekplace.com/tosfxcatalog.html.
Ranges aren't given, but typically, max. phaser range is only ~100,000 km. The warp speed maneuvering of the Enterprise is more likely like a hummingbird bouncing around the target area, carpet bombing with phaser bursts.
I guess we could argue that Stiles only really opens fire after the Enterprise has backtracked something like 90% of her warp retreat already, but even this would necessarily be orders of magnitude farther from the target than the mere lightsecond range sometimes suggested. Perhaps it's just a tradeoff, and 23rd century phaser beams can cross as much empty space as a 22nd century Martian comet-deflector beam, just with an associated slight or severe loss of strength?
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
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