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Profitability of Star Trek Movies

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I've given facts, figures,and links if you don't like them, that's upto you but I certainly think very interesting and carry a lot of weight, personally I currently believe in these quite strongly, I doubt anybody is happy with the us return from into darkness a that a raw figure
You've given no figures with a provable mechanism of accuracy. I could give figures, too, and in my figures I could make it seem like STID quadrupled its profit, and they would be just as "accurate". Just because you believe in them, doesn't make them factual.
 
...put it this way even if you don't want to admit it made a loss, it vastly under performed and failed to meet studio expectations

Unless one works for Paramount and has documentation that backs that supposition then that is all it is a supposition. We have a $190 million dollar budget figure that has been thrown around, but none of us here really know how much Into Darkness cost. We have vague ideas about how much it brought in, but we in no way know if it is accurate or how the revenue pie was split up.

Star Trek Into Darkness could be anything from a remarkable financial success (doubtful) to a crippling financial failure (doubtful) to somewhere in between. But trying to apply a one-size fits all formula to every movie and taking vague financial data to come up with a concrete argument about a movie being a success or failure seems to be a fools' errand to me.
 
...put it this way even if you don't want to admit it made a loss, it vastly under performed and failed to meet studio expectations

Unless one works for Paramount and has documentation that backs that supposition then that is all it is a supposition. We have a $190 million dollar budget figure that has been thrown around, but none of us here really know how much Into Darkness cost. We have vague ideas about how much it brought in, but we in no way know if it is accurate or how the revenue pie was split up.

Star Trek Into Darkness could be anything from a remarkable financial success (doubtful) to a crippling financial failure (doubtful) to somewhere in between. But trying to apply a one-size fits all formula to every movie and taking vague financial data to come up with a concrete argument about a movie being a success or failure seems to be a fools' errand to me.
But it backs up the desired conclusion that it failed, so, it must be accurate :devil:
 
A product's value is never just a matter of "Put X in and get Y out," especially when inducing such immeasurable variables as "marketing" into the equation If that were the case, then one could figure-finagle such that everything is sold for a loss. Because everything is ultimately about marketing. But it's not so much the goods that are being sold as the service.

Take cars for example. Most make/models never recoup their production costs; many fail to even pay for the R&D. Manufactures over produce to the point where there are massive lots filled with seemingly endless boundaries of (otherwise brand new) unsold cars. Granted, the production cost of each individual car isn't that much, relatively speaking, but when the cost of all of them is added together, it becomes a rather significant scab on the model's annual take.

Yet car commercials are just about the most frequent and ubiquitous form advertising around. I read somewhere once that the combined cost all the major car companies spend on advertising could pay for one car for each American family.

The thing is, you might see F-150, Prius, and Beetle commercials, but they aren't really selling the cars. They're selling Ford, Toyota, and Volkswagen.

Consumer electronics works much the same way. The electronics manufactures know that if they sold their refrigerators, microwave ovens, and color TVs at prices necessary to get their money back in a reasonable amount of time, they'd have to price those things much higher than what is viably marketable. Video game consoles are notorious for this.

Sony doesn't put out Playstation commercials just to sell Playstations. It does it more to sell Sony. (Not that its done a very good job of this lately. :ouch: ) In fact, in many of these commercials the Sony logo appears as much--if not more--than the Playstation logo.

Companies do this to promote consumer happiness and confidence. Consumer happiness and confidence translates into shareholder happiness and confidence.

It's no different with movies. The Paramount logo appears in the STiD trailer just as much as the Star Trek logo. The trailer isn't jus their to tell people theirs a new Trek movie coming out. It's there to ensure people Paramount--and in turn, Viacom--is still relevant. Stocks go up. (Ideally, of course.)

Therefore, it's not very accurate to put Star Trek's marketing costs solely on Star Trek. It's money that Paramount had already set aside for advertising as was going to spend anyway. They budget their estimated marketing costs annually and allocate accordingly. In some years Star Trek has seen a bigger piece of that pie. In some years not.

So saying that a film has to make at least twice its budget to "pay for advertising" is nonsense.
 
A product's value is never just a matter of "Put X in and get Y out," especially when inducing such immeasurable variables as "marketing" into the equation If that were the case, then one could figure-finagle such that everything is sold for a loss. Because everything is ultimately about marketing. But it's not so much the goods that are being sold as the service.

Take cars for example. Most make/models never recoup their production costs; many fail to even pay for the R&D. Manufactures over produce to the point where there are massive lots filled with seemingly endless boundaries of (otherwise brand new) unsold cars. Granted, the production cost of each individual car isn't that much, relatively speaking, but when the cost of all of them is added together, it becomes a rather significant scab on the model's annual take.

Yet car commercials are just about the most frequent and ubiquitous form advertising around. I read somewhere once that the combined cost all the major car companies spend on advertising could pay for one car for each American family.

The thing is, you might see F-150, Prius, and Beetle commercials, but they aren't really selling the cars. They're selling Ford, Toyota, and Volkswagen.

Consumer electronics works much the same way. The electronics manufactures know that if they sold their refrigerators, microwave ovens, and color TVs at prices necessary to get their money back in a reasonable amount of time, they'd have to price those things much higher than what is viably marketable. Video game consoles are notorious for this.

Sony doesn't put out Playstation commercials just to sell Playstations. It does it more to sell Sony. (Not that its done a very good job of this lately. :ouch: ) In fact, in many of these commercials the Sony logo appears as much--if not more--than the Playstation logo.

Companies do this to promote consumer happiness and confidence. Consumer happiness and confidence translates into shareholder happiness and confidence.

It's no different with movies. The Paramount logo appears in the STiD trailer just as much as the Star Trek logo. The trailer isn't jus their to tell people theirs a new Trek movie coming out. It's there to ensure people Paramount--and in turn, Viacom--is still relevant. Stocks go up. (Ideally, of course.)

Therefore, it's not very accurate to put Star Trek's marketing costs solely on Star Trek. It's money that Paramount had already set aside for advertising as was going to spend anyway. They budget their estimated marketing costs annually and allocate accordingly. In some years Star Trek has seen a bigger piece of that pie. In some years not.

So saying that a film has to make at least twice its budget to "pay for advertising" is nonsense.

This post needs to be pinned at the top of the forum. :techman:
 
So your saying the paramount investors are happy to lose 15% of their money invested for prestige? God I hope ur not running my pension fund
 
So your saying the paramount investors are happy to lose 15% of their money invested for prestige? God I hope ur not running my pension fund

STID made 400% of their budget back, I'd say that's pretty good!*




* They didn't really, but see, I can throw out facts and figures without showing the working mechanism, and stand by them.
 
So yeah the formula
(((55% of Domestic) + (15% International)) - Production Budget) / Production Budget

Based on that formula the films rank like this:
1.Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan (287.38% return)
2.Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (165.98% return)
3.Star Trek III: The Search For Spock (142.44% return)
4.Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (64.78% return)
5.Star Trek: The Motion Picture (53.58% return)
6.Star Trek: First Contact (28.94% return)
7.Star Trek: Generations (27.02% return)
8.Star Trek XI (14.96% return)
9.Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (4.71% return)
10.Star Trek: Into Darkness (14.97% loss)
11.Star Trek: Insurrection (34.65% loss)
12.Star Trek: Nemesis (54.34% loss)

I agree that there no harm in a little number crunching.

As others have said, you also need to add DVD/Blue Ray sales.

I believe that Paramount acknowledged STiD made a 3% return on investment so it couldn't have made a 15% loss, which is perhaps where the DVD/Blue Ray figures will carry it across the line into the barely profitable column.

The reason Paramount were very unhappy was they were hoping to give their investors a 10% RoI.

***

As a aside, I believe in North America, the studio keeps 90% of the 1st weekend take which is why a massive opening weekend is important.

:)
 
They were so very unhappy they're making another one.

I doubt they were happy with THE FINAL FRONTIER's performance, but that didn't stop them from making another. If there's a chance to make a film that does better, they'll go for it, especially when there's a 50th anniversary to generate hype.
 
So your saying the paramount investors are happy to lose 15% of their money invested for prestige? God I hope ur not running my pension fund

Since there's very little evidence that Paramount lost 15% on Star Trek into Darkness, you'll forgive me if I don't take you at your word.

You keep banging on as if the numbers your're throwing out have merit. We've all pointed out the various flaws in your reasoning but here you are, fingers in your ears, crying 'LALALALALALALALA" as loud as you can.

It's almost as if you didn't come here for an actually discussion.

Funny, that.
 
They were so very unhappy they're making another one.

Well they have to.

I said Paramount was unhappy that the movie didn't make a bigger profit, not that they were unhappy period.

It's a normal reaction, the same as if you or I got a pay rise but not what we had asked for.

STiD made a slim profit so the 'sequel-itis' Hollywood logic dictates another movie will be made.

Star Trek is one of Paramount's recognised franchises.

They'll do what they've always done.

Cut the budget and make some changes to the creative team behind the next film.

With the change in director and story/script, it does give me confidence Paramount still wants a major hit on their hands and still intends to market ST2016 as a major summer blockbuster.

:)
 
I believe that Paramount acknowledged STiD made a 3% return on investment so it couldn't have made a 15% loss, which is perhaps where the DVD/Blue Ray figures will carry it across the line into the barely profitable column.

The reason Paramount were very unhappy was they were hoping to give their investors a 10% RoI.

Who did they tell this to? I assume you have some kind of proof?
 
As a general rule, you're allowed one big coincidence early in a story before you're taking advantage of the audience's patience. ;)
In Trek's world, and a time travel story no less, Spock's "currents of time" explain the rest.
I just posted a New York Times article that states Into Darkness made a profit.
Oh please. NYT is clearly bought and paid for by Bad Robot.
They were so very unhappy they're making another one.

I doubt they were happy with THE FINAL FRONTIER's performance, but that didn't stop them from making another. If there's a chance to make a film that does better, they'll go for it, especially when there's a 50th anniversary to generate hype.
I fail to see how things would be any different had ID made a billion dollars. Another big budget, action packed Trek movie is coming. Failing to see how this isn't a win.
 
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