I recall thet was no battle at the Binary Stars in the MU. Were there any discrepencies in missing planets and other astronomical objects?
Prime /Mirror universe differences
- Thread starter Ronald Held
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Actually I think that battle did take place, MU Burnham destroyed all the Klingon ships or something like that.
I stand corrected on that. Was there any mention of missing star systems or planets?
I agree that the physical universes should be identical, but I vaguely recall some system(s) were missing.
^ If there were, we might be able to chalk that up to deliberate action by the Empire (in TOS we hear that MU Kirk ordered the destruction of a rebel home planet).
Didn't He mean glassing the surface versus destroying the planet?
^ According to the ISS Enterprise computer, Kirk’s first action for the Empire was, and I quote, “suppression of Gorlan uprising through destruction of rebel home planet”.
But does that mean the planet was destroyed or just the Ecosystem?
When our heroes first hit the MU, Saru says something odd:
Now, Saru could simply be saying that familiar Starfleet units and Federation colonies are not sending the expected signals - that is, "is not where it's supposed to be" would refer to absence.
But the phrasing also could (and, frankly, should) mean that things are where they are not supposed to be. And if the "navigational array" tells this, then there might be star systems in the MU that are in different places from their Regular Universe counterparts, entire nebulae drifting off, perhaps even planets that spin in the wrong direction...
Perhaps such discrepancies would even be necessary to explain the different quality of light in the MU?
Timo Saloniemi
Now, Saru could simply be saying that familiar Starfleet units and Federation colonies are not sending the expected signals - that is, "is not where it's supposed to be" would refer to absence.
But the phrasing also could (and, frankly, should) mean that things are where they are not supposed to be. And if the "navigational array" tells this, then there might be star systems in the MU that are in different places from their Regular Universe counterparts, entire nebulae drifting off, perhaps even planets that spin in the wrong direction...
Perhaps such discrepancies would even be necessary to explain the different quality of light in the MU?
Timo Saloniemi
That resolution is the key. If beacons and Federation broadcast transmitters not active, but the systems are,then I might assume MWI. If systems are not where they are expected,then I assume another universe.
It's not like there's a big compass rose painted on the side of Sagittarius A*, so the only way Saru could determine where they are relative to the center of the galaxy with enough precision to know they didn't miss their target is if the rest of the galaxy was pretty much exactly where it was supposed to be. So "almost nothing else" would have to be referring to artificial signals.
I should rewatch that episode. My impression is that nav beacons would be tried first. Then look for Star patterns that stellar cartographers have logged. Too far out of Federation space,and maybe use pulsars band Galaxies.
If some systems were shifted in position or absent, that makes it harder.
If some systems were shifted in position or absent, that makes it harder.
Supposedly, Saru would expect full support from artifical navaids because he is where SB 46 ought to be. The navaids missing is expected - Terran ones wouldn't readily interact with those of USS Discovery, as not only would they be tuned to ships with ISS on their hulls, but they would be expected to be much less alien-user-friendly than their regular counterparts.
But Saru does get a position fix, and he says it is wrt solid astronomical references. He just doesn't specify how he got that fix. But let's view this from his position. If the artificial navaids are working and giving him the fix, why would he then declare they are off? Or, conversely, if they are not working properly, how do they give him a fix he can trust?
From Saru's POV, the statements he makes would only be founded if he used the navigational array to study natural phenomena for the reliable fix, and then found that other stuff (including artificial beacons but quite possibly also some details of the natural realm) is off. "Position relative to galactic center" vs "almost nothing in place" go together very nicely if the intent is to say "We are exactly at the coordinates of Manhattan, but apparently Times Square is 450 km that way".
Timo Saloniemi
But Saru does get a position fix, and he says it is wrt solid astronomical references. He just doesn't specify how he got that fix. But let's view this from his position. If the artificial navaids are working and giving him the fix, why would he then declare they are off? Or, conversely, if they are not working properly, how do they give him a fix he can trust?
From Saru's POV, the statements he makes would only be founded if he used the navigational array to study natural phenomena for the reliable fix, and then found that other stuff (including artificial beacons but quite possibly also some details of the natural realm) is off. "Position relative to galactic center" vs "almost nothing in place" go together very nicely if the intent is to say "We are exactly at the coordinates of Manhattan, but apparently Times Square is 450 km that way".
Timo Saloniemi
I thought that he could not access the Empire beacons,and then looked at standard navigational stars and galaxies. If stars and systems were missing, that would slow down getting a position and time fix.
Implicit was there was no time difference between when they were in the Pu versus MU?
Implicit was there was no time difference between when they were in the Pu versus MU?
You don't suppose that when creating these episodes, they took "Mirror Universe" literally? As in, the entire universe has the position of everything mirrored with respect to our own. It would account for Saru not being able to find anything where he expects it to be, and would also explain the mirrored continents on the Terran Empire badge (despite the discontinuity with previous shown logos). Honestly, I'm not really a fan of this idea, just trying to find a behind-the-scenes explanation.
Halka had to be in the same location in "mirror mirror" for the transporter swaps to occur.
Well, the natural assumption would be that the MU flips around using the transition point as the focal point...
That is, when Kirk transitions to MU at Halka, the rest of the universe is mirrored around Halka but the planet stays put. When Bashir, Kira or Sisko crosses over, it's Bajor that stays put while everything else swaps left for right and clockwise for widdershins. Etc.
Timo Saloniemi
That is, when Kirk transitions to MU at Halka, the rest of the universe is mirrored around Halka but the planet stays put. When Bashir, Kira or Sisko crosses over, it's Bajor that stays put while everything else swaps left for right and clockwise for widdershins. Etc.
Timo Saloniemi
Interesting. I will have to think about that.
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