Predictions for Phase 2 of Star Trek

[FederationHistorian]

I would've wanted to see a Quentin Tarantino Star Trek movie, but that was always a pipedream. It would've either been the best thing ever or the worst thing ever, no real in-between, but I would've had a great time either way.

It definitely would have been an interesting experiment.

 

[Paul755]

I guess I’m more pessimistic. I don’t think there is going to be a “phase 2”. At least not something comparable to what we have seen from nu-Trek so far.

Not counting LD S4 and Disco S5, we still have SNW S3, Lower Decks S5, Academy S1 and the S31 movie all coming in the future. Assuming all that still happens, I would expect that’s the majority of what we’ll see going forward.

I think at best Legacy happens but as a movie not a series.

 

[Lord Garth]

I guess I’m more pessimistic. I don’t think there is going to be a “phase 2”. At least not something comparable to what we have seen from nu-Trek so far.

I think we've been in "Phase 2" since Spring of 2022.

As far as live-action goes, except for one interruption with Michael Chabon's Picard Season 1 in the middle, the first four seasons of Discovery were by themselves almost until the end. Since DSC Season 4, we've had two seasons of Terry Matalas' Picard and now two seasons of SNW. Even though we're getting Season 5 of DSC in 2024, it's the Post-Disco Era now. DSC S5 is the exception that proves the rule.

But I do agree with you that Kurtzman Trek peaked in output during the 2021-2022 Season. It's not going to be like that again. It was their version of Berman Trek from early-1994 to early-1995 where TNG ended, DS9 was ongoing, Generations came out with Kirk meeting Picard, and VOY started.

IMO:
Phase 1 = Discovery and Chabon's Picard
Phase 2 = Strange New Worlds and Matalas' Picard

 

[FederationHistorian]

I think at best Legacy happens but as a movie not a series.

If Legacy does become a movie instead of a tv series, it will probably be split into two parts. And would telegraph that it would be about the mystery of the transwarp conduit from PIC S2, since that’s the last mystery that needs to be solved from that show.

I can’t imagine that they would be able to give everyone the time they need for their lines in a single movie - the TNG cast, the PIC cast from S1-2, the possible Legacy cast that is from PIC S3 and any DS9 and VOY cameos that were planned but didn’t make it into PIC – with a single 2 hour movie. Not to mention the budget. Seems more likely they split it in two to give everyone their lines and scenes and create a pair of mid-budget movies. That would be the equivalent of spending on a single Kelvinverse film anyways.

 

[Paul755]

I think we've been in "Phase 2" since Spring of 2022.

As far as live-action goes, except for one interruption with Michael Chabon's Picard Season 1 in the middle, the first four seasons of Discovery were by themselves almost until the end. Since DSC Season 4, we've had two seasons of Terry Matalas' Picard and now two seasons of SNW. Even though we're getting Season 5 of DSC in 2024, it's the Post-Disco Era now. DSC S5 is the exception that proves the rule.

But I do agree with you that Kurtzman Trek peaked in output during the 2021-2022 Season. It's not going to be like that again. It was their version of Berman Trek from early-1994 to early-1995 where TNG ended, DS9 was ongoing, Generations came out with Kirk meeting Picard, and VOY started.

IMO:
Phase 1 = Discovery and Chabon's Picard
Phase 2 = Strange New Worlds and Matalas' Picard

I think you could fit Lower Decks into Phase 1 as you have it there. It started just after Picard S1 if I recall. At least S1 and 2.

If Legacy does become a movie instead of a tv series, it will probably be split into two parts. And would telegraph that it would be about the mystery of the transwarp conduit from PIC S2, since that’s the last mystery that needs to be solved from that show.

I can’t imagine that they would be able to give everyone the time they need for their lines in a single movie - the TNG cast, the PIC cast from S1-2, the possible Legacy cast that is from PIC S3 and any DS9 and VOY cameos that were planned but didn’t make it into PIC – with a single 2 hour movie. Not to mention the budget. Seems more likely they split it in two to give everyone their lines and scenes and create a pair of mid-budget movies. That would be the equivalent of spending on a single Kelvinverse film anyways.

I personally don’t think we are getting any version of Legacy despite the fan outcry for it. That said, if they were to greenlight it as a movie instead of a series alot of the stuff Matalas has said wants to do with it (a million cameos, big sprawling plot lines, etc…) would get tossed aside. I would expect some cameos like Janeway, Picard and/or Bev Crusher and maybe Geordi but that would be the extent of it.

Look at all the theatrical movies as the example. Everyone gets a moment or two depending on the movie but the focus is still mostly on Kirk, Spock and Bones for TOS and Picard and Data in the TNG movies. Legacy would probably focus on Seven, Raffi and Jack.

 

[FederationHistorian]

if they were to greenlight it as a movie instead of a series alot of the stuff Matalas has said wants to do with it (a million cameos, big sprawling plot lines, etc…) would get tossed aside. I would expect some cameos like Janeway, Picard and/or Bev Crusher and maybe Geordi but that would be the extent of it.

If Legacy became a movie, would have to become a film series to do everything Matalas wants to do.There just would not be enough time to do everything in a 2 hour movie, and I'm not 100% sure if the audience would sit around for 3 hours for a Star Trek movie. Though no more of the waiting 3-4 year like with the Kelvin films. They’d need a release every 2 years like with the TOS films. If that means less CGI and more practical effects to get them out faster, so be it.

Seven of Nine is popular enough character to be given a chance to lead a movie, and I’d imagine that Picard would play a role in the film. This could possibly be where Picard could revisit his passion for archeology, and basically be Raiders of the Lost Ark in space, since it was never explored in PIC. I think Beverly would tag along as well because of Jack.

Look at all the theatrical movies as the example. Everyone gets a moment or two depending on the movie but the focus is still mostly on Kirk, Spock and Bones for TOS and Picard and Data in the TNG movies. Legacy would probably focus on Seven, Raffi and Jack.

Yes, but Scotty, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu still got something to do in the TOS films, as did Sarek. And in the TNG films, Riker and Geordi got something to do. Troi only had something to do if it involved Riker or the Enterprise crashing. Beverly was just an afterthought in those movies. Worf did have things to do in the movies sometimes, but it did not matter if he didn’t because he was also on DS9 at the time. Even Barclay, Guinan, the EMH and Janeway got something to do in the TNG films. Wesley would have, but his scene was cut from NEM.

Its possible to have Riker and Troi (Kestra’s graduation from Starfleet Acaedmy), Data and Geordi (Data, the La Forges and Soji on Coppelius), and Worf (being Worf) as cameos in a Legacy film, basically passing the torch like how Kirk, Scotty & Chekov passed the torch to TNG.

 

[Paul755]

If Legacy became a movie, would have to become a film series to do everything Matalas wants to do.There just would not be enough time to do everything in a 2 hour movie, and I'm not 100% sure if the audience would sit around for 3 hours for a Star Trek movie. Though no more of the waiting 3-4 year like with the Kelvin films. They’d need a release every 2 years like with the TOS films. If that means less CGI and more practical effects to get them out faster, so be it.

Seven of Nine is popular enough character to be given a chance to lead a movie, and I’d imagine that Picard would play a role in the film. This could possibly be where Picard could revisit his passion for archeology, and basically be Raiders of the Lost Ark in space, since it was never explored in PIC. I think Beverly would tag along as well because of Jack.



Yes, but Scotty, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu still got something to do in the TOS films, as did Sarek. And in the TNG films, Riker and Geordi got something to do. Troi only had something to do if it involved Riker or the Enterprise crashing. Beverly was just an afterthought in those movies. Worf did have things to do in the movies sometimes, but it did not matter if he didn’t because he was also on DS9 at the time. Even Barclay, Guinan, the EMH and Janeway got something to do in the TNG films. Wesley would have, but his scene was cut from NEM.

Its possible to have Riker and Troi (Kestra’s graduation from Starfleet Acaedmy), Data and Geordi (Data, the La Forges and Soji on Coppelius), and Worf (being Worf) as cameos in a Legacy film, basically passing the torch like how Kirk, Scotty & Chekov passed the torch to TNG.

I mean…Matalas would have to do what he can within the confines of a 2hr-2:15hr movie. Lots of stuff that would be in a series would get cut. If they were going to greenlight a series of movies why not just greenlight an actual series.

Any movie would likely be stand alone and if it did well they would give the thumbs up on another. Think of the movie as one of the pilots like “Encounter at Farpoint” or “The Emissary” just without the series pickup.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I mean…Matalas would have to do what he can within the confines of a 2hr-2:15hr movie. Lots of stuff that would be in a series would get cut. If they were going to greenlight a series of movies why not just greenlight an actual series.

Any movie would likely be stand alone and if it did well they would give the thumbs up on another. Think of the movie as one of the pilots like “Encounter at Farpoint” or “The Emissary” just without the series pickup.

Well, with so many ideas, let's try to figure out how it could theoretically work.

• Picard on an archeological expedition with Laris in the Romulan Free State; Elnor and Beverly, as well as Jason Vigo are around. Maybe Jil Orra is too for a sort of quick epilogue to "Chain of Command".

• Ent-G takes on Cadet Kestra-Troi Riker after her graduation.

• New transwarp conduits open near Bajor, the Romulan Free State (maybe Vashti and Freecloud), somewhere in the Klingon Empire, and possibly near the Gorn homeworld. Gives reason for Kira, Janeway, Harry Kim, Fenris Ranger Naomi, Alexander, and Worf to appear in 90 second cameos.

• Maybe the same transwarp conduits are occurring in the Confederation of Earth time and attracts the attention of General Riker and the World Razor.

• Maybe the transwarp conduits are backdoors for the extra-dimensional synth alliance, would be a reason for Data, Soji and Geordi to be in the film, along with a possible revisit to Coppelius.

• Maybe the extra-dimensional synth destroy a planet to show what they can do (I'll choose Remus for this exercise).

• If it becomes big enough threat (assuming Starfleet and the synth don’t just talk out their differences), can involve Wesley, Kore, and other Travellers (maybe Robin Lefler).

• Plot would be a reason to involve Q (explain why he's dying) and a reason to explore Picard as a synth.

• Maybe there’s room for Riker and Troi to appear on a Luna class USS Titan-B.

• Would be a reason to have Sovereign class, Galaxy class, USS Stargazer, Inquiry class, and La Sirena come to Picard’s rescue one final time. as well as have the Romulans, the Jurati Borg, and the XBs to come to the Federation’s aid.

I just managed something. Matalas should be able to, too.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think you could fit Lower Decks into Phase 1 as you have it there. It started just after Picard S1 if I recall. At least S1 and 2.

Lower Decks overlaps with Phase 1 and Phase 2, but I think it fits with the tone of Phase 2 better.

Section 31, even though it's coming out during Phase 2, is really a holdover from Phase 1.

I think the key difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2 of Kurtzman Trek is that Phase 1 wanted to ruffle feathers, while Phase 2 wants to go out of its way to unruffle them.

 

[Paul755]

Well, with so many ideas, let's try to figure out how it could theoretically work.

• Picard on an archeological expedition with Laris in the Romulan Free State; Elnor and Beverly, as well as Jason Vigo are around. Maybe Jil Orra is too for a sort of quick epilogue to "Chain of Command".

• Ent-G takes on Cadet Kestra-Troi Riker after her graduation.

• New transwarp conduits open near Bajor, the Romulan Free State (maybe Vashti and Freecloud), somewhere in the Klingon Empire, and possibly near the Gorn homeworld. Gives reason for Kira, Janeway, Harry Kim, Fenris Ranger Naomi, Alexander, and Worf to appear in 90 second cameos.

• Maybe the same transwarp conduits are occurring in the Confederation of Earth time and attracts the attention of General Riker and the World Razor.

• Maybe the transwarp conduits are backdoors for the extra-dimensional synth alliance, would be a reason for Data, Soji and Geordi to be in the film, along with a possible revisit to Coppelius.

• Maybe the extra-dimensional synth destroy a planet to show what they can do (I'll choose Remus for this exercise).

• If it becomes big enough threat (assuming Starfleet and the synth don’t just talk out their differences), can involve Wesley, Kore, and other Travellers (maybe Robin Lefler).

• Plot would be a reason to involve Q (explain why he's dying) and a reason to explore Picard as a synth.

• Maybe there’s room for Riker and Troi to appear on a Luna class USS Titan-B.

• Would be a reason to have Sovereign class, Galaxy class, USS Stargazer, Inquiry class, and La Sirena come to Picard’s rescue one final time. as well as have the Romulans, the Jurati Borg, and the XBs to come to the Federation’s aid.

I just managed something. Matalas should be able to, too.

so basically you want Matalas to have a gigantic budget to make “Cameo: The Movie”. I mean I get it he kinda opened the Pandora’s box by bringing back the full TNG cast for Picard S3 but there is no way they are gonna do a 2hr movie that just bounces from cameo to cameo and explain/wrap up every loose thread from Picard S1-3.

Lower Decks overlaps with Phase 1 and Phase 2, but I think it fits with the tone of Phase 2 better.

Section 31, even though it's coming out during Phase 2, is really a holdover from Phase 1.

I think the key difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2 of Kurtzman Trek is that Phase 1 wanted to ruffle feathers, while Phase 2 wants to go out of its way to unruffle them.

yeah, the phase/era we are in now does seem to be doing a lot more to cater to the die hard fans than Disco S1-2 and Picard S1.

 

[Lord Garth]

yeah, the phase/era we are in now does seem to be doing a lot more to cater to the die hard fans than Disco S1-2 and Picard S1.

I hadn't thought about the cut-off mark being 2020 but, the more I think about it, the better it works than 2022. PIC Season 1 ended 3/26/20, LD Season 1 started 8/6/20. Right in-between is the tonal separation and when what they were aiming for permanently changed.

 

[FederationHistorian]

so basically you want Matalas to have a gigantic budget to make “Cameo: The Movie”. I mean I get it he kinda opened the Pandora’s box by bringing back the full TNG cast for Picard S3 but there is no way they are gonna do a 2hr movie that just bounces from cameo to cameo and explain/wrap up every loose thread from Picard S1-3.

I am looking at it from Matalas’ perspective and what he wants to do.

There’s no point for a mass Voyager reunion film at this stage if they are ever going to do one. Too much uncertainty. But a couple of cameos could happen in a Legacy film. VOY cameos aren’t without precedent in Star Trek films.

DS9 is also unlikely. The best that could be hoped for is a Kira cameo and maybe a cameo of the station and Bajor.

I also don't think a Wesley appearance with Robin Lefler would be impossible. It would be another way to erase the bad taste of NEM.

The PIC writers chose to give Picard a son instead of building his relationship with Elnor. And it hard to ignore some sort of meeting between Elnor, Jack and Jason Vigo occurring, even though it should be left to television. And they also gave Picard a synth body that he has never really bothered to discuss.

While I can see the transwarp conduit being left for a later show (such as something based around the Ent-J a century later) and would even be content with it being the case, the PIC writers did say that it was being saved for later. That implies Legacy, though there is no rule that it has to be answered in Legacy. Frankly, I don’t care if the transwarp conduit is followed up on anytime soon. Not do I really care about the synth alliance. Not really important. I’d soon see a red wormhole appear over DS9 (readers of the DS9 Millennium novels will understand that reference). But I would understand why the PIC writers would focus on what they created.

The PIC writers also created the Confederation timeline and the pandemic screwed everything up. So its understandable if there are those that would be interested if Picard met General Riker.

With Patrick Stewart and Levar Burton pitching a final hurrah, it should be discussed what it would be like if Paramount went through with it.

A possible idea would be here. Its lowstakes and I think a lot of fans would like a lowstakes plot as well, as would Paramount because it would be mid-budget. Star Trek: The Big Goodbye does sounds right for a final TNG film. But let’s say Paramount need stakes and think reflecting on memories over a poker game is too low stakes for them. And a Tarantino film still isn’t getting a warm reception from the fanbase. There are better ideas out there. In which case, dig into the TNG well to find something that would fit TNG.

I do admit that if Armus was the antagonist, it would give Troi something to do and utilize her counseling skills and avoid the mind rape trope. And with the bluegills & “Conspiracy” parasites being the antagonists, it would give Beverly something to do. And with either antagonists, the final act being Picard and Riker doing the Star Trek version of the film Logan would work. that sound fresh and like a TNG film. It would just be a matter of figuring out how Data, Geordi, the La Forge daughters and Data’s children on Coppelius could be worked into the film. And working Seven of Nine into the film.

 

[F. King Daniel]

With Patrick Stewart and Levar Burton pitching a final hurrah, it should be discussed what it would be like if Paramount went through with it.

How many do they bloody well need?

 

[fireproof78]

How many do they bloody well need?

12.

 

[Dukhat]

How many do they bloody well need?

They got their final hurrah in PIC. They don't need anything further.

 

[Lord Garth]

I am looking at it from Matalas’ perspective and what he wants to do.

There’s no point for a mass Voyager reunion film at this stage if they are ever going to do one. Too much uncertainty. But a couple of cameos could happen in a Legacy film. VOY cameos aren’t without precedent in Star Trek films.

DS9 is also unlikely. The best that could be hoped for is a Kira cameo and maybe a cameo of the station and Bajor.

I also don't think a Wesley appearance with Robin Lefler would be impossible. It would be another way to erase the bad taste of NEM.

The PIC writers chose to give Picard a son instead of building his relationship with Elnor. And it hard to ignore some sort of meeting between Elnor, Jack and Jason Vigo occurring, even though it should be left to television. And they also gave Picard a synth body that he has never really bothered to discuss.

While I can see the transwarp conduit being left for a later show (such as something based around the Ent-J a century later) and would even be content with it being the case, the PIC writers did say that it was being saved for later. That implies Legacy, though there is no rule that it has to be answered in Legacy. Frankly, I don’t care if the transwarp conduit is followed up on anytime soon. Not do I really care about the synth alliance. Not really important. I’d soon see a red wormhole appear over DS9 (readers of the DS9 Millennium novels will understand that reference). But I would understand why the PIC writers would focus on what they created.

The PIC writers also created the Confederation timeline and the pandemic screwed everything up. So its understandable if there are those that would be interested if Picard met General Riker.

With Patrick Stewart and Levar Burton pitching a final hurrah, it should be discussed what it would be like if Paramount went through with it.

A possible idea would be here. Its lowstakes and I think a lot of fans would like a lowstakes plot as well, as would Paramount because it would be mid-budget. Star Trek: The Big Goodbye does sounds right for a final TNG film. But let’s say Paramount need stakes and think reflecting on memories over a poker game is too low stakes for them. And a Tarantino film still isn’t getting a warm reception from the fanbase. There are better ideas out there. In which case, dig into the TNG well to find something that would fit TNG.

I do admit that if Armus was the antagonist, it would give Troi something to do and utilize her counseling skills and avoid the mind rape trope. And with the bluegills & “Conspiracy” parasites being the antagonists, it would give Beverly something to do. And with either antagonists, the final act being Picard and Riker doing the Star Trek version of the film Logan would work. that sound fresh and like a TNG film. It would just be a matter of figuring out how Data, Geordi, the La Forge daughters and Data’s children on Coppelius could be worked into the film. And working Seven of Nine into the film.

The Conpiracy Bugs would be a good thing... for Legacy. Not TNG.

If we're to treat Picard Season 3 as the final TNG "film", then it ended with

Spoiler

them fighting the Borg, the biggest TNG enemy, and the Enterprise-D crew taking on a revenge-driven Borg Queen, and saving Picard's son. Then handing off their legacy to the next next generation.

I think TNG's story should end there. But Legacy's story, with the Enterprise-G, can continue. Not that I wouldn't expect to see TNG/VOY characters in Legacy (besides Seven of Nine), but I think it would be back to PIC Season 1 and 2 levels.

Yes, I left out DS9 because who are we kidding?

 

[Dukhat]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not sure how a show set on the Enterprise-G would be any different from a show set on the Discoprise, other than the horrible lighting and a bunch of old geezer guest stars.

 

[fireproof78]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not sure how a show set on the Enterprise-G would be any different from a show set on the Discoprise, other than the horrible lighting.

Well, you see, you get to visit the Klingon Empire and see Alexander, and then go see Cardassia and visit with Garak, then off to Fereginar and see Grand Nagus Rom, as well as Bajor and how Kira and the Prophets are getting along.

It's all about the traveling to familiar sites and appreciating them again and again. That is really the only purpose of a Legacy series is to provide that follow up to all the little story threads from 90s era Trek.

 

[Lord Garth]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not sure how a show set on the Enterprise-G would be any different from a show set on the Discoprise, other than the horrible lighting and a bunch of old geezer guest stars.

I'm assuming Legacy won't be as goofy (yes, I said it) and it would be serialized.

Picard only barely scratched the surface of the would-be Legacy characters there, and they could do more with the S1-S2 cast. I'd like to seem go further in-depth with the new characters.

Plus, elephant in the room: I'd prefer a series I know I'd look forward to (and watch) every week, rather than a series where I don't know if I'll care, and half the time I give it a 6 out of 10. Obviously someone with the opposite opinion of mine would think the reverse. So it would make sense why someone would disagree with me. Long way of my saying, "I just like PIC better than SNW!"

 

[Dukhat]

Well, you see, you get to visit the Klingon Empire and see Alexander, and then go see Cardassia and visit with Garak, then off to Fereginar and see Grand Nagus Rom, as well as Bajor and how Kira and the Prophets are getting along.

It's all about the traveling to familiar sites and appreciating them again and again. That is really the only purpose of a Legacy series is to provide that follow up to all the little story threads from 90s era Trek.

Why, so they can just kill them off? If PIC is any indication, some things should be better left alone.