Pre-TOS Science Vessel

[Quantum_Penguin]

Hi out there. This is my first time posting in the art forum. I hope you don't mind if I share a little project I've been working on...

bow

stern

Gryphon is an expeditionary vessel meant to travel in a loose fleet with others of its class, as well as support ships. Although it's slightly longer than NX at 228 meters long most of that is in the nacelles and its saucer has a much smaller diameter at 101 meters diameter verses ~130.

My thinking is that, with ships this small, rather than sending a single vessel to a region of space as is done in TOS, early Starfleet (circa 2180) would employ a "buddy system" and send several small specialized vessels to a region. Gryphon, for example, is equipped for studying terrestrial planets while one of her sister ships might specialize in ocean worlds, another in carbon-planets, and another for gas giants. If a ship finds something interesting in a system but doesn't have the facilities to study it, they can inform another ship in the fleet with the right equipment.

I just started modeling this in Sketchup about a month ago, but I've had it in my head and on paper for a couple years. It's still lacking a lot of detail but I've finished the major components and frozen the proportions. It started out as another alternative design for the NX (hence the catamaran hull) but it's sort of evolved into its own beast as I've refined it.

My inspiration for the conical superstructure on the saucer and the overall "flatness" were the old ironclads like Monitor and Merrimac, and that motif is carried through in the laser turrets on the bow. It also makes the ship visually primitive compared to later classes in the same way that ironclads look primitive compared to WWII battleships.

bow and bridge

I also wanted to address the scarcity of shuttlecraft on Enterprise by giving my ship much larger hangars and bigger shuttles. Those two large panels on the underside of the fairings have behind them large heavy lift vehicles which I'm designing in tandem.

ventral

I'm experimenting with atypical designs for various components, i.e. the bussard collectors are sort of like baffles and the deflector "dish" is made of nested rings like those behind the dish on the 1701.

More to come as I get the details down. Comments and criticism are welcome.

 

[JTK1]

I like the bow image and I think the ship looks good...the hull is a bit dark
but not bad......

 

[BolianAuthor]

Aye, I like it... keep working on it.

 

[Quantum_Penguin]

Thanks guys!

Also, JTK1, sorry about the hull. It is light gray but sketchup's shadows really darken it.

Here are a few detail pics with just shading.

Impulse drive and dorsal hatches

Bridge detail

Lower sensor dome and deflector

Nacelle endcap

 

[judexavier]

Nice ship! The curved contours, the flush bridge, impulse housing, especially like your take on the deflector...very nice.
The overall proportions you used give it a very sleek look as well.
Love to see higher res pics of it, perhaps some orthos?
Looking forward to this "build"

 

[Quantum_Penguin]

Thanks Judexavier. I was a bit frightened that it still looked clunky but it seems I found the right balance.

As for higher resolution pictures, I'm not sure but it seems photobucket re-sizes and blurs everything. I've put everything on my flickr account* and it seems to work better, but if anyone could suggest a better rendering program or free photo site I'd be grateful.

And, as requested, here are the current orthos:
*Click on the picture once and then "View All Sizes" in the upper right to get the largest view.

Dorsal Plan

Ventral Plan

Forward elevation

Aft elevation

Port elevation


And the day's progress...

RCS quad location

RCS quad detail

gangway airlock and door labels

laser turret retracted and ready to fire

The Bridge

overview

inside

looking forward

CONN and astrogator

captain's chair

I'm especially interested in opinions on the RCS quads. I'm not sure yet if I should leave them as is or if I should add more relief to them. Also, I'd like to know what people think about the chairs. I tried to make them a little more interesting than the breakfast set chairs from TOS but I'm afraid I might have over designed them.

 

[The Axeman]

I like it, very nice work. The RCS quads make a lot of sense, but look more Space 1999 than Star Trek. They look well thought out and realistic, but maybe not Trek. The chairs caught my eye, nice and not too over engineered. They actually look a little late 60's and suit it a treat. I like the doorways and dock as well, nicely done.

The only bit I'm not too thrilled with is the actual lower hull with the sensor on it. I cant be sure if it's too short or too stubby or two round or whatever, but something about its proportions bug me.

 

[sojourner]

As for higher resolution pictures, I'm not sure but it seems photobucket re-sizes and blurs everything. I've put everything on my flickr account* and it seems to work better, but if anyone could suggest a better rendering program or free photo site I'd be grateful.

You just need to change the upload settings in photobucket. If you use a file format with a good compression such as .png you can easily get very large images uploaded.

 

[publiusr]

It is a great design. I never thought that something with three secondary hulls would work, but the triangular placement ties it all together.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It is a great design. I never thought that something with three secondary hulls would work, but the triangular placement ties it all together.

It's a good intermediate between the NX-01 and TOS, still having those 2 pylons(?) like the NX.


The square rim on the saucer gives it a good retro look.

Nice looking ship.

 

[Kaiser]

Very awesome Pre-TOS era design

 

[Finngle Bells]

I love it. I can see it zipping among the stars with the Kelvin

 

[Quantum_Penguin]

You just need to change the upload settings in photobucket. If you use a file format with a good compression such as .png you can easily get very large images uploaded.

Thanks, I've re-uploaded higher res versions of the earlier pics.

Gryphon Beautyshots

I like it, very nice work. The RCS quads make a lot of sense, but look more Space 1999 than Star Trek. They look well thought out and realistic, but maybe not Trek. The chairs caught my eye, nice and not too over engineered. They actually look a little late 60's and suit it a treat. I like the doorways and dock as well, nicely done.

The only bit I'm not too thrilled with is the actual lower hull with the sensor on it. I cant be sure if it's too short or too stubby or two round or whatever, but something about its proportions bug me.

I know what you mean about the deflector pod. Somehow it "grew" in girth when I went from paper to 3D model. I might revise it when I do a higher poly version of the ship.

And thank you for your advice about the RCS thrusters. I did, in fact, base them on the Apollo LM thrusters (basically I submerged the nozzles), which is what the Eagle transporter thrusters are based on. I am rather partial to the curved design but I've produced a couple variations:

...here she comes, Miss, RCS Thruster...
Do a barrel roll!
Boxy Cleopatra 1 and 2
Why just do the thrusters, why not the whole Lunar Module?

Here's a picture demonstrating the modularity of the chairs

I've also added rail-mounted stations for the department heads.

As you can see, I've carried over the idea of the department heads facing the captain from Enterprise, but they also have work spaces behind for subordinates. Gryphon's bridge is much more like five bridges with the command module as the center of activity while each department quietly does its own thing until the captain's attention is needed.

 

[Quantum_Penguin]

Okay, I've been working on the interior a lot lately and I've got the basics down for the tactical and science stations. Here's my interpretation of a couple of old TOS instruments:

The popup tactical scanner which will be moved to the helm by the time of TOS:

Overview 1
Overview 2
Range to target...

And a more clunky rendition of Spock's famous scanner/eyestrain generator:

Overview 1
Overview 2
Look into the light...

 

[publiusr]

Very nice designs. It feels like a home, as a good bridge should.

 

[Quantum_Penguin]

Okay, I've been working a little more on the interior and I've finally blocked out the cargo sections and the ship's auxiliary craft.

Aux craft overview

The big thing looming back there is the Horus-class heavy lift vehicle while the craft in the foreground is the Type II personnel shuttle, the successor to the NX's shuttlepod. Also, please excuse the sharpness of Horus' fuselage, she's still a work in progress.


The carried craft are much more important for Gryphon because the transporter is still considered too unreliable for routine use (whether the unreliability is in the system itself or the courage of its users is a subject of some debate).

Type II three quarters
Type II rear hatch with Google's Sang for scale

The Type II is more in line with the Galileo/type F shuttle craft and so can carry a landing party of up to seven or a modest amount of cargo. The rear loading hatch will eventually have an extendable winch that can be used for airborne assault or rescue operations.

It is dwarfed however by its larger cousin, the Horus, which is sort of an ancestor to the Runabout.

Cockpit with Sang for scale

Rear hatch

Upper hatch

Horus was inspired most obviously by super-heavy cargo planes like Hughes' Hercules X-1 (aka "Spruce Goose") and the Miriya Kossack, but also has elements fromthe Space Shuttle and, again, Jefferies' Galileo. In fact, Horus is so large (25 meter fuselage, 30 meters from nose to nacelle), it can easily recover a broken down Type II and return it to the ship for repair. In addition, the rear bay can hold mission modules, similar in concept to the Danube class. This is part of her most important role as an extension of Gryphon. If Gryphon detects an interesting phenomenon but can't leave its current position, Horus can travel months ahead and perform research until the mothership catches up.

So you might be asking, how can something this large fit in the fairings? For a while I was stumped and tried several solutions, until I realized the simplest thing was to have the wings telescope inwards and the nacelles slide forwards...

Scwewy, ain't it?

This way the wingspan goes from almost 25 to about 18 meters and the length from 30 to 25 meters.

Flight and stowed modes

And this is where it all has to fit:

Overview

Looking aft

The upper bay where the Type II's land, take off, and cargo is transferred between the forward and rear bays. It is normally not pressurized and cargo operations are handled by robotic cargo trams and utility arms (which I have yet to design).

What is that hatch in the floor for? It conceals a very big secret:

Horus in her lower bay

Via a false floor, the upper bay may open into the lower bay. My intention is that Horus's docking cradle will raise her up slightly to enable loading from the front through a rising nose. Before or after cargo loading the upper bay can pressurized and the crew may board through the upper docking hatch. This way they don't have to enter through the side ingress/egress doors.

Aft of the upper bay is a small cargo handling area and repair shop for the shuttles.

Shuttle maintenance bay

Below that is a large cargo bay with a conveniently Horus-shaped docking collar for loading large cargo and mission modules.

Lower cargo bay

Eventually there will be TMP-esque cargo modules mounted in the walls and another robotic crane system for loading them. Normally this bay is serviced by Horus exclusively since the saucer cargo bays carry immediate demand consumables in barrels and on small palettes more appropriate to the Type II's.

And yes, the thing impinging upon the bay is the nacelle pylon. Everything fits, but only just

Stay tuned for the finished cargo bay and bridge...

 

[The Axeman]

While I'm loving all the detail and design fun, I'm not really getting the Horus and the thinking behind it. You are using up valuable space on your science vessel to hold a rather large cargo shuttle, but for what reason? You would only need a large cargo transfer vehicle if you were a large cargo ship working from relatively unprepared ports out of the frontier, and it certainly wouldn't need warp nacelles to do that job.

If you're a science vessel you need space for labs, probes, supplies, instrumentation, etc and not a truck. The space the Horus takes up would allow the carrying of supplies to keep the vessel out for several months longer, a much more efficient use of space. Your design hiding the Horus in the floor compartment also effectively neutralises any use of the hangar above, since to deploy the Horus would mean clearing it completely. You could not use it for stores and if you had shuttles in it you'd need to move all of them out to get your cargo ship out, along with anything else that cant handle hard vacuum.

Say I'm the designer of a science ship and I went to the proposed Captain and said "You have a choice. Either you can have a small, warp capable cargo ship crammed aboard which will limit your use of the shuttlebay, or an additional 3000 cubic meters of storage space and a large shuttlebay you can use at any time to store lots of different shuttles." What do you think the Captain would say?

 

[publiusr]

Well, sometimes you need two vehicles for a search, and this is the same concept as having the two Orion capsules sent to asteroids, so an apollo 13 type salvage mission using two hulls might make sense. A large starship has self enclosed engines, rather like a zeppelin, where you can repair in flight. Small craft can carry that shuttle or other stores. Options are always a good thing.

 

[sojourner]

^um, what? Options are a good thing. One overly large cargo shuttle limits your options as Axeman explained. This has already been described as a science vessel. An "apollo 13 type salvage mission" is outside of that scope.

 

[The Axeman]

I fear you are falling into the same trap that a lot of people do with Federation ships, and are trying to design a ship that will do absolutely everything. You are making a science vessel, not a combined battleship, cargo hauler, hospital ship and rescue vessel.

Design it to be the best science vessel it can be, and dont think too much about anything else it might one day need to do in an emergency. It definately doesn't need a big cargo shuttle, particularly one which compromises your main shuttlebay even when stored. For the once or twice you might find a use for it, you give up storage space and many smaller shuttlecraft you would find useful every mission.