Post TMP novels

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by EnriqueH, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. EnriqueH

    EnriqueH Commodore Commodore

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    I’ll probably reread Ex Machina. But what other good post TMP novels are there?
     
  2. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Rules of Engagement by Peter Morwood
     
  3. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    Serpents Amongst The Ruins by David R. George III
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if I'd really call Serpents a post-TMP book. It is after TMP, but usually when people use that phrase, they mean books set between The Motion Picture and Wrath of Khan.
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Christopher's followup novels to "Ex Machina" continue the adventures of the cast of aliens and humanoids he extrapolated from TMP. Check out "Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again", "Department of Temporal Investigations: Forgotten History" and the just-released "The Higher Frontier" (also on unabridged audio).
     
  6. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    I really couldn’t think of any other post TMP books, unless I suggested the “New Earth” mini-series, which I think most people agree ran out of gas after book 2 of the 6 book series.

    And even though it’s after TMP, “The Prometheus Design” is not a good book at all, only average at best.

    https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos...hak-and-myrna-culbreath-review-thread.287549/
     
  7. Desert Kris

    Desert Kris Captain Captain

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    There's always Home is the Hunter, which is set shortly after TMP. I had a copy and read it when I was much younger. I wonder if I would appreciate it more if I read it nowadays. I did like the idea of a couple of the characters finding themselves in historical eras that are all about their heiritage. The blog reviewer for Deep Space Spines gave it a really good review. Sulu has this really memorable line at one point, where he tells someone, "You are cordially invited to disembowel yourself" or something like that. At least, the line stuck with me, anyway.

    I've heard good things about Howard Weinstein's The Better Man.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, it's set some time after TMP. For some reason, the Historian's Notes in most post-TMP novels always used to default to "shortly after" TMP even when there was nothing in the text to suggest how soon after it was, and sometimes even when it was clearly much later, as with the New Earth miniseries.
     
  9. Desert Kris

    Desert Kris Captain Captain

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    It may be that my recollection of it isn't quite strong. I took it more literally back then, using the uniforms on the cover as visual cues in my mind's eye, as much as the Historian's Note.

    I like the Historians Notes, but I've sometimes felt in the past that many of them could make a more clear distinction. There's no substitute for reading the actual book, but I've sometimes wondered if it would make a difference for understanding and approaching a book if some of those Notes categorized a book as either post-TMP, or pre-TWoK. Maybe that distinction doesn't matter to a broad-minded ST fan.
     
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Diane Duane's The Wounded Sky and My Enemy, My Ally are set pre-TMP but on a clearly refitted Enterprise. I believe the idea then was to ignore a few lines in TMP and pretend there had been a second 5-year mission before TMP.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not really -- some may have assumed that, but others just ignored the whole 5-year mission concept (it was only in the opening narration, after all, never mentioned in-story until TMP and later VGR and Kelvin) and had the mission be open-ended. Or they took the same kind of timeless approach as M*A*S*H, an 11-year series about a 3-year war.

    Some years back on this forum, in the thread "The Continuity of Days Gone By," I tried to put together a roughly consistent timeline for the '80s-continuity books, and I used the "second 5-year mission" idea as a way of accounting for those books that were clearly pre-TOS but also clearly multiple years after later TOS episodes. In retrospect, I fear that may have given some people the wrong impression that the writers at the time were intentionally using that model. But no, it's just an attempt after the fact to make sense of the ambiguous chronology of those books. I don't think any '80s novel ever actually, overtly stated that there was a second 5-year mission. They just had the mission go on as long as they needed it to. As far as I know, the only place I ever saw the "second 5YM" concept discussed was in fan writings. If any of the novelists were thinking along those lines, there's no proof of it in the text.
     
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  12. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I prefer to treat the Rihannsu-'verse novels as set post-TMP. But that's me.
     
  13. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't Diane Duane, or the editors, eventually play around with where in the timeline some of the Rihannsu books take place when they released the Bloodwing Voyages omnibus?
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes. Well, initially, when Swordhunt was written (and released as two volumes), it was retconned to put everything in a clearly TOS-era time frame. But then when Bloodwing Voyages and The Empty Chair came out, they reworked it the other to put everything unambiguously post-TMP -- even though that clashes with The Wounded Sky and Spock's World which were not so adjusted. (Spock's World is post-TMP, but it implies that TMP was recent.)
     
  15. Leto_II

    Leto_II Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Duane also rewrote a fair number of passages in My Enemy, My Ally to be post-ST:TMP-compatible in that omnibus as well -- having just re-read that particular one, one that immediately stuck out at me from the original version was her now having Dr. Christine Chapel taking a larger role in the story (and not being away working on her medical degree prior to The Motion Picture, as occurred in the 1984 incarnation of the novel). And other changes, to boot.
     
  16. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think you meant to write "pre-TMP" here, @Christopher. :)
     
  17. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Did she just name swap with Nurse Lia Burke? She was an original character added by Duane for this book, the game ("Kobayashi Alternative") and one of the DC Comics. (pic higher in thread).
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There was no expansion of Chapel's role. Chapel was not away during ME,MA; Lia Burke was just sharing the workload of being head nurse so Chapel could have more time to work on her dissertation. The original passage, deleted in The Bloodwing Voyages, has Lia saying that "even for two nurses, there's still plenty to do" in sickbay because of the work McCoy gives them when he's nervous. According to the notes I made at the time, the only other Chapel-related change in TBV beyond that single paragraph is the removal of another mention of her doctoral dissertation in Swordhunt.

    Most of the changes in TBV are simply textual and stylistic tweaks. There are only a few significant alterations in content. In ME,MA, aside from a few slight tweaks to Sulu and Uhura's ranks and a line about uniform colors, the only major change other than the Chapel passage is that the references to the Intrepid are altered for improved consistency with canon and the backstory established for it in later books. My notes list no changes of content in The Romulan Way, merely stylistic changes, e.g. decapitalizing a lot of words capitalized in the original like "the Journey" and "the Forty," and standardizing the references to "Powers" and "Elements" in Rihannsu theology to just "Elements." The only significant non-stylistic changes in Swordhunt are that Uhura's rank is adjusted to lieutenant commander, and references to Terise Haleakala-LoBrutto as a lieutenant are corrected. There are no substantial alterations to the story in any of the books.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  19. Leto_II

    Leto_II Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^ Although I think there was some added/modified material (it might’ve been a rewritten section) expanding Chapel’s involvement in how Kirk and Ael manage to isolate her son’s conspirators when they take over the ship (my memory has it being Lia Burke or someone else in the original version of this event).

    Something about her suggesting locking in on those arm-injected isotopes, which would allow them to narrow down their sensor-sweeps to that particular group — I remember pulling up the Google Books version a couple months back and doing a cross-comparison, but maybe I’m misremembering here.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, that was always Chapel. I checked my first-printing copy, and here's the Google Books page:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=p...DGcQuwUwAXoECAAQBw#v=snippet&q=chapel&f=false


    Here's my entire detailed list of changes that I made at the time, including some instances of mistakes that were not fixed and new ones that were introduced:

    Global:

    Rihannsu/Vulcan speech is italicized instead of Roman (and de-italicized in dialogue heard over the comm)

    Comm dialogue italicized

    Many terms decapitalized (Galaxy, Warbird, Universe, rank titles, room/department titles, etc.), but Element names capitalized (mostly)


    My Enemy, My Ally:

    Global:

    Accent removed from “ch’Ríhan” (for consistency with later books)

    Ch. 1:

    “Eisn” misspelled as “Eisen” on p. 10

    Ch. 2:

    Stardate changed in Kirk’s first log entry (though not in subsequent Starfleet orders)

    Lia Burke’s references to Chapel pursuing doctorate deleted, subsequent lines of paragraph revised to accommodate it

    Slight punctuation changes: “Goodnight, Captain”s and equivalent changed to “Goodnight, Captain’s” (less correct)

    Computer’s line “That didn’t make sense” changed to “That did not make sense;” “dear” removed from Kirk’s reply

    Ch. 3:

    Missing italics added on Ael’s thoughts and ship name

    Ch. 4:

    Time references pertaining to Intrepid destruction/replacement moved back several years (for consistency with later books)

    Length of Academy matriculation changed from three years to four

    Intrepid removed from reference to Suvuk during Klingon war (anachronistic)

    Ch. 5:

    “extreme displeasure” mistakenly rendered “extreme pleasure” on p. 61

    Ch. 6:

    “trickling” misspelled as “tickling” on first page

    Ch. 7-8:

    various typos fixed

    Ch. 9:

    “breathe” misspelled as “breath” on p. 93

    Ch. 10:

    “Zone” replaced with “border” on p. 109

    Ch. 11:

    “Mz. Kerasus” replaced with “Lieutenant Kerasus”

    References to Uhura’s rank changed to “Lieutenant Commander” or excised (&ff)

    Ch. 12:

    Error not corrected: Aidoann calls Bloodwing by true name over open comm instead of Cuirass


    Ch. 13:

    “Rihannsu” in Kirk’s dialogue replaced with “Romulan” on p. 161

    Typo: “ch’Rhian” on p. 162

    “whites” (battle fatigue) changed to “grays” (&ff)

    Ch. 14:

    Two consecutive Uhura paragraphs (one sentence each) combined into one

    Ch. 15:

    “Starfleet green and blue and orange” replaced w/ “Starfleet uniforms” on p. 192 (though other such color references remain)

    “Sopek” typo corrected to “Sobek”

    “Basic” deleted from “most precise Basic word” on p. 195

    Ch. 18:

    “dinna” changed to “don’t” on p. 218

    “stared” de-italicized on p. 221

    “Mz.” replaced w/ rank titles in two places

    “Doctor McCoy” changed to “McCoy” on p. 225

    “How!” changed to “How?” on last page

    Ch. 19:

    Stardate changed on log entry

    “Rihaul has speculated that this has to do...” incorrectly changed to “had to do”

    Scott’s name added to commendations, Sulu’s rank changed (Uhura, Chekov already have movie ranks, suggesting Uhura was promoted since Ch. 11), ranks spelled out

    Ch. 20:

    “to climb the hill” changed to “to climb” on p. 238

    Missing opening quote restored on last page


    The Romulan Way:

    Global:

    Many words originally treated as proper names are decapitalized: “Travelers,” “the Argument,” “the Flight,” “the Journey,” “the Archive,” “in Meeting,” “Settlement,” “the Forty,” “Chambers,” “Ships” and “Shipside,” “North Continent” and other continent names, “Intelligence,” “Net,” “Contributor” and “Contribution,” “House” (in the chamber-of-gov’t sense, not the family/social unit sense)

    “Haleakala” changed to “Haleakala-LoBrutto”

    All references to “Powers” or “Powers and Elements” replaced with “Elements”

    “life forms” hyphenated

    Foreword:

    “Eight years of life” changed to “Over eight years of life” on first page

    Ch. 1:

    “dressed in the boots” becomes “dressed in boots” on p. 254

    hyphen removed from yhfi-ss’ue on p. 258

    “with a few exceptions” becomes “with few exceptions” on p. 265

    Ch. 2:

    “Outside” decapitalized on p. 272

    “sehlats” italicized on p. 273


    “lightyears” hyphenated on p. 274, “lightweeks” hyph. on p. 275

    Ch. 3:

    “first class” hyphenated & USS changed to U.S.S. on p. 281

    “But they were much closer” becomes “They were...” on p. 283; “the Command bridge” becomes “the bridge” on same page

    “doctor” capitalized on p. 285

    “indented for by” becomes “intended for” on p. 289

    “This way up” changed to small caps w/o quotes on p. 293

    error “Vega bridge” (for “Vega’s bridge”) not corrected on p. 295

    “sister’s daughter’s” hyphenated and “mhnei’sahe” typo fixed on p. 295

    “woman officers” becomes “women officers” on p. 300

    “torchieres” becomes “torchères” on p. 301

    Ch. 4:

    erroneous comma added after “construction” on p. 308

    Ch. 5:

    “Ms.” changed to “Commander” on p. 316

    “it’s neither LoBrutto nor hyphenated” changed to “it is hyphenated” on p. 318

    Ch. 6:

    error “88s” (for “88's”) not corrected on p. 332; error “wisest decisions” not corrected on p. 334

    “Iruhe” corrected to “Iruh” on p. 334

    “Ships” and “East Continent” decapitalized

    Ch. 8:

    Adj. phrase “North-Continent” dehyphenated (and decapitalized) on p. 360

    comma splices not corrected on pp. 363, 366

    Ch. 9:

    Arrhae’s thoughts “Oh no. Oh Elements...” italicized on p. 379

    Ch. 10:

    “lightyears” hyphenated on p. 383; on same page, error “and that way” (for “and that was”) not corrected

    “ch’Havranha” and “ch’Havranssu” become “Havranha” and “Havranssu” (not “Havrannsu”?) on p. 388 (also in Glossary)

    Ch. 11:

    “Lieutenant-Commander” dehyphenated on p. 394; “life form” hyphenated on p. 395

    “before we” changed to “before they” on p. 401

    second question mark removed from “Perry??” on p. 403; “Terise” becomes “Commander” on same page (in a context where “Commander” works better)

    Ch. 12:

    “the War” decapitalized on p. 411

    “no less than” (should be “no fewer than”) not corrected on p. 411

    Ch. 14:

    apostrophe removed from “damn’Yankee” on p. 432

    Ch. 15:

    “Command-gold shirt” becomes “command uniform” on p. 444



    Glossary:

    moved to end; “lieutenant-commander” dehyphenated in erei’riov entry on p. 760



    Swordhunt/Honor Blade:

    Global:

    Merged into one book

    Editor’s note (explaining continuity discrepancy) removed

    Many colons, some semicolons changed to commas, periods or dashes; many paragraph-ending dashes replaced with periods

    Many occurrences of “which” replaced with “that”

    More decapitalizations: “Service,” “Presidium,” “Master Engineer,”“Thought Admiral,” “Treaty,” “Intel,” “Observing Group,” “Talents,” “the Moon”

    Uhura’s rank changed from “Lieutenant” to “Lieutenant Commander” or “Commander,” replaced with “Uhura,” or simply expunged

    “workmen” becomes “workers”; “crewman/crewmen” becomes “crew,” “crewpeople,” “crewmember,” etc.

    “senator(s)” and “praetor(s)” capitalized (!) in various places, even when not in direct address (contradicting practice with all other titles); yet Rihannsu equivalents Deihu and Fvillha decapitalized

    Ch. 1:

    “In the days following that day” changed to “In the weeks...” on p. 470

    erroneous “ceiling, roof,” not corrected on p. 480

    reference to Klingon “legislature” becomes “High Council” on p. 484

    sardonic quotes on “ ‘delivery’ ” and “ ‘package’ ” deleted on p. 487

    Ch. 2:

    Rihannsu mispronunciations “Uuhura” and “MakKhoi” corrected to “Uhura” and “McCoy”

    “Eighteen” becomes “18" on p. 501

    “communication which” becomes “communication, which” on p. 507 (perhaps erroneously)

    Ch. 3:

    error “at one removed” (for “at one remove”) not fixed on p. 520

    erroneous use of “triumvirate” fixed to “triumvir,” and subsequent use of “triumvir” changed to “triumvirate” on p. 521

    multiple uses of “Senator” and “Praetor” in conversation replaced with “deihu” and “fvillha

    “come to Senate” becomes “come to the Senate” on p. 525

    sentence ending “are they,” becomes “are they?” on p. 530

    error “cor-ona” fixed on p. 535; on same page, error “Madain” fixed to “Madail” and line “get out of there!” romanized

    Ch. 4:

    error “The two scowling...” (no main verb for sentence) not corrected on p. 543

    “house(s)” (Klingon) capitalized (to match pattern with Rihannsu)

    “tenday and a half” becomes “two weeks” on p. 545

    “they are afraid!--” loses exclamation point on p. 546


    “Emperor” becomes “chancellor”

    “quadrant” becomes “sector” on p. 547; typo “Khemren” (for “K’hemren”) fixed on same page

    sentence ending “didn’t they,” becomes “didn’t they?” on p. 551

    “--And on the other hand” loses dash on p. 563

    “ ‘package’ ” loses quotes on p. 564 (also in Ch. 8)

    Ch. 5:

    colon after “not to extremes” changed to comma on p. 572, creating comma splice error

    “that star again?...” loses ellipsis on p. 574

    “his other praetors” becomes “the other Praetors” on p. 576

    both “MakKhoi” and “McCoy” changed to “Mak’khoi” on pp. 578ff

    “others in the other colony worlds” becomes “those in the other colony worlds” on p. 586

    “Elements themselves” becomes “Elements Themselves” and “fire of hearts” becomes “Fire of hearts” on p. 591

    “Powers” becomes “Elements” on p. 597

    redundant “to produce” removed from “to induce to produce ion storms” on p. 600

    “the simplest recommendation” becomes “my simplest recommendation” and “looked at Jim” becomes “looked at him” on p. 603

    “matter and energy in the ‘ylem’ ” becomes erroneous “matter and energy or the ‘ylem’ ” on p. 608

    Ch. 6:

    “not so very long ago” (in reference to “Doomsday Machine”) deleted on p. 610

    missing comma not added to “Ddoya looked up at them his stolid face...” on p. 633

    “Why did we walk away?” italicized on p. 646; “would that I had died instead of him!” italicized on p. 650

    Ch. 7:

    “Delta” decapitalized on p. 655 (to match usual star-name convention in these books)

    error “that the best that had been done” fixed to “that the best had been done” on p. 666

    “starship” capitalized before “Intrepid” on p. 668

    Ch. 8:

    poem romanized on p. 683

    references to “Lieutenant Haleakala-LoBrutto” or “Lieutenant LoBrutto” corrected to “Lieutenant-Commander Haleakala-LoBrutto” or “the lieutenant commander” (also in Ch. 9)

    “ship-clans” capitalized to “Ship-clans”

    That had an effect” romanized on p. 694

    entire passage “especially when the sixth subscreen finally came to life and started spilling text down itself” deleted (seems to contradict later sentence in paragraph, but is consistent with later paragraphs)

    quote from Arthurian text romanized on p. 712

    Ch. 9:

    italicized comm message changed to all-caps as in previous books on pp. 721-2 and pp. 755-6

    quotes removed from “ ‘hot’ ” on p. 724

    “mornmeal” becomes “firstmeal” on p. 728


    “farmer Gurrhim” becomes “Farmer Gurri” on p. 730 (to match earlier usage, but seems out of character for speaker)

    “Ms.” cut before “Nyarla” on p. 731

    reference to Chapel’s doctoral dissertation deleted on p. 736

    “point two C” becomes “point two c” on p. 739

    “matter/antimatter” becomes “matter-antimatter” (matching other usage) on p. 742

    “OK” becomes “okay” on pp. 748-50

    most warp factors dropped by one (nine to eight, ten to nine, eleven to ten) on pp. 745-53, even though a reference to warp thirteen (and previous references to warp eleven) are retained

    ‘aliens’ becomes “aliens” on p. 756